UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
i can only imagine what your fedora collection looks like.
Early solar system formation in one image 450 light years away
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
- Start date
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
My position remains consistent. Asking a question is not making a statement.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
you keep trying to convince yourself of that, as you cry yourself to sleep.
your tears are as sweet as treacle to me, and i shall savour their delicate flavours at length
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Why would your imaginary friend create a system like that to start a planet?
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so you now wish to advance back to the very lines you abandoned not long ago?
do you think my arguments have become weaker in the last few minutes?
my "imaginary friends" as you put it, are logical thinking beings who create complex systems for their own purposes.
i do not pretend to know their minds, and you have no hope of comprehending their motivations.
but by all means, do keep making your strawmen.
it's hilarious to watch you get knocked on your ass by your own feeble constructs.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Your mind becomes weaker every day your old tired body progressively deteriorates
You believe in an infinitely complex being capable of creating the universe and I'm the one losing the debate..
Sorry to break it to you Kynes, there's no leprechaun at the end of the rainbow, and even if there was, considering your beliefs and behavior, you certainly wouldn't be getting any gold. You're not a good person and you hold shitty beliefs that damage and harm millions, if not billions of people during the course of their lives
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so you have a concrete position?
i thought you were "just asking questions"
your weak fallacious arguments, and pantywaist milksop mush-spined backpedaling are hilarious.
you have no idea what i believe, so your claim that my beliefs "damage and harm millions" is comical.
every time you try to enter the fray, you make chomp chomp cry with your rhetorical failures
what i believe in has zero bearing on whether you misrepresented a theory as fact (which you did), created a false dilemma (which you did), and then ran away from that false dilemma like a coward (which you did), and now you want to change the subject to MY beliefs, as if my believing something that you dont agree with somehow justifies your own bullshit.
like i said before, Clownshoes.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
if you're trying to convince me that your the ideas you express are so incoherent and without basis in reality as to be beyond comprehension, then you have convinced me!
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I was asking a question in the OP, one that you can't answer because magic man in the sky works in mysterious ways I suppose..
The fact I don't believe in God doesn't change that fact, therefore there is no backpedaling
You espouse your beliefs every time you post on this forum. Your belief of supply side economics alone harms millions of people, and like usual, you're too dumb to see it. Use your own life as an example
We've already established you don't know what the word 'theory' means (a collection of facts) in scientific terminology, no need to prove the point further..
You don't believe planetary formation, evolution or climate change because of your beliefs, not because they're not true or because there's no evidence for them.
That's the benefit of being an atheist, you aren't chained to unsubstantiated beliefs, which means you are free to follow where the facts and observations lead, which is why I do accept things like evolution, climate change and planetary formation. Your flavor of religion tells you to intellectually lie to yourself in order for you to believe their bullshit. This is the mark of a weak mind that's terrified of oblivion.
I get it though and most people in your position have my sympathy, you were indoctrinated as a child and carried the burden of religion with you your whole life, always too afraid to question it honestly. Now things like physics provide answers to questions you could never answer before, and it scares the shit out of you.
Your life and entire belief system was built on a foundation of fear. Ironic from the guy who criticizes others for beliefs he perceives to be based on emotion..
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
ha ha ha ha ha
ohh where to begin?
1 : in the OP, you made the assertion that the image provided showed planets actually forming, which was NOT the case
the image is consistent with the prevailing theory of planet formation, but the theory is still just a theory, not a fact. even your own citations did not make the claim you did.
2 : a theory is not "a collection of facts", a theory is a conclusion based on a series of observations, and may be revised, or overturned as more observations are made.
your smug claims to the contrary are absolutely comical.
3 : i made no assertions regarding the theory in question, and in fact i consider the theory to be well supported.
your claims regarding the certainty of this theory are unsupported. even the scientists who are staunch proponents of this theory do not make the leap you did
4 : you now wish to argue that YOUR beliefs in atheism provide you with some sort of moral high ground from which to launch your pontifications. this is beyond hilarious.
5 : and you close out by telling me what i believe, and why, through even more argument from non-authority.
