Cannasutraorganics
Well-Known Member
Defoliate at the..............Yep, but better than another one of those "am flowering, when do I defoliate?" threads.
....with every new crop of noobs.
"Plants Need Sleep"
- Thread starter bryleetch
- Start date
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
I heard plants like music. Has anyone tried this?
TheYokel
Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben
Well-Known Member
I am a firm believer that during the night cycle cannabis produces not only foliage but a lot of roots. A 15F drop in temp is essential. I've always vegged using a 20/4 photoperiod trying to find the light saturation points of my plants and then backing off a tad.
It's only natural......
It's only natural......
MachiavellI420
Member
in my opinion the plant has evolved for 1000's of years. and for thousands of years we have had a day time and a night time. might as well not fix what isn't broken. saves on electricity anyways. 
GrowerGoneWild
Well-Known Member
Plants dont sleep.. so they dont need "sleep". Or do they _need_ dark in veg to complete metabolic cycles.
Providing light is a requirement, how long you turn it off.. is debatable. What about autoflowers?.. What about equatorial sativas.. etc, Polyhybrids need more or less off time?... sheesh.
The difference between 18/6 24/0 is minor, Ive been staging my clones out of 24/0 to 18/6 and really the difference is slight. I've put out hundreds of clones under 24/0 that will easily rootbound a solo cup in 10-14 days. 24/0 makes for less of a headache for me, and frees up lots of space.
Providing light is a requirement, how long you turn it off.. is debatable. What about autoflowers?.. What about equatorial sativas.. etc, Polyhybrids need more or less off time?... sheesh.
The difference between 18/6 24/0 is minor, Ive been staging my clones out of 24/0 to 18/6 and really the difference is slight. I've put out hundreds of clones under 24/0 that will easily rootbound a solo cup in 10-14 days. 24/0 makes for less of a headache for me, and frees up lots of space.
Have you guys considered far red (730nm) to put the plants to sleep (into a state that takes two hours to reach) faster? I read some posts by CaptainMorgan that he does this. Something about how 5-10 minutes exposure before lights out lets you run your lights longer because they don't need 2 hours of darkness to reach that state.
Here's some links I saved for when I intended to revisit the topic. The light is called a "Flower Initiator." It seems related to this topic.
- https://www.rollitup.org/t/flowering-with-cree-bulbs.656542/page-9#post-9513350
- https://www.rollitup.org/t/flowering-with-cree-bulbs.656542/page-3#post-9284124
- https://www.rollitup.org/t/flowering-with-cree-bulbs.656542/page-12#post-9573750
- https://www.rollitup.org/t/flowering-with-cree-bulbs.656542/page-14#post-9611211
bryleetch
Well-Known Member
So you guys realize this wasn't intended to be another debate over what photoperiod to use, right? I just wanted to make sure people, who weren't the most knowledgeable with plant physiology, had some proper background information before continually make claims on here like "plants need sleep". So far everyone on this thread is very knowledgeable and clearly aware of those simple plant mechanics I wanted to get across. Regardless there's been a lot of good info compiled here and if there's one thing anyone gets out of this is that growing is a lot like skinning a cat....
bryleetch
Well-Known Member
Again, I wouldn't say that this is causing them to "sleep", its really just a misnomer.
Far red light converts the phytochrome Pfr to an inactive form called Pr. Darkness also converts this Pfr to the inactive form Pr but it takes longer like you said. So by giving exposure to far red light, you're speeding up the conversion.
Red light, which unfiltered sunlight is rich in, converts the Pr back to an active form known as Pfr. Pr slows growth, Pfr promotes growth
"Plants regulate photoperiodism by measuring the Pfr/Pr ratio at dawn, which then stimulates physiological processes such as flowering, setting winter buds, and vegetative growth." So with the "flower initiator" you're just raising the Pr levels faster and getting a head start on that conversion, which allows for less required darkness to get the proper Pfr/Pr ratio to trigger flowering.
