...All Things Vero...

[Abiqua]

More drivers
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/25W-outside-led-driver-with-high_60086347976.html


Dimmable Triac Drivers 250mA-1800mA
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/triac-dimmable-led-driver-250ma-300ma_60040629711.html?s=p


$19.99 1.8a 24-38v
http://www.satisled.com/60w-power-led-driver-ac180-265v-input-dc24-38v-1-8a-output_p1122.html

24.99 2.1a
http://www.satisled.com/70w-power-led-driver-ac180-265v-input-dc24-38v-2-1a-output_p1550.html
26.99 2.4
http://www.satisled.com/80w-power-led-driver-ac180-265v-input-dc24-38v-2-4a-output_p1123.html

 

[Abiqua]

$4.49 32v @ 600ma
http://www.satisled.com/593w-power-led-driver-ac85v277v-input-dc1532v-600ma-output_p1520.html

8.99 57v@600ma [2x Vero10-18's]
http://www.satisled.com/1018x3w-power-led-driver-ac85v277v-input-dc3057v-600ma-output-ce-approved_p1522.html

Small Vero Driver $1.59 40.5v@300mA
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb=y&IndexArea=product_en&CatId=&SearchText=300mA led driver

2 Vero 10's 20-54v@300ma $2.99
http://www.satisled.com/8151w-power-led-driver-ac85265v-input-dc2454-300ma-output_p562.html

39-76v@300mA $3.99
http://www.satisled.com/13-21-1w-power-led-driver-ac85-265v-input-dc39-76v-300ma-output_p1295.html

18-35v@650mA $3.99
http://www.satisled.com/610x3w-led-power-supply-for-led-ceiling-lamp-ac85v277v-input-dc1835v-650ma-output_p1523.html

18-43v@420mA $3.99
http://www.satisled.com/6122w-power-led-driver-ac-85v277v-input-1843v-420ma-output_p1525.html

 

[Dloomis514]

Those are good prices, but can you get a fine gf with the order to save on shipping,

 

[stardustsailor]

LER of Vero 29 3000°K -80 CRI is ~ 315 lm/Wr .

The of same CCT & CRI CXA3070 has 10 lm/Wr more ,
mainly because it has 41.37 % of quantum flux at range 500-599 nm (Cyan -Green-Yellow-Amber ),
while the Vero has 38.63 % of quantum flux at same range.

How to obtain LER value :

( Relative Power spectral distribution of light source * CIE1924 Photopic * 683) / 1 Watt

http://www.cvrl.org/cie.htm

Meaning :
LER = Sum ( ( 1 / Sum ( Rel.Power per λ )) * Rel.Power per λ * Rel.Photopic Power per λ * 683 lm/Wr )...choo.oooo......choooo....

The sum of all nm from 360 nm up to 830 nm is the light sources LER .
(It takes a spreadsheet to calculate it ,as also a digitizer software to digitize the Rel.Spec.Pwr
graph into y value chart -per λ (nm )- of the light source ).

From 380 nm up to 780 nm the CXA3070 3000/80 ,gives a LER result of 327 .674 lm/Wr .
But the 360-379 nm range as also the 781-830 nm range,are of not known y (rel.Power) values.
(Cree supplies a graph from 380 nm ,to 780 nm =400 nm range ) .
So it is normal ,the estimated LER to be HIGHER** than the "Manufacturer's official LER " ( 325 lm/Wr ).
The difference is just ~ 2.7 lm/W .

**(= smaller wl range for same radiant Watt output .400 nm range instead of 470 nm range of the CIE1924 standard ).

Sameways ,for Vero 29 3000/80 the calculated-estimated LER is 318.15 lm/Wr .
\
But also for 400 nm range ( 400-800 nm ) ,instead of 470 nm range .

Taking the 'freedom ' to assume that ,cause of same CRI,CCT ,blue diode& phosphor tech and some other factors
accounted ,both of these led arrays have their spectral "spectral curve ends " "fading" the same way or similar.
So,that the ' unknown 70 nm range difference' in calculated LER vs official LER ,
is also similar( -2.7 lm/Wr ) .