6 : how you managed to fit your clownshoes into another set of clownshoes is a mystery that requires exhaustive research.
thats some Inception level shit right there.
Addendum: i missed this bit, but it really bears some level of derision:
"We've already established you don't know what the word 'theory' means (a collection of facts) in scientific terminology, no need to prove the point further.."~your retarded ass
7: theories always need more proofs, only "Faiths" are set in stone.
that you think that once a theory is established that means "The Science Is Settled" proves you are even more retarded than i believed possible.
your clownshoes are nested like russian dolls, i cant even begin to comprehend how you manage to maintain homeostasis when your brain is so badly degraded.
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Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Wrong, the image in the OP does in fact show planetary formation. You don't accept it because it contradicts your beliefs
""These features are almost certainly the result of young planet-like bodies that are being formed in the disc. This is surprising since such young stars are not expected to have large planetary bodies capable of producing the structures we see in this image," said Stuartt Corder, ALMA Deputy Director.
“When we first saw this image we were astounded at the spectacular level of detail. HL Tauri is no more than a million years old, yet already its disc appears to be full of forming planets. This one image alone will revolutionise theories of planet formation,” explained Catherine Vlahakis, ALMA Deputy Program Scientist and Lead Program Scientist for the ALMA Long Baseline Campaign."
http://www.eso.org/public/news/eso1436/
As I explained to you earlier, nothing in science is 100%, so scientists use specific language to convey that. "Almost certainly" & "appears to be" are examples of scientists utilizing language. Had they said "Certainly" & "show full forming planets", people like you would cry even more. The conflict between science and religion in the US is real and terminology can be even more polarizing, something science aims to change.
"a coherent group of tested general propositions, commonly regarded as correct, that can be used as principles of explanation and prediction for a class of phenomena: Einstein's theory of relativity."
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/theory?s=t
That must be why their statements are so conclusive..
Considering atheism doesn't tell me to murder homosexuals, keep slaves and treat women as second class citizens, I'd argue it's safe to say I own the moral high ground
What religion do you follow? Do you believe Jesus is the son of God? Do you believe in original sin? Do you believe in Noah's arc?
How many of those questions will you avoid in an attempt to retain your fabricated credibility?
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
so, now you withdraw to repetition of previously stated claims which STILL do not make the assertion you claim
the theory in question is STILL a theory, not a fact
theories are, as i asserted, a conclusion based on observations, which can be revised or overturned as new observations are made
and now you wish to change the subject to my beliefs (which are irrelevant to the issue) as if that will somehow make your bullshit correct.
i do not have to justify my beliefs to you, and your disbelief of MY beliefs (sight unseen, your faith in your own infallibility is that strong...) does not make your own lies, ignorance, and stupidity any less hilarious.
the theory at question is STILL a theory, thus you are wrong, in primus, and your second claim remains a false dilemma, making you doubly wrong.
your staunch defense of your wrongness, makes you wrong on the cube, and your attempt to change the subject and argue that my beliefs (whatever they might be...) somehow proves you to be correct makes you wrong in 4 dimensions.
but by all means, keep spinning your wheels.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
it has been my experience that people like kynes who always argue on the side of things like anti-evolution beliefs and in favor of things like "our judeo-christian heritage" are secret bible smashers who won't admit it online.
beenthere is one example of such, desert dude is another.
pada, you may be on to something that explains why kynes preaches like he does.
beenthere is one example of such, desert dude is another.
pada, you may be on to something that explains why kynes preaches like he does.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Nothing I've said in this thread disputes the fact that this is all theoretical. WTF are you hung up on that? Theories are made up of facts, facts explain the real universe. Theories are facts in science. You fail to acknowledge & understand that.
No, you do in fact have to justify your beliefs, because what you believe directs your actions, and your actions equate to bullshit statements like "my beliefs need no justification!".. (ROFL!) Tell that to the scientologists..
You think you're fooling people, but you're not.. Logic dictates beliefs require justification otherwise they can be dismissed. So what is your justification for your beliefs if you wish for them to remain relevant to the conversation? I've justified my beliefs, why do you take issue with justifying yours? Is it because they are unjustifiable or because you know you'll be embarrassed beyond all consideration if you state what you actually believe?
