Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I forgot to ask before. I thought I was on ignore? I did write Santa a letter and tell him my only wish was to be off your ignore list.
Thanks Obama!
Affordable?
- Thread starter desert dude
- Start date
I forgot to ask before. I thought I was on ignore? I did write Santa a letter and tell him my only wish was to be off your ignore list.
Thanks Obama!
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
No, I do not. I think people can make voluntary and consensual agreements that I do not like. My not liking their agreement doesn't mean they didn't make an agreement between themselves now does it?
I thought you were supposed to be smart?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
amazing how that wasn't funny the first time, second time, or Nth time you told it.
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
then why did you call pedophilia a voluntary agreement?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you were amazed. Thank you.
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that a minor that shits on a floor is too young to make a voluntary agreement with the bad man? How old were you when you could make a voluntary agreement and be responsible for your own choices?
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
that doesn't explain why you called pedophilia a voluntary agreement.
why do you think pedophilia is a voluntary agreement?
Rob Roy
Well-Known Member
In the hypothetical story about you and the bad man I said it was voluntary. Although, it could be a forced situation or a voluntary one couldn't it? So, in other words you might have made a voluntary agreement with the bad man, but that doesn't mean any other similar situations you may have been involved in were necessarily on a voluntary basis.
I believe I've stated that a person can understand that others can make voluntary agreements that he himself wouldn't make, yet that doesn't mean when others make those agreements they are not voluntary.
It seems like you get excited when you talk about this. You're not going to draw a penis cloud again are you?
Red1966
Well-Known Member
Or Chicago
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
please explain further about how a pedophile and a child enter into a voluntary agreement for sex acts. i am interested in your philosophy, and wonder if all libertarians like you also view pedophilia as a voluntary agreement.
sheskunk
Well-Known Member
Google wins again ...
https://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_voluntairy.htm
Voluntary relationships
For several decades now, sexologists have been conducting research into the phenomenon of voluntary "pedophile relationships". These are relationships which at least as long as they exist are experienced by the child as voluntary and in which there does not have to be any sexuality. We're talking about affectionate relationships between an adult with pedophile feelings (of erotic attraction or being in love) and a minor up to sixteen years of age.
One of the best known investigators in this field was Dr. Theo Sandfort of the State University of Utrecht. He studied children within voluntary pedophile relationships and reached the conclusions that they themselves experience such relationships as positive and really wanted them much more often than was generally believed.
Among other things he writes:
"The image that can be distilled from the stories of these boys and girls differs quite a lot from the way sexual contacts between adults and children are usually described in "scientific" literature. A-priori construing these as abuse and exploitation, adults and children are termed victims and offenders. It can't be doubted that there are children who fall victim to sexual abuse, the seriousness and frequency of this are possibly underestimated. The stories of these girls and boys are at the other end of the spectrum. (...) What's essential is that there are any girls and boys at all with other types of experiences that can't be conceptualized as abuse and exploitation. Whenever we are confronted by pedophilia or sex between children and adults in any way, we'd better take this into account."
(Meisjes over hun pedofiele vriendschappen met mannen, in Jeugd en Samenleving, Feb. 1983, 105-115, p. 114.)
An example of such a pedophile relationship is described in a book by Dr. F. Bernard, "Pedofilie" from 1975 (Bussum: Uitgeverij Aquarius). This book is about a boy from the western conglomeration of the Netherlands known as the Randstad who's having a steady relationship with a man of about sixty. He tells us:
"I find it beautiful, I like it, including the first time. I had a girl before but that isn't what I like. I always like doing it with my older friend. My parents don't know, but then they shouldn't know either. It is our secret. In my opinion they should change the law. That way there would be less assaults."
Voluntary pedophile relationships occur in all possible combinations, between girls and men, boys and men, and also between girls and women, and between boys and women. The child can be under or over 12 years old. There may be some type of erotic interaction, but in sharp contrast to cases of involuntary sexual contact, this interaction is always limited to what the child himself wants, based on his or her psychosexual development. In practice this often means just some cuddling, kissing and stroking, possibly combined with (mutual) masturbation or oral sex.
Voluntary pedophile relations aren't usually centered on a possible erotic dimension, but are first and foremost warm, reciprocal friendships with a lot of emotional intimacy. This emotional intimacy may therefore continue after the child has grown up, i.e. as a life-long friendship.
