Thinking Greenhouse for transition into Rec Grow in OR

[petert]

Didn't see much on RIU when I did a search, but watched a video from Colorado about greenhouse growing is the direction growing is going to go. I've been a medical grower (outdoor only) for the past 10 years and will transition to recreational grower January 2016. I' looking into semi-gable greenhouses at least 30x48. I have electricity, water, natural gas all nearby on my land.
Are there any experienced growers who have grown in a greenhouse in winter months? I like the idea of using available sunlight and suplimenting with lights.

 

[Abiqua]

Didn't see much on RIU when I did a search, but watched a video from Colorado about greenhouse growing is the direction growing is going to go. I've been a medical grower (outdoor only) for the past 10 years and will transition to recreational grower January 2016. I' looking into semi-gable greenhouses at least 30x48. I have electricity, water, natural gas all nearby on my land.
Are there any experienced growers who have grown in a greenhouse in winter months? I like the idea of using available sunlight and suplimenting with lights.

Go live in Bend.......I am sure you are aware of the sun allergy of the non-summer months in the Valley

 

[Abiqua]

Seriously, though, just understand your trade-off's, heating, lighting [power in] and money on hand and you will be fine.

If you are in 503 or anywhere west of the Cascades, you will have to balance some reduced heating costs [when comparing it to an eastside site] with increased energy usage from supplemental lighting because you are probably receiving anywhere from 25-40% less DLI from a Valley site to an East of the Cascades site...... that's a big difference when having to factor in power, heating, cooling and overall light schedule schemes.

And is heating really going to be that big of a difference, it gets colds in Bend, but its gets cold elsewhere in Oregon, so sites that see reduced DLI from either location or exposure and cold temps are getting the wallet double whammy....


those are just the site logistics and rudimentary at best...... hth a lil

haven't even gotten to water issues yet.....are you collecting, municipal use or well? Willamette Valley water quality is "different" aka usually lower water quality but different GH/kh/pH characteristics] than Eastern/Central Oregon water, but is certainly more plentiful, again another trade-off......

 

[petert]

I'm in the eastern gorge…Almost as much sun as Bend, not as consistantly cold. I have land and deeded water rights (irrigation). I also have a 10 KW solar system on my site. My alternative is renting/buying a metal building and going indoor during the fall/winter/spring.
I'm thinking I could get 4 harvests in a greenhouse if I do it right and continue doing my summer outdoor grow.
I may be wrong..But I'm thinking there would be an overall savings in energy consumption by going with a good greenhouse system over an indoors set up. I'm still in the early stages of working this out..But I can get a 30 X 48 (1,400 sqft) greenhouse complete with fans, gas furnace, weed barrier flooring,coverings..pretty much everything for less than 10K.

 

[UncleBuck]

i wouldn't bother trying to do a greenhouse grow in the eastern gorge in the winter for one simple reason: humidity.

if it's meant to grow in oregon, it will flourish. if it's not meant to grow in oregon, nature will destroy it.

 

[Abiqua]

I'm in the eastern gorge…Almost as much sun as Bend, not as consistantly cold. I have land and deeded water rights (irrigation). I also have a 10 KW solar system on my site. My alternative is renting/buying a metal building and going indoor during the fall/winter/spring.
I'm thinking I could get 4 harvests in a greenhouse if I do it right and continue doing my summer outdoor grow.
I may be wrong..But I'm thinking there would be an overall savings in energy consumption by going with a good greenhouse system over an indoors set up. I'm still in the early stages of working this out..But I can get a 30 X 48 (1,400 sqft) greenhouse complete with fans, gas furnace, weed barrier flooring,coverings..pretty much everything for less than 10K.

Sounds like you have groundwork...I have never seen a complete analysis done on whether on not it is more efficient to do a greenhouse grow vs. indoors for 9 months but that does not mean they exist.......

Basically, if I was to start, since you have your sizing, the next most important is light source.
You would really have to do a cost benefit analysis breakdown [if you are that thorough] and I would start with figuring out a ballpark # for the DLI to start.

This little tidbit, gives you a very basic overview of DLI and then how to compute it in the greenhouse......
http://www.hrt.msu.edu/energy/notebook/pdf/sec1/daily_light_integral_defined_by_runkle.pdf

.....^
In the northern half of the
United States, the average greenhouse
DLI is below the target DLI
of 10-12 mol·m-2·d-1 for about 3
months of the year.
[A sunny day may provide up to 60 mol·m-2·d-1 per day. ]
[I would also bet a target DLI for Indica/Sat's would differ but it is probably higher than the recommended 10-12 of the paper I linked. I would say it might be around 30 mol·m-2·d-1 target for canna. Considering a good HPS/LED will emit around 1000-1400umol/s in most people's "sweet spots" and sunlight being around 2000+ umol/s on a good day, just a guess. Of course, 2000 umol/s is never the end result at the surface due to albedo, clouds, air pressure, etc.] So 30-35 DLI is probably where you might aim. I am sure somebody in the outdoor greenhouse grows, has an opinion on DLI.....

and Then.......

you can take those #'s and find the radiometric [umol/sec] data of the light source [umol/s charts are fairly common for HPS, MH, CMH, etc] and start adding.......

