DiY LEDs - How to Power Them

[SupraSPL]

Come to think of it, I currently use some drivers that are 84% efficient. If I switched to the Mean Well HLG-185H-C700 at 240V (94-95% efficient), that would be a 13% increase in light/W, almost 2 bin increases. Just the excuse I need to spend more money, although I would appreciate the decrease in heat.

 

[caretak3r]

searched and didn't find a link - seems to be a great value for vero 10s, etc:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Philips-Advance-Xitanium-150W-35A-120-277V-LED-Driver-LEDINTA0350C425FO-/251422667632

Philips Advance Xitanium 150W @ 350ma, 120-435VDC for only $20 + shipping

 

[John L III]

Hi everybody. I'm just starting to read this thread, which is very long, and from what I can see has a great deal of information. But I wanted to ask this question that has me confused. I'm currently using T5s and some homemade CFLs. And all of them give off light that is in the white spectrum. Well I wanted to get into the LED part of the equation, so I went to eBay and ordered some different types to try out.



The bulb is "15 Watt , Cool white(5700K-6300K), 480-530lm", and the chip is "3W White(6000k) High Power LED Light Beads Diode Chip Bulbs 200~230 Lm.

Both are in the 6000k range, which is what is supposed to be great for green growth. However, now I am seeing all sorts of LED lighting that is both red and blue, instead of the regular white lighting of the other lights. Is it now required that for a LED to be a grow light, the white lighting is out, and the different colors are now in? I need some help here in order to understand this.

 

[Dloomis514]

check out the article in my signature, is a basic explanation of the type of questions you have

 

[nogod_]

This is awesome. Thank you.

searched and didn't find a link - seems to be a great value for vero 10s, etc:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Philips-Advance-Xitanium-150W-35A-120-277V-LED-Driver-LEDINTA0350C425FO-/251422667632

Philips Advance Xitanium 150W @ 350ma, 120-435VDC for only $20 + shipping

 

[John L III]

check out the article in my signature, is a basic explanation of the type of questions you have

That's an interesting coincidence. In the "grow-lights-we-like" the number one choice is the FLT24. I just happen to have the larger model, the FLT46, with 6 bulbs, and it seems to work well. The only problem with it was the shipping. Two of the T5 bulbs were broken, and I found that the way they ship the bulbs is less than optimum. But otherwise,..........................

I haven't had a chance to read the entire article yet, but it looks as though the time-lapse link to be about something else.

 

[John L III]

check out the article in my signature, is a basic explanation of the type of questions you have

Ok, here's one of the things I picked up regarding the white leds vs the dedicated colors.

Bugs can’t see the leaves as well if you leave out near-red and green spectrum lights, Harwood said, and some diseases and funguses are inhibited if you leave out certain spectra as well. “White” LEDs are actually groups of three or more single-wavelength LEDs put together to make light that looks white to humans—and to make your plants look like they belong on earth instead of on Death Zombie Planet.

And since we would be inside, who needs the white, correct? But still....my light is going to be downstairs in the basement, and not locked up. So I'll be able to see it, and white seems to be easier on me. But will be losing something as a result? And how much more efficient will the colored lights be? Remember, I'm just experimenting here. The T5 HydroFarm/EnviroGrow FTL46 is still my primary light.

 

[Dloomis514]

They liked that light, but not one mention of our crop of interest. That light would work for germination and veg, to a certain extent. But we ain't growing lettuce.

 

[John L III]

They liked that light, but not one mention of our crop of interest. That light would work for germination and veg, to a certain extent. But we ain't growing lettuce.

But you are stating two contradictory things here. First you point me to that article to read and understand. And now you are saying they are not related to what you are doing here. But overall, flowering plants really do have needs just as do marijuana plants. If you can easily grow one, you should be able to easily grow the other.

They all need light that is around both 3100k and 5600k. In the case of most plant grow lights, the first thing that is sent out is the higher end, 5600k, since greenery is of first import. But the lower spectrum, 3100k, has to also be added before the flowering stage, correct?

I'm aware of the special needs of both low and high spectrum. But my original question was about comparing the best LED light, that which is white, or that which is colored(blue and red) . Which really works best, and why does one work better over the other? That was my original question.

