True, but the events leading up to the attempted arrest are relevant. I bet the cops involved if they could, would do this differently. This isn't a MB case.
Watch the long version of the bust.
I Can't Breathe..I Can't Breathe..I Can't Breathe..I Can't Breathe..
- Thread starter schuylaar
- Start date
Watch the long version of the bust.
i concur
no, this isn't an MB case.
SmokeyDan
Well-Known Member
When it comes to murder and injuring someone, the crime is not based on an objective standard, it is based on your actions and the results to the victim.
Let me explain.
Suppose I have brittle bone disease. You slap me. A normal person would be unharmed. An objective standard there would mean no murder since a slap would never kill or harm a normal person.
But since I have brittle bone disease, the slap breaks my spine and severs my spinal cord, resulting in death.
You would be charged with manslaughter at least.
His weight should have no legal bearing in mitigating the officers guilt.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
In this case the victim was a suspect in a crime and was resisting arrest. I am sure that your law experience would tell you that there are certain protections from liability that the police enjoy as long as they were properly executing their job.
People say this guy died because he was selling cigarettes and that is not the case.
There is a consistant effort to reject the circumstances around these cases. Nobody wanted to talk about Michael Brown's strong arm robbery or the actions he took up to the shooting. Nobody here wants to acknowledge what the real issue was.
Until we do that there will be no progress.
Hazydat620
Well-Known Member
Yes a big one, for one there is a thing called the constitution, you should read it. Was he told he was being placed under arrest? Did they ask nicely if they could detain him while they conducted a investigation? Do you follow the orders of anyone dressed in plain clothes claiming to be a cop? I see his palms out to the side after he was taken down, until another officer pulls his hand hand away from him trying to put his hands behind his back. How do you put your hands behind your back with a officer forcefully holding it out in front of of you, also with 3 other officers on your back? Could a man his size even put his hands behind his back not resisting? enough for the officers to use one set of cuffs? Yeah there's lots of arguments, you're just to dumb to realize them.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I have read it but I missed the part where you have the constitutional right to resist arrest.... Could you point that part out?
link?
Hazydat620
Well-Known Member
Try reading the 4 amendment. Did they do a proper investigation and have a warrant for his arrest before they tried to apprehend him? I wouldn't expect you to understand. Where do you live again?
SmokeyDan
Well-Known Member
Irrelevant. All that stuff is not pertinent because they used a choke hold that had been barred, presumably because of risk of harm.
Keep in mind, had these guys not been cops, they would all be charged with 2nd degree murder. Even the ones standing by would be named so as part of a group. Accessories to the crime.
He was not violently resisting, he just wasn't cooperating.
No grounds for excessive force.
All the cops should be fired. And I'd say they all belong in jail and the one applying the choke should be guilty of 2nd degree or manslaughter.
Mike brown killed himself. You want to talk about his robbing the store as if that somehow justifies him being shot? It's irrelevant other than giving wilson the right to attempt arrest. The cops killed this guy.
Hazydat620
Well-Known Member
So thats all a cop has to say to get away with murder? What a bunch of cunt's.
Being Obese and out of shape exacerbates chronic asthma like Garner had. It was the asthma that killed him, but the POS cop used an illegal choke hold on the man in order to subdue him because Garner was resisting arrest. Its obvious Garner was resisting, he tried to slap officers hands out of the way. When will people learn that you CANNOT talk your way out of an arrest, trying to do is futile and only brings more trouble and possibly more charges. Even if you VERBALLY resist arrest, its still resisting.
Of course the Cop can't be found guilty, when will people learn that? If you start finding cops guilty of crimes for carrying out their duties, then most cops would resign and we would have a whole lotta trouble in the streets.
Of course the Cop can't be found guilty, when will people learn that? If you start finding cops guilty of crimes for carrying out their duties, then most cops would resign and we would have a whole lotta trouble in the streets.
The 4th amendment doesn't say you can't be arrested without an investigation or a warrant. All cops need to arrest you is PROBABLE CAUSE. A cop would have probable cause if he saw you selling loose cigs, or was informed by a plain clothes cop that someone was selling loose cigs.
If the cops wrongly arrested you, they will let you go, from there it is up to you to get a lawyer and make a case against them for the false arrest. The cops sure aren't going to help you.
I agree that cops need to be looking at real crimes, not penny ante tax on cigarettes.
Its not murder, manslaughter at the most. Murder suggests malice afforethought. The cop was not trying to end Garner's life, just get him to submit to physical arrest is all. The cop was dumb to use a banned hold though.
SmokeyDan
Well-Known Member
You don't have to contemplate their death to have malice afforethought.
All that is needed is a volutional act reasonably intended to do harm.
Since the choke hold was illegal, and made voluntarily, I think the elements are met.
Cops deserve to be protected when they act within the law. When they step outside of it they should, and I think are held to be just like any other citizen.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
I will say the same thing I did at the beginning of the Michael Brown incident. If the cops did what they are being accused of then they should be charged with a crime. The Michael Brown story turned out about 180 degrees from reality at the beginning.
Some cops are bad, some use excessive force but hindsight is perfect. They didnt know if he had any weapons, they didnt know how strong he was, etc.
First of all the cops intention was to bring the man into compliance, not intended to do harm. Second of all that particular choke hold isn't illegal at all, just against department policy.
Asthma killed him, and being really obese didn't help at all.
Could the cops have handled things differently? Certainly, but hindsight is always 20/20.