Thus 318.15 - 2.7 = 315.45 => 315 lm/Wr for the Vero 3000/80.

Cheers.

 

[SupraSPL]

Good info SDS thank you for taking the time to calculate that LER If I understand correctly the range from 360-400nm would not affect the lumen rating. Same with 700nm-830nm, are the Rel.Photopic Power per λ (nm ) values for those wavelengths near zero?

Out of curiosity, did you calculate LER for any of the other Veros?

 

[stardustsailor]

Good info SDS. If I understand correctly the range from 360-400nm would not affect the lumen rating anyway, correct? Same with 700nm-830nm? Are the Rel.Photopic Power per λ (nm ) values for those wavelengths near zero?

Not much .It affects it but not much ..
( of 70 nm range , lumin. output is only 2.7 lm/ radiant W ...At least for the CXA3070 3K/80)
___________________________________________________________________
http://www.cvrl.org/cie.htm

Check the values at the
"
Luminous efficiency functions
CIE (1924) Photopic V(λ) "

Choose the grey square ( spreadsheet per 1 nm ),
with the continuous red line.(the second from left ) .

(the first is per 5 nm,I think ...)

 

[stardustsailor]

What I call factor " z " ...

Say for example for the vero 29 3K/80 ...
At rel.spectral power graph ,value " 1 " is at 610 nm .

Assuming that radiant output is of 1 Watt exactly.

So..
All the surface enclosed by the rel spectral curve and axis x ( wavelength from 400 to 800 nm for vero29 ),
is the radiant power of 1 Watt .

Then 1 Watt = z * ( y{400nm} + y{401nm} +....+ y{799nm} + y{800nm} )

z = 1 Watt / Sum Rel.Pwr y (λ)

So ..at 1 Watt ....How many mW is the value "1" of the rel spec graph ?

" 1 " * z = 1 / Sum Rel.Pwr y (λ) = z ( = ~ 0.0067 W / ~6.7 mW )



Same for every other value y for every given nm ....
All together from 400 nm to 800 nm :

1 Watt = Sum Rel.Pwr y (λ) * z
Thus :

LER = z *683 * Sum ( CIE1924 y (λ) * Rel.Pwr y (λ) )

 

[guod]

youtube...
Luminous Efficacy of Radiation in LED System Calculations

 

[stardustsailor]

Out of curiosity, did you calculate LER for any of the other Veros?

No..
I've already came to a 'conclusion" ..
Vero 3.5K/80 gives faster vegging growth than 3K/80 ,slower flowering (a tad ) ,
better taste/smell (a tad ) and a tad lower yield .
In fact it is the one ,probably,resembling the CXA3070 3K/80 .
And already has better efficiency than the 3K/80 Vero 29 ....
So ,we need a 3.5K/80 Vero spectral graph ASAP ,to compare radiometric efficiency versus the CXA3070..
...

Oh...not to forget this time...
I owe you a reply ....

Operating lower - 5°C average ,may mean not so much ,at the 'running' duration....
but 5 C lower operational Tj,translates to some thousand hours more of service life ( L70 ).

For me ,as a designer ,Vero is full of advantages over the CXA3070 ...

CXA's ( most possible : Ca++ doped AlN ) ceramic substrate is of about 100 W/mK
thermal conductivity.
See how Cree mentions about it's array back surface " that is more smoth and flat " than most heatsinks ?
What kind of heat sink surface preparation ,Cree suggests ?
(2500 grit and so on ....)
About TIM s ?

Well ...
Bridgelux not only ,mentions few basic things about thermal designing and cooling ,
no heatsink preparation ,nothing ..
Not only any of those ,but they had the "madness" -should I say ? -
To laser etch the surface of the thermal pad ( 2D code and type of COB )
- !!!

It's like an "in your face,dude! " to the 'others" ... ...

But Bridgelux (along with Toshiba ...) plays on a steady ground ...
Copper ..
Copper's thermal conductivity ...400 W/m.K ...

Plus that the the Ver0 29 COB doesn't 'crack" ,as easy as an eggshell ..
CXAs do ....
I've received,already, few of damaged CXA arrays.
Either cracked and/or with couple of die series dead...
Very sensitive array.