I would honestly like to know which will work best, and which gives the best bang for the buck.

 

[Dloomis514]

the article had a lot of good basic grow info, for plants with low end needs, but you are right, a lot of the same factors apply to our crops

 

[dimebagor]

Hmmm , little exercic in question form please :

Just for example ,

-driver 1 CC output 84V max ; 2.4A max non dimmable
-driver 2 CC output 84V max ; 2.4A max dimmable
-driver 3 CC+CV output 84V max ; 2.4A max dimmable on V and A
-driver 4 = driver 2 and 3 but multi channel option

Now if we want COB + some star Led (mono and white ) on one same driver , as we know : In typical +/- 5%
Cob value is 12[email protected]
star led white 3.5[email protected]
star led color 2V@700mA

what the mix and value we can have in the example ? like on driver 3 we can do that , on the driver 2 we can do like this ect ...
Not all the solution but the best for a grow lamp

 

[ReeferDance]

I'm aware of the special needs of both low and high spectrum. But my original question was about comparing the best LED light, that which is white, or that which is colored(blue and red) . Which really works best, and why does one work better over the other? That was my original question.

I would honestly like to know which will work best, and which gives the best bang for the buck.

I think the reason everyone is moving towards the white light emitting LED's is because they contain wave-lengths throughout the spectrum needed for growing marijuana and other plants. The 3000k Soft White don't emit a lot of blue, but emit more red. The 5000-6000k cool white has more blue and less red. But they all still look white to the human eye.

Take a look at the spreadsheets for the CXA 3070 and Vero 29 and you will get an idea of the spectrum they are emitting. Does that bring you closer to an answer you are looking for?

People are supplementing these white lights with royal blue or deep red.....Just to balance the spectrum out(Or purely for expirementation ). I.E. if you are running all 3000k COB's and are getting a lot of stretch early flower, or want more vigorous growth during veg you could supplement with several Royal Blue stars to give you the Blue wave-lengths the 3000k spectrum is lacking.

There are a few people here still trying to figure out what the "best" is, which is an extremely relative term. So far it looks like the Warm White COB's are kicking ass, and of you want a little more just fill in the blank wavelength spots with small LED's

 

[John L III]

I think the reason everyone is moving towards the white light emitting LED's is because they contain wave-lengths throughout the spectrum needed for growing marijuana and other plants. The 3000k Soft White don't emit a lot of blue, but emit more red. The 5000-6000k cool white has more blue and less red. But they all still look white to the human eye.

Take a look at the spreadsheets for the CXA 3070 and Vero 29 and you will get an idea of the spectrum they are emitting. Does that bring you closer to an answer you are looking for?

People are supplementing these white lights with royal blue or deep red.....Just to balance the spectrum out(Or purely for expirementation ). I.E. if you are running all 3000k COB's and are getting a lot of stretch early flower, or want more vigorous growth during veg you could supplement with several Royal Blue stars to give you the Blue wave-lengths the 3000k spectrum is lacking.

There are a few people here still trying to figure out what the "best" is, which is an extremely relative term. So far it looks like the Warm White COB's are kicking ass, and of you want a little more just fill in the blank wavelength spots with small LED's

Thanks RD. I think I am going to stick with the white LEDs, and play with different combinations. They appear to be overall more practical. And they are easier to obtain too.

I still need to wade through this thread. Sigh.........

 

[ReeferDance]

You're welcome!

I am just beginning to grasp the subject myself

It is pretty amazing what the COB's can produce. I have spent dozens of hours combing these threads a absorbing all the information. There are some very smart people here to say the least

My ideal set-up would include a mix of 3000k and 4000k CXA's or Vero's, I think the 4000k gives you a nice boost in the blue spectrum without taking much away from the red side.