LOL!
I don't dispute that planetary formation is a theory (same as evolution, same as plate tectonics), you simply don't understand the word, and by effect, tacitly agree with me without even realizing it because you're an idiot who doesn't understand scientific linguistics. Go learn the scientific meaning of the word 'theory' to discover how silly your ass looks.
Why don't you tell us what your beliefs are, outright?
Because you know they're bullshit, unfounded, and dogmatic, purely based on emotion, and you don't want to be found on the record admitting it.
You are such a gaping pussy of a mind. A grown man can't even admit to his own goddamn beliefs..
Lets see what excuse you can muster up to avoid actually stating what you believe, if nothing else, your bullshit is always entertaining..
Pussy.
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
theories are NOT facts, nor are they made up of facts.
theories are conclusions based on OBSERVATIONS. your inability to grasp this simple idea is probably why you fail so hard.
my beliefs have no bearing on the issue at hand, since my beliefs have NOTHING to do with planetary formation theories, astrophysics or images of stars 450 light years from earth.
my beliefs require no justification TO YOU, since youre too stupid to grasp them anyway, besides their being irrelevant to the subject.
i have no trouble discussing my beliefs with rational people, however you havent earned any insight into my beliefs, nor do i feel like helping you change the subject from your own ignorance.
this thread is only tangentially related to theology, due to your false dilemma which you still cant recognize because you are so utterly stupid.
i will spell it out for you.
1 : you claimed that the photo in the OP was concrete proof of a theory. (it aint)
2 : you then set forth the false dilemma that if X is true, Y must be false (a classic rhetorical fallacy)
3 : you then doubled down on proposition1, and went all in on proposition 2.
4 : when challenged on 1, you tried to claim that theories are facts, based on your own infallibility
5 : when challenged on your false dilemma, you changed the subject, then circled right back to it again, like a good lolcow should
6 : then you again tried to change the subject back to my unrelated and unstated beliefs, without even knowing what those beliefs might be
7 : you STILL cant accept that theories are made up of observations, not "facts", and theories are not "settled science" simply because they fit your preconceptions.
8 : and now, you continue to demand i justify my religious beliefs to your satisfaction, despite their continued irrelevance to the subject at hand, in a vain attempt to transfer the burden of evidence from yourself (the claims maker) onto me (the claims challenger)
9 : lulz.
you set yourself up to fail, and then ensured that your failure was complete.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
You're referring to the laymans use of the word 'theory', I'm using it in scientific context
Two completely different meanings which you consistently fail to acknowledge and base your straw men arguments on
"A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation. As with most (if not all) forms of scientific knowledge, scientific theories are inductive in nature and aim for predictive power and explanatory force.
The strength of a scientific theory is related to the diversity of phenomena it can explain, and to its elegance and simplicity (Occam's razor). As additional scientific evidence is gathered, a scientific theory may be rejected or modified if it does not fit the new empirical findings- in such circumstances, a more accurate theory is then desired. In certain cases, the less-accurate unmodified scientific theory can still be treated as a theory if it is useful (due to its sheer simplicity) as an approximation under specific conditions (e.g. Newton's laws of motion as an approximation to special relativity at velocities which are small relative to the speed of light).
Scientific theories are testable and make falsifiable predictions. They describe the causal elements responsible for a particular natural phenomenon, and are used to explain and predict aspects of the physical universe or specific areas of inquiry (e.g. electricity, chemistry, astronomy). Scientists use theories as a foundation to gain further scientific knowledge, as well as to accomplish goals such as inventing technology or curing disease. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge. This is significantly different from the common usage of the word "theory", which implies that something is a conjecture, hypothesis, or guess (i.e., unsubstantiated and speculative)."
Your beliefs won't allow you to accept science, which is why they are relevant to this conversation. You don't believe the OP [planetary formation] because your religious beliefs say "Gawd dun it", and you're too embarrassed to admit it because you know you'll be laughed off the entire forum. Who do you think you're kidding?