Vero's have 4x mounting holes .
CXA's need a holder for secure mounting and appropriate surface contact pressure.

Polymer 'encasing' of vero's serve already as "LES protector" .

And few other advantages over the CXA series ...

But ...
both arrays are superb...

It's just me that...

As a designer ,I'm just choosing the one ,
-according to my own criteria-
that serves best it's purpose.

Cheers.

 

[Positivity]

I am slowly being pulled to veros..

The copper would go well with my heatsink...darn it. Copper to copper sounds nice. Plus they are more available...

But when I look at cobs, at their most enticing point, low driven 150 l/w plus performance I don't see the vero data sheets showing that type performance. I'm sure their every bit as capable...but the data sheets aren't showing it as clearly.

I can't say I'm loving the straight 3k spectrum either. My soil mix is possibly messed up this round though so hard for me to come to any real conclusions. That's where a more inert mix with measured nutes would help me in these type situations of comparison. But....when the lights right growing is easy..

I will say one thing for sure...the availability and minimum order on high bin cxas is enough to turn me away regardless of how good they are. Cree is dropping the ball in that department.

 

[bicit]

Having the option of the Pico EZ mate is also very nice for folks not so handy with a soldering iron. As long as you're a gentle giant it offers mild serviceability as well. Viable even for high voltage serial strings with the meanwell HLG-185H-C series.

 

[lazaah]

I haven't taken the time to really study what you guys are on about, but I am happy to collect some data if it is useful.

Have a 3x3 vero10 4k running on hlg-60h-700b, has been running about 60 days. And i am waiting for glue to dry on two 5x5 vero10 4k on hlg-185h-c1400b.

Have 62 vero 10 4k in total, and a mw apc-12-350 for running individual cobs. I've got a decent multi Meter, thermocouple, a crapy lux meter on my phone, and have just begun summer holidays . All at your disposal boys.

 

[stardustsailor]

Toshiba's work on the Bridgelux's patent "GaN-on-Si " ,is more than exceptional.
I'd always the impression that Toshiba made the best Laptops ..
( With Harman-Kardon speakers ...)..
It seems that Toshiba ,makes also on of the best COBs (easily) available ...

The Vero series ..
(Sold under the brand of Bridgelux ).

Plus that It seems that the "GaN -on - Si" ,performs same ( if not better) than the
'record groundbreaking efficiency' 3rd Gen SiC (Silicone Carbide ) die wafer platform ...
( as in Cree CXA3070 ) ...

Both of those L.E.D arrays carry it's own legacy ...
At such cases ...
The ..hm..'small details' ,make the whole lot of difference ...

Ain't wisest thing to be a 'rock' ,against the stream of evolving technology ...
One second is this ,next second is that ...

Nowdays ,I vote for Veros ...
Yeap...
Plenty of advantages ( aka 'small-but-nevertheless-crucial- details ') ,
over the CXA3070 ....

Think of two different women ....
.....
One is a true 'centerfold' ...
But you seldom get to see/meet her ....
High -class 'golden girl' ...
With expensive taste ...(=>array holders ,heatsink flatness /preparation,TIM aspplication....)
And have to be 'gentle' with her ...
If you ever find her ..
Always far & 'available' to few ...

The other one is beautiful enough ,
but a lady on the living room ,
a chef at the kitchen
and a porn-star at the bedroom.
And last but not least, easy to 'obtain' ....

Eh ?

Choices ,choices....

Cheers.

 

[Positivity]

Sounds good to me, lot easier to play with spectrums when they are almost half the price. Plus..I like porn stars in the bedroom. The copper rack and curvy yet firm
behind works for me.

 

[stardustsailor]

Sounds good to me, lot easier to play with spectrums when they are almost half the price. Plus..I like porn stars in the bedroom. The copper rack and curvy yet firm
behind works for me.

Ok...Let's turn back to 'gentlemen of potheads " state ...
..

Small details :

1)
CXA3070 : 1 mm thick Ceramic case. Breaks apart,cracks,chips almost as easy as an eggshell ..
(Come to 'think' about it ..An eggshell of 1 mm thickness ,probably would 've been more tough ,than the CXA3070 ... )
Vero29 : Copper case ,'riveted' in polymer outer 'disc shaped ' case.Robust enough construction.