 

[kamikaza]

Hello guys!

i am in a project of reaplacing 2 x 600w hps with CXA3070 build.

one lamp will be reaplaced by 16 COBs, mounted on four 39" long, 4.23" heatsink. stream of four COBs per bar, powered by MW HLG-120H-C1050B on each bar.



the second lamp will be reaplaced by 9 COBs, mounted on three 36" long, 4.23" heatsink.

the goal is that each build will use about 600w, with dimming option.

each one of the bars should be able to operate on it's own, and will have two 92mm fans, and small spu\adapter for the 12v fans

first build - each bar - 4 x 3070 at 1050mA, each COB - 36.25 vf, 38.06 W. total vf for the bar - 152.24

total consumption of the build - 608.96 W - good.

i am planing to use this for dimming - http://ac-rc.net/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=254&osCsid=ahor43emk4cakpgt76uivop3a3

do you think it can work with the HLG-120-1050, driving four 3070 in stream? the HLG data says it can only be dimmed down to 525mA, but in the video it looks like the guy is dimming all the way.

i choosed this dimmer coz it look easy, and you have the LCD display so you don't have to guess where you are, or use multimeter.

this video shows how it works -

i will use one of this adapter for the fans, and drew the dc power for the dimmer from there.

adapters - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/10pcs-DIY-Mini-LED-Power-Supply-AC-DC-Adapters-6W-500mA-Driver-100-240V-To-12V/1899950974.html

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1pcs-Durable-Universal-12W-LED-Driver-100-240V-50-60Hz-1A-Light-Lamp-Lighting-Transformers-12V/32221338331.html


do you think it's a good idea to use PWM dimming? or there are better options? i have read allmost everything about DIY led here, but i still can't figure out how the dimming works, or what parts i have to buy for set up a dimmer.

i have looked at this link that was posted here, but it all looks like chinese to me - http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/category/470050/potentiometers/6mm-shaft/1.html



for the second build i have a driver question -

as this build is only 9 COBs, 3 on each bar, they should operate at higher current in order to achive the same 600w as the first build.

so i guees each COB has to be driven at 1750mA, so about 67w per cob, 606 w for the 9 of them.

i wanted to do the same as with the first build, one driver per heatsink bar, driving the COBs in stream. but i couldnt find driver at thet current (1750mA) who is also able to drive the stream of 3 CXAs - their total vf is about 114 vf.

there are some options for driving each COB with small dimmble driver at that current, like the HLP-80H
http://www.meanwell.com/search/HLP-80H/default.htm

but at 40$ per driver, multiply by 9, that too much money.


so i think i will go with 9 cheap EBAY drivers, it's only 10$, and free shipping.

they are not dimmble, and only 1500mA, so the build will drew about 507w

does anyone have experiance with those drivers? it's the same logo on all.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2014-new-promotions-lowest-price-50W-1500ma-Flood-Light-Power-Supply-High-Power-LED-Driver-DC/1933707929.html

http://www.ebay.com/itm/50W-Watt-High-Power-LED-Driver-AC-110-265V-50-60HZ-Waterproof/131274527292?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20140602152332&meid=d52be122173c4f83acd3b37630d1c771&pid=100011&prg=20140602152332&rk=5&rkt=10&sd=160927171811

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-50W-Watt-High-Power-LED-Driver-AC-110-265V-50-60HZ-Waterproof/271521164083?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20140602152332&meid=d52be122173c4f83acd3b37630d1c771&pid=100011&prg=20140602152332&rk=1&rkt=10&sd=160927171811


another option i found for lighting the stream is the inventronics EUC-320S210DT(ST)

at 2100mA it's provide 76-152 vdc, enough for 3 CXAs, and is dimmble.

http://www.inventronics-co.com/upload/EUC-320SxxxDT(ST)_2014101405165109311.PDF

only problem is, it's not availble anywhere. i don't understand why they do things if nobody sell them.


so if someone has an idea for powering this stream, i will be happy to know - thanks!!

and special thaks to supraSPL for this thread

 

[SupraSPL]

Hey KK sounds like an awesome build you have in mind! I imagine you already realize this but 600W of CXA may double the yield of a 600HPS. For the second lamp, you could use the HLG-185H-C1400B. It can drive 3 CXA3070s so a perfect match for your setup. That would give you about 468W of dissipation but will still outyield a 600HPS.

The A version of the Mean Well has internal pot dimmer that goes down to about 50%, but the B version with external dimmer can to almost zero % although not advised to go below 10% I hear. You can use a simple 100K potentiometer to dim it and if you have a kill-a-watt you can monitor that as you adjust the dimmer. I have not tried the pwm dimmer bit it requires an external power source (you could use your fan PSU).