Snaps might also have a recommendation on a sunrise/sunset controller which would be your brain. Or DIY for a hell of a lot more piece of mind, if your capable.....

1400 sq. ft is awesome and that is a steal @10k.

Everything else is a Snaps question, lol.

 

[Abiqua]

I am Gorge born and bred......humidity is probably less than 60% RH during the winter, plus the Chinook [winds] dries it out coming off the eastside of the mountain as it drops aka adiabatic winds aka Chinook winds, courtesy of the receiving end of worlds largest ocean.

The question of the day will be: Will the DLI requirements [lights burning] be so high that coupled with cooling/heating/humidity control it is less efficient than inside.

10K Solar must be nice

 

[petert]

Thanks for that article..While in Veg during winter months I was envisioning having the lights come on 3 hours before sunrise…Off during daylight hours and then back on for 3 hours after sunset. I met someone up in Mill-A on the WA side who grows flowers and veggies year round and heats his greenhouse with a wood stove…Not sure how he suppliments light though..I've got a year to figure it all out. But I do appreciate your input Abiqua.
Are you still in the gorge? I've been here since 72 and can't imagine living anywhere more beautiful and geographically diverse!!

 

[legallyflying]

Hey bud,
The bigger question is...can you get rid of greenhouse buds in the rec market? I know a few guys that are still growing outdoors but most say that they are getting next to nothing for their buds that it is almost not worth it.

I suppose the real question is ...how many people are they going to let grow for the recreational market. Their is going to be a FUCKING FLOOD of applications, that much you can be sure of. Something akin to the missoula floods

 

[doubletake]

Then screw it sell it to the black market?

 

[legallyflying]

That's an option I suppose. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. I know WA rec has a fair share of outdoor feeding into the stores. But then again the growths have a strangle hold on the market.

Seriously, no shit? The store in Vancouver was selling bud for $25/gram and in all honesty it looked like stuff I just sell to the BHO crew.

 

[Abiqua]

Thanks for that article..While in Veg during winter months I was envisioning having the lights come on 3 hours before sunrise…Off during daylight hours and then back on for 3 hours after sunset. I met someone up in Mill-A on the WA side who grows flowers and veggies year round and heats his greenhouse with a wood stove…Not sure how he suppliments light though..I've got a year to figure it all out. But I do appreciate your input Abiqua.
Are you still in the gorge? I've been here since 72 and can't imagine living anywhere more beautiful and geographically diverse!!

Just on the other side of the hill in the neighboring county.....I am from the Hood originally.....my family has been in the Gorge since the 50's.....

My pops graduated from Fossil High school in 72, but he had attended Wy"East in Odell before Hood River High Myself, I also lived in Central Oregon for about 15 years, love it there too, but the Gorge is Home!


It won't be just 3 hours though.....remember, your DLI averages......Say you need 20 DLI minimum to grow a good canna crop. If you are only averaging 3-4 during the entire day, not only will you have to come up with 20 DLI for your "3 hour period" but you will also have to come up with 17+ DLI for the rest of the 9 hour period as well...[shortest day of the year, as the example] then gradually changing as the sun stays out longer and longer....
But things change and this is why analysis for this type of program, really needs to be done. What if, because of your good Gorge location, you average 10-15 DLI every day in the month in every off month other than say December January. You need to be able to plot that, to compare. So maybe that translates into only using 400-600 umoles every day of supplemental lighting for most of a period covering 10 hours, then your target 1000+. Then in those two off months, you might have 1000+ umoles needed 90% of the time and 40-600 10% of the time. In those 2 months, That might be as high as 25% or more of your yearly lighting requirement in only 1/6 of the year [15%]....and then what if another month has nasty weather and adds 10+% more lighting requirements [more heating, more cooling, more temperature controller usually]. What if 40% of your costs are in 25% of your time in a year. That has to be planned for imho...

that's why you need some serious statistical analysis to really flush out the #'s. Otherwise, what's the point, Be it pain from Discipline or pain from regret....But once you have an idea of how much power source you need, everything else will fall into place.

 

[Abiqua]

That's an option I suppose. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out. I know WA rec has a fair share of outdoor feeding into the stores. But then again the growths have a strangle hold on the market.

Seriously, no shit? The store in Vancouver was selling bud for $25/gram and in all honesty it looked like stuff I just sell to the BHO crew.

Auction that shit off, lol
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2014/11/washingtons_first_marijuana_au.html

 

[petert]

I saw that... Lucky bastard. They bought all that weed untested. All they could do was open the bag and smell it... Still I'd take $125 an oz all day for my outdoor! Which by the way came back from the lab at 20.3 % THC. .

Thanks for the insight man. I really appreciate it. I'm going to have to really dig in and research that! I've been in Hood since 72. I'm think we either know each other or know a shitload of people in common. I graduated from HRV in 78