2)
CXA3070 :Needs and array holder and two screws,to be correctly installed...
Vero29 : Needs 4x screws ,to be correctly installed..

3)
CXA3070 :Needs very good work on thermal design and built.Otherwise COBs suffers and will 'die' sooner ...
Vero29 :Needs a flat & smooth heatsink ,a fan and a tad of TIM .....
With very good work on thermal design and built,Vero29 gets the flu at 1.4 A ...

4)
CXA3070: Next to this array in rarity ,is the fungus eating , siberian crocodile .
Oh no-no-no ..This particular reptile species is third in row,actually ...
Second thing n rarity,comes the Ideal array holder for the CXA3070 ...
Vero29 : Soon at your local 7-11 .. (ok ,that was way much...).
Easy to find & obtain.Simple as that.
A bit of web search and you 'll easily trace it ,in US,Canada ,Asia,Oceania & Europe...
Almost always ,on stock.

5)
CXA3070: Two golden plated pads .
Vero29 : EZ-mate and silver plated pads .

 

[churchhaze]

Your avatar suggests otherwise.

Nowdays ,I vote for Veros ...
Yeap...
Plenty of advantages ( aka 'small-but-nevertheless-crucial- details ') ,
over the CXA3070 ....

Think of two different women ....
.....
One is a true 'centerfold' ...
But you seldom get to see/meet her ....
High -class 'golden girl' ...
With expensive taste ...(=>array holders ,heatsink flatness /preparation,TIM aspplication....)
And have to be 'gentle' with her ...
If you ever find her ..
Always far & 'available' to few ...

The other one is beautiful enough ,
but a lady on the living room ,
a chef at the kitchen
and a porn-star at the bedroom.
And last but not least, easy to 'obtain' ....

Eh ?

Choices ,choices....

Cheers.

 

[AquariusPanta]

5)
CXA3070: Two golden plated pads .
Vero29 : EZ-mate and silver plated pads .

Why do you believe Cree went with the golden pads when silver carries with it higher levels of thermal and electrical conductivity?

(Matthiessen's Rule crossed my mind, or more accurately my eyes)

*{[(Keep your books for and from college)]}*

You don't think Cree is trying save a few dollars, only to turn around and charge the consumer a hefty price for their 'state-of-the-art' product?

 

[uzerneims]

So scientists!
For running from seed to bud - with slower veg, little more strech, but more yield -
BXRC-30E10K0-L - right? 3000k / 80CRI

Are veros giving away 1gp/w?

 

[AquariusPanta]

So scientists!
For running from seed to bud - with slower veg, little more strech, but more yield -
BXRC-30E10K0-L - right? 3000k / 80CRI

Are veros giving away 1gp/w?

No..
I've already came to a 'conclusion" ..
Vero 3.5K/80 gives faster vegging growth than 3K/80 ,slower flowering (a tad ) ,
better taste/smell (a tad ) and a tad lower yield .
In fact it is the one ,probably,resembling the CXA3070 3K/80 .
And already has better efficiency than the 3K/80 Vero 29 ....
So ,we need a 3.5K/80 Vero spectral graph ASAP ,to compare radiometric efficiency versus the CXA3070..
...



Cheers.

Replying... with another's reply.

I would guess that both the Vero (18 or 29?) 3000K and 3500K makes share similar end-game timelines; one might grow faster in vegetation and slower in flower while the other has the complete opposite effects/outcome. One has more red spectra, while the other more blue. I like my 4000Ks but next go around, I'm taking down the BlackStar Flower and hanging up some real red-coats (3000K's).

 

[uzerneims]

Replying... with another's reply.

I would guess that both the Vero (18 or 29?) 3000K and 3500K makes share similar end-game timelines; one might grow faster in vegetation and slower in flower while the other has the complete opposite effects/outcome. One has more red spectra, while the other more blue.

Yeah, i read that, just want some pure shot. I have seen complete CXA grows, but all who grows with VERO, they never post late pictures or final yield, they've gone walking or smth...
That is like mystery, man...
You don't know how hard it is to decide