 

[kamikaza]

thanks for the reply supraSPL!

i know 468w is enough to reaplace 600w HPS sucssesfuly, but i want to have more buds then from the HPS...

so i would like the builds to be able to operate between 450-600w, like the first build. if i will use the hlg-185H-C1400 i can only dim from 468w downward.

if there would only be HLG-200H-C1750....


i am thinking now of using 9 x HLP-80H-42 - http://www.meanwell.com/search/HLP-80H/default.htm

3 for each bar, 1 for each COB.

can i conect 3 of them to one PWM, same one as i linked before?

or it's better to use potentiometer? 100k is good for one driver, and if i conect 3 driver i have to use 33k potentiometer?

if using 100k pot, is this one good? http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/pt-100k/100k-linear-taper-potentiometer-6mm-shaft/1.html

does it need a power source? it has 3 pins on it, but the driver only has 2 wires for dimming, red and black. how do i set up such dimmer? do i need anything else like resistor, or that piece is all i need for dimming?

sorry for so many questions, but this is the part of the project i can't understand clearly.

Thanks for all and happy new year!

 

[SupraSPL]

If you are feeling the urge to run them that hard, I would suggest the Vero29. It has a great thermal performance and resists current droop better than the CXA. Also it is a 150W COB so running it a 100W is possible. The downside is lower efficiency and not as even of a spread.

I am not sure how many drivers you could control with a single PWM, that migh be a question @stardustsailor could answer.

Yes you could use a 100K like the one you linked and a 33K would work for three drivers. You could use a 100K to control 3 drivers as well and it will adjust from 0-33K. If you want finer control you could get a potentiometer with more turns. It does not need a power source and you can connect it with pins 1 and 2. Very simple I love it!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BOURNS-Potentiometer-100K-10-Turn-Pot-P-N-3500S-2-104-/221643178721?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item339af682e1

 

[kamikaza]

Thanks for the answer supraSPL! your halp is priceless.

so you think 600w of COB power to cover 4' x 4' is too much? that about 38w per squere feet, recomended 25-35 w per feet?

it mey be a little bit too much, but if dimming down i can figure out the right power for the plants.

i know the vero29 is better at higher current, and probably i will use veros in future build. i don't realy want to drive it at more then 1750mA, i choosed the HLP-80H-42 (1950mA max) because it's a good option for it's price and availblity.


if i understand you correctly, i can use 100k potentiometer for one driver, but also for 3 drivers? and it will adjust itself?
i didn't find on their website 33k pot, so i better go with 50k pot for 3 drivers?
http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/slp-50k/50k-linear-slide-pot-dual-element/1.html

i have looked at the potentiometer you linked, is the only difference between it and the one from allelectronic is the fine tuning? there is a large price gap betwwen them, 0.75$ next to 12.50 for a brand new -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-pc-BOURNS-3590S-series-1K-5K-10K-100K-Trimmer-Potentiometer/231214766179?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20131003132420&meid=01ed087d5ded4464b476e239005ab9eb&pid=100005&prg=20131003132420&rk=3&rkt=6&sd=221643178721&rt=nc

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/pt-100k/100k-linear-taper-potentiometer-6mm-shaft/1.html


and if fine tuning is the only difference, what do you think about those potentiometers? -

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/slp-100ka/100k-audio-taper-dual-slide-pot/1.html

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/slp-100ka4/100k-audio-taper-slide-pot-4-element/1.html

http://www.allelectronics.com/make-a-store/item/slp-100k4a/100k-audio-slide-pot-4-channel/1.html

at 1 $ or 1.50 $ seems to be a good deal.

Thanks again!!

 

[John L III]

I'm really curious here. Has anyone here used the screw in light socket LED downlights? Either this one:



Or this:



The obvious advantage is that a custom power supply is not necessary. I have a good number of these bulbs coming in from China, where they really are very inexpensive. I want to play around with them, but it would be wonderful to find others who have actually worked with them before.

All of the bulbs are 15 watts(100W equivalent }, but have different dispersion patterns. The top bulb has a 60 degree angle for the 5-6000k, and only 45 degrees for the 3000k range. But the lower bulb has a claimed 160 degree dispersion angle. The different light dispersion angles really do offer some interesting possibilities.

Again, thoughts anyone?