Harmless relationships
Now that we've seen that there are voluntary pedophile relationships, we have to ask whether this automatically implies that those relationships will also in the long run remain harmless for the children involved. Children sometimes want things they experience as positive, while those things may in reality harm their well-being, such as gambling or using hard drugs. This is the reason why gambling is illegal for minors in the Netherlands. We're talking about the age of consent, i.e. the minimum age you need to have to be able to consciously choose for something.
Fortunately, not everything children find agreeable is detrimental for them, so that it is worthwhile to ask ourselves whether pedophile relationships should be placed by definition within the category of all things "dangerous" or "damaging".
The best way to get an answer to this question is looking at the extent to which children who were voluntarily involved in pedophile relationships prospered later in life.
We can undertake this using several criteria of mental health and success and this has indeed been done by various researchers. Their studies indicate that if the pedophile relationships were voluntary, the child or youth will not suffer any negative consequences of it later in life, but exclusively neutral or positive consequences.
In the work by Frits Bernard I just quoted, he. states at page 27:
https://www.ipce.info/library_3/files/rivas_voluntairy.htm
Voluntary relationships
For several decades now, sexologists have been conducting research into the phenomenon of voluntary "pedophile relationships". These are relationships which at least as long as they exist are experienced by the child as voluntary and in which there does not have to be any sexuality. We're talking about affectionate relationships between an adult with pedophile feelings (of erotic attraction or being in love) and a minor up to sixteen years of age.
One of the best known investigators in this field was Dr. Theo Sandfort of the State University of Utrecht. He studied children within voluntary pedophile relationships and reached the conclusions that they themselves experience such relationships as positive and really wanted them much more often than was generally believed.
Among other things he writes:
"The image that can be distilled from the stories of these boys and girls differs quite a lot from the way sexual contacts between adults and children are usually described in "scientific" literature. A-priori construing these as abuse and exploitation, adults and children are termed victims and offenders. It can't be doubted that there are children who fall victim to sexual abuse, the seriousness and frequency of this are possibly underestimated. The stories of these girls and boys are at the other end of the spectrum. (...) What's essential is that there are any girls and boys at all with other types of experiences that can't be conceptualized as abuse and exploitation. Whenever we are confronted by pedophilia or sex between children and adults in any way, we'd better take this into account."
(Meisjes over hun pedofiele vriendschappen met mannen, in Jeugd en Samenleving, Feb. 1983, 105-115, p. 114.)
An example of such a pedophile relationship is described in a book by Dr. F. Bernard, "Pedofilie" from 1975 (Bussum: Uitgeverij Aquarius). This book is about a boy from the western conglomeration of the Netherlands known as the Randstad who's having a steady relationship with a man of about sixty. He tells us:
"I find it beautiful, I like it, including the first time. I had a girl before but that isn't what I like. I always like doing it with my older friend. My parents don't know, but then they shouldn't know either. It is our secret. In my opinion they should change the law. That way there would be less assaults."
Voluntary pedophile relationships occur in all possible combinations, between girls and men, boys and men, and also between girls and women, and between boys and women. The child can be under or over 12 years old. There may be some type of erotic interaction, but in sharp contrast to cases of involuntary sexual contact, this interaction is always limited to what the child himself wants, based on his or her psychosexual development. In practice this often means just some cuddling, kissing and stroking, possibly combined with (mutual) masturbation or oral sex.
Voluntary pedophile relations aren't usually centered on a possible erotic dimension, but are first and foremost warm, reciprocal friendships with a lot of emotional intimacy. This emotional intimacy may therefore continue after the child has grown up, i.e. as a life-long friendship.
Harmless relationships
Now that we've seen that there are voluntary pedophile relationships, we have to ask whether this automatically implies that those relationships will also in the long run remain harmless for the children involved. Children sometimes want things they experience as positive, while those things may in reality harm their well-being, such as gambling or using hard drugs. This is the reason why gambling is illegal for minors in the Netherlands. We're talking about the age of consent, i.e. the minimum age you need to have to be able to consciously choose for something.
Fortunately, not everything children find agreeable is detrimental for them, so that it is worthwhile to ask ourselves whether pedophile relationships should be placed by definition within the category of all things "dangerous" or "damaging".