So as you can see the far red light doesn't put the plant to sleep faster it just jump starts a conversion process, that naturally happens slower during darkness. There's way more to know about this topic than what I've put here, if anyone is interested here's the link.
https://www.boundless.com/biology/textbooks/boundless-biology-textbook/plant-form-and-physiology-30/plant-sensory-systems-and-responses-184/the-phytochrome-system-and-red-light-response-701-11926/
TheChemist77
Well-Known Member
i believe i get better yields w/ music playing softly.. but not getting into that and really dont have solid proof..anyways i have a question..i have 2 veg rooms, 1 for plants getting 18/6 in veg and another small area with 24/0 for clones,, are u guys saying that plants would root faster under the 18/6 sced?? ive always cloned under 24 hours and then once rooted they go into the bigger veg room at 18/6 mainly for saving on electric though because im running a 600 watt mh in veg and just 150 watt cfls for the clones so 24/0 doesnt reall cost much.. ive ran small experiments with 18/6, 20/4 and 24hr veg but never got any concrete proof 1 is better than the other at least no visible evidence...will they really root faster under 18/6???
It sounds like semantics to me. Whether we call it sleep, or a different (non-light based) form of production. But, I like your detailed explanation about what's happening.
bryleetch
Well-Known Member
All of the talk so far has been in regard to rooted plants or at least newly rooted. But anyways there's an idea that putting clones in the dark for a day after cutting and then going to 18/6 is supposed to put out roots faster because its supposed to make the clone focus its energy on root production rather than photosynthesis. Kind of makes sense but can't find any reliable sources to confirm it. Simplest way to find out would be to experiment on your own. GrowersGoneWild mentioned that he noticed the difference of clones under 24/0 vs 18/6 was slight, not sure if that included for when they were rooting too
bryleetch
Well-Known Member
"Sleep noun - a condition of body and mind such as that which typically recurs for several hours every night, in which the nervous system is relatively inactive, the eyes closed, the postural muscles relaxed, and consciousness practically suspended."
Last I checked plants don't have minds so basically that's why I don't like using that word with plants. Kind of the same reasoning why hibernation isn't called a long nap, its more about the physiologically change. Sleep is more about mental change. But you're right, its 100% semantics.
bryleetch
Well-Known Member
Only if you give them some warm milk and tuck them in afterwards
GrowerGoneWild
Well-Known Member
Leaves on the clones are trimmed, as they go into the dome, supposedly this is done to reduce photosynthesis to redirect energy for the clones root system creation, I simply do it so I can fit the 30-40 clones to a dome. I think its more for canopy consistency than root creation. If the point was to reduce photosynthesis for rooting, cutting leaves will do the same thing.
As far as the rooting performance is concerned after cutting has taken root in rockwool and is transfered to a media, I see more of a height difference vs. rootball difference in cuttings of same media, under different light cycles. Media is the bigger factor in rooting performance. not light cycle. Black Gold Seedling mix, beat out every media I was using, Pearlite, Peralite+Vermiculite, Coco, Coco+Pearlite.
I did check the rootballs many times, but Im not doing that as much, I know I've damaged plants and I have plenty of observations to stop doing that. Even if the journals say 5% root improvement in an 18-6 I would have a hard time seeing that. I have no way of verifying the results accurately without destroying the plant for examination.
Checking rootballs is risky.. Good way to fuck up a clone.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what you think is best.
The answer to the thread's question is "no, cannabis does not need sleep".
A plant grown in 24-0 will not grow slower nor will it be less healthy than a plant grown in 20/4. Whether those 4 extra hours of light make an appreciable difference in growth rate is another story, but it's not true that 20/4 will produce better than 24-0.
Whether you use 18/6, 20/4, 24/0 is up to the grower, but in my experience, it doesn't matter.
What does matter is that you keep night lengths short enough so the plant does not flower.
The only reason to use 20-4 over 24-0 is saving electricity.
The answer to the thread's question is "no, cannabis does not need sleep".
A plant grown in 24-0 will not grow slower nor will it be less healthy than a plant grown in 20/4. Whether those 4 extra hours of light make an appreciable difference in growth rate is another story, but it's not true that 20/4 will produce better than 24-0.
Whether you use 18/6, 20/4, 24/0 is up to the grower, but in my experience, it doesn't matter.
What does matter is that you keep night lengths short enough so the plant does not flower.
The only reason to use 20-4 over 24-0 is saving electricity.
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churchhaze
Well-Known Member
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
This would be counter-intuitive. The only reason 20-4 works as well as 24-0 is because the night length isn't long enough for %Pfr to reach the threshold. It would make more sense to interrupt the night with any other color than 730nm to keep the phytochrome state in Pfr.
A pulse of 730nm at lights out will make it even more likely to leave veg, not less likely.
A pulse of 730nm at lights out will make it even more likely to leave veg, not less likely.
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Many greenhouses use pulses of light during the night to interrupt the plants from going to sleep to save on electricity so they don't have to run the lights all night.