1. "This shows the beginning stages of planet formation" FACT "the same way our solar system was formed nearly 5 billion years ago" FACT
Everything I said in the OP was demonstrably factual. Your beliefs won't allow you to accept it and instead make you deny reality
2. I asked a legitimate question since every religious texts explanation of the origins of the Earth are obviously wrong; "Why would a god create such a system?". One wouldn't. Your beliefs won't allow you to accept it and instead make you deny reality
3. I don't have imaginary friends like you do, that doesn't mean my (and the ESA) statements are any less factual
4. Scientific theories are facts, your beliefs won't allow you to accept it and instead make you deny reality
5. I've remained consistent the entire thread
6. I know what your beliefs are, and you're too much of a weak minded pussy to state them on the record for everyone else to see for themselves because you know you'll be instantly discredited
7. Theories are made up of facts based on conclusions of observations. Cry more
8. Your religious beliefs have relevance to this subject. Your religious beliefs dismiss anything that doesn't fortify them, like evolution because your religious beliefs tell you "Gawd dun it!", so anything that says God didn't do it is automatically dismissed despite the evidence. It's evident you understand this and are simply avoiding justifying your religious beliefs because, like I said earlier, it would instantly discredit you and everything you've stated regarding science or religion on this entire forum.
Here, since you say it's not relevant to this conversation, I started a thread for you just so you could avoid that problem!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/what-are-your-religious-beliefs.852015/
Now what will your excuse be? Totally relevant to that conversation, so lets see what you have to say now
Pussy
Dr Kynes
Well-Known Member
now it's just sad.
theories are derived from observations, these observations are not "facts" since science doesnt deal in absolutes. thats what religions do.
the observations can be corroborated by additional observations, making the theory more and more reliable, but no scientist can ever declare anything with 100% certainty, due to the fundamental fallibility of observations.
the currently accepted theory of planet formation is well supported, but no real scientist would ever make the claim that he has it all locked up, and any further observations are a waste of time.
but thats what you did.
further, any theory, no matter how well supported, predictive and reliable can be used to disprove an unrelated assertion with zero relevance to the theory at question.
thats what you tried to accomplish with your false dilemma.
example:
observations demonstrate quite reliably that the sun is a huge mass of hydrogen and other elements ~93 million miles from the earth, and the various planets in our solar system orbit around it.
these observations demonstrate that the sun is likely not the flaming chariot of Apollo, racing across the sky every day
those observations do NOT prove that 72 million years ago the evil space overlord Xenu didnt stack frozen aliens around a volcano and then blow them up with atomics.
the two arguments are unrelated.
you want to be right, but you simply are not.
your own copy/paste citations make clear that the currently dominant THEORY of planet formation is still just a theory, and that theory is derived from OBSERVATIONS not "facts"
thus you are simply WRONG in your primary assertion, due to your overstepping of the limitations of a theory, and in your understanding of what a theory actually is in the first place.
your secondary and unrelated conclusion goes beyond mere ignorance and intellectual laziness, and steps firmly into the realm of rhetorical fallacy by declaring that X is true (lulz) and thus, unrelated belief Y must therefore be false.
this is a classic False Dilemma fallacy
your inability to recognize this simple fact (and yes, this IS fact, not theory) was lulzy, but now it's just sad.
ill simplify it so maybe you can grasp the concept.
Hypothesis : Seagulls are actually a type of bird!
Observation: yep, looks like a bird to me...
Theory: seagulls do appear to be a type of bird.
Logical Extension Of The Theory: therefore seagulls probably lay eggs.
False Dilemma: Since seagulls are actually birds, that proves JFK was killed by GHOST PIRATES!!!!
.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
There is no point in me replying to anything you have to say. You avoid valid points and dismiss valid criticism
So keep being a pussy about your indefensible beliefs and keep avoiding the questions because you know you're wrong, go ahead and declare victory all you like, you haven't won anything other than being able to tolerate your own bullshit longer
https://www.rollitup.org/t/what-are-your-religious-beliefs.852015/
Pussy.