The best way to get an answer to this question is looking at the extent to which children who were voluntarily involved in pedophile relationships prospered later in life.
We can undertake this using several criteria of mental health and success and this has indeed been done by various researchers. Their studies indicate that if the pedophile relationships were voluntary, the child or youth will not suffer any negative consequences of it later in life, but exclusively neutral or positive consequences.
In the work by Frits Bernard I just quoted, he. states at page 27:
"From a psychological investigation, which among other things used the ABV-test, no psychological damage could be established in these cases (...) We might generally say, that there is a number of children who doesn't suffer detrimental consequences from sexual contacts with adults and that there is a number among these, who is clearly influenced positively by these contacts."
A well-noted meta-analysis from 1998 which has confirmed this pattern was recently published by the investigators Rind, Tromovitch and Bauserman. They were quite heavily attacked by certain scholars and conservative groups because they would be justifying a dangerous perversion. Whereas in fact they just offer a survey of what is known on this subject.
Self-reports by adults who used to be involved in pedophile relationships as a child show the same results as the tests mentioned above. Adults turn out to report that they don't suffer any negative consequences from their voluntary pedophile relationships as children. An example of this is the testimony of a middle-aged woman:
A well-noted meta-analysis from 1998 which has confirmed this pattern was recently published by the investigators Rind, Tromovitch and Bauserman. They were quite heavily attacked by certain scholars and conservative groups because they would be justifying a dangerous perversion. Whereas in fact they just offer a survey of what is known on this subject.
Self-reports by adults who used to be involved in pedophile relationships as a child show the same results as the tests mentioned above. Adults turn out to report that they don't suffer any negative consequences from their voluntary pedophile relationships as children. An example of this is the testimony of a middle-aged woman:
"Perhaps you can't imagine this, but when I was twelve, I was deeply in love with a man of fifty and vice versa. I don't know who took the first step but we caressed each other and had sex with each other. It had a wonderful relaxing effect on me. One day my parents found out and called the police. The interrogation was horrendous. I kept on denying that anything had happened. Then I gave up. My older friend was arrested. After my parents had forced me to confess everything, they denounced him. After that, nothing could be done to reverse the course of events. I've never forgotten this. It was not fair. It could have been such a beautiful memory. Nowadays I'm married and have four children. I wouldn't object if they had [voluntary] contacts with adults. I consider it positive."
sheskunk
Well-Known Member
Is it okay to date my teacher?
I've been feeling like one of my teachers has been hitting on me. He is attractive, and technically he isn't my teacher--I had him last year. But he keeps hinting around that maybe we should get together sometime and go out. Would it be wrong of me if I did?
Tara, 17, Columbus, OH
http://www.seventeen.com/fun/articles/date-teacher-ds-0105
I've been feeling like one of my teachers has been hitting on me. He is attractive, and technically he isn't my teacher--I had him last year. But he keeps hinting around that maybe we should get together sometime and go out. Would it be wrong of me if I did?
Tara, 17, Columbus, OH
http://www.seventeen.com/fun/articles/date-teacher-ds-0105
sheskunk
Well-Known Member
http://www.click2houston.com/news/investigates/former-student-who-had-affair-with-teacher-speaks/28223946
The big list: Female teachers with students
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/39783/#2d0ic8PkkP4vhXKT.99
http://www.zimbio.com/The+50+Most+Infamous+Female+Teacher+Sex+Scandals
North Dakota Teacher of the Year had sexual affair with teen student http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teacher-year-sex-student-authorities-article-1.1917217
The big list: Female teachers with students
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/39783/#2d0ic8PkkP4vhXKT.99
http://www.zimbio.com/The+50+Most+Infamous+Female+Teacher+Sex+Scandals
North Dakota Teacher of the Year had sexual affair with teen student http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/teacher-year-sex-student-authorities-article-1.1917217
nitro harley
Well-Known Member
Buck.
There is really nothing funny about shitting on someones floor. Not even the first time you said it. Just so you know.
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
They wont let him leave of course!!!
ChesusRice
Well-Known Member
If he gets the Doctor to sign off that he isnt a danger to himself or others all he will need is a sponsor
NLXSK1
Well-Known Member
Are you volunteering??