light distance question

Thorhax

Well-Known Member
i have 4 awesome panels (2 sgs160s and 2 DIY cree13/vero18 panels)
they each use about 160watts of power

i was wondering if i could just have all the lights up in the top of my tent rather than having them 15-20 inches from each canopy.

i figure with all the reflective sides and sources of light i wouldn't need the lights so close? but i do not want to take away from yield. any info would be great
 

FrozenChozen

Well-Known Member

Thorhax

Well-Known Member
And this isn't from one point source. This is from many sources spread equally over the whole tent.
 

coolbreez1

Well-Known Member
I was asking this same question yesterday, because I came across some information about green houses from Arizona State University talking about diffusive glass or clear glass. The clear glass performed worse then the glass that defused the light, because if you think about the natural light, a large amount of what you are getting has been defused through various mediums, atmosphere, clouds, reflecting off other plants... Point being, a large percentage of the light is not from a single point source such as a light. But how does that directly relate to this?

As Frozen points out, you face the inverse square rule relative to energy dissipation, however, that does not actually directly apply in the case of a well designed grow area. A well designed grow are is a light trap, light may defuse based on inverse square law, however, it will still be limited in diffusion by the SIZE of the space, and the REFLECTIVE properties of the surfaces. For example, a flat white paints can reflect upwards of 97% of the light back. I would argue that if the grow space is a light trip, your light will defuse, and then hit the 97% reflective white surface and lose 3% of its energy, but the light wont actually be dissipated by passing through the space or air. So diffusion will happen, but its not a loss unless it is hitting poorly reflective surfaces, in fact, I would forward that it might even be more effective, because in the case study of the green houses, the gains in plant size were not at the top of the plant but deeper in side, the plants were bushier and fuller.

All this being said, I have not experimented with this, but I think as long as you go nuts with the none toxic flat white paints you will get better light distribution by placing the lights at a reasonable distance and letting the reflective surfaces do there thing to evenly distribute the light.
 
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churchhaze

Well-Known Member
The datasheet for the cobs you're using show the output distribution pattern chart, which is basically the same for all cobs, a 60 degree angle rotated around a central axis (120 degree cone).

The center axis of the cone is 100% relative intensity, while 60 degrees out from the center is 50% relative intensity.

Anything in that 50% circle cross section where the cone meets the canopy is considered part of the appreciable output. If you move the lights farther away, the circle gets bigger.
 
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SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
The clear glass performed worse then the glass that defused the light
Did they say what kind of plants they were testing this on? Full sun plants are used to a very small bright point of light, the sun of course. But shade loving plants are used to getting diffused light under the canopy or in shady areas.

a flat white paints can reflect upwards of 97% of the light back
It may be true that flat white can reflect a very large portion of the light, but the problem is it reflects most of it in the wrong direction. Flat white by definition scatters the light every which way. I do agree using it is a worthwhile thing to do, but only a small percentage of the reflected light will reach the canopy and drive photosynthesis so it may be best to rely on reflection as little as possible.

So Thorax IMO you should definitely try to keep the lights as low as possible and maintain as even a spread as possible.
 
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coolbreez1

Well-Known Member
I don't recall the plant used, you can read the information for your self, it has a bunch of other stuff about LEDs as well.

https://ag.arizona.edu/ceac/sites/ag.arizona.edu.ceac/files/10 R. Hernandez Plant Lighting.pdf

You say the light will bounce in the wrong direction, however, with only 3% loss, you could afford a few bounces. I would add, obviously, if you a ridiculously large space relative to the size of the plants, then, yes, much of the light will just bounce around uselessly and dissipate after 33 bounces. But most people are trying to maximize the size of there plants in a constrained space, so there should not be insane amounts of room.

My thoughts on the matter were derived from the fact that with LEDs you can place plants much closer to the light source without damaging them, due to less heat generation, but that this might not be the best path. One could hang the LED 3 inches above the plant and move it up each day. I mostly meant to suggest that I don't think an extreme path of action light super close lights and constant moving will produce a meaningful gain, and would likely be less effective then otherwise.

However, I think doing as Church suggests and then placing them just a bit higher then the calculation projects, would be the most effect course of action.
 
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