flower tent and veg tent

[shaggy batman]

Introduction:
Hey guys, first post here and my knowledge is pretty small in the growing aspect, I've done about 50+hours online just searching up and reading information about many factors, and watched a few videos from youtube. But now i need advice that some reason seems difficult to find from searching. (maybe i just don't know the correct terminology used to find out the information).

Goal:
Anyways, I am going to get a grow tent and start growing, and I'm wanting to grow and yield about 3oz. every month of dry (but if it produces more, thats great). I'd also like to be on a perpetual growth, having 2 tents. 1 tent for flowering/harvesting, and 1 tent for veg/clones/motherplant.

I'm keeping safety a number one priority, i'd hate to have a fire happen, so i want to keep temperature controlled, lights staying cool, and wires not in a mess, everything clean and nice looking.

Budget:
I'd like to have a budged of $1250 but i could convince myself to go a couple hundred higher if needed but i hope not, it would be nice if it could even be less.

Details of the grow tent:
I was thinking about getting......
2 Tent:
--3x3 thats 7-8ft tall gorilla grow tent = flowering tent= $330
--2x2.5 and 6ft tall tent Gorilla Grow Lite= veg/clones/mother = $175 (thats including the 1ft extention to make it 7ft tall)

2 Questions about the tents :
1) is this to small? i was worried that the veg tent seems to small, but i have no idea i heard that the veg tent can be smaller because the plants usually double in size when flowering. I was thinking about having 3 clones, 3 flowering, and 1 mother plant.
2) Should one tent be of a higher quality then the other, if i was to get two different quality tents, should a veg tent be at higher quality or a flowering tent? I'm whiling to make only the higher quality a gorilla grow, and the make the lesser a cheaper brand, or even build it myself but i have ZERO knowledge on how to build a grow tent, but i can learn.

Accessories:
Apollo 600w HPS MH kit=flowering tent=$190
---includes: Reflector, HPS Bulb, MH Bulb , Digital Ballast, Pair of Hangers, Timer
Question on the light, specifically the ballast, does this have bad RF interference? (maybe this is a question better suited on a different thread) i heard this can cause some people a red flag of a grow op. link is here: http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK600LS24-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B005ECZQTY/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=growwcom07-20&linkCode=w01&linkId=AXWL34KKT53P6FJI&creativeASIN=B005ECZQTY

Hydrofarm Active Air 6 inch In-Line Fan 400 CFM - Hydrofarm ... x2 (one per tent)--80$ per

SE Electronic Stepless Speed Controller - SE --- x2 (one per fan)--$20 per

Dundas Jafine AF625ULPZW Aluminum Foil UL Listed and Marked Duct, 6-Inches by 25-Feet--- $20
i need recommendations for a veg/clone/mother light

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Total Estimate Cost: $910 + veg tent light cost + possible DWC system cost
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Super Noob Question:
i noticed many people combine a mother plant and clones in the same tent, but they don't say "vegetation", when people say they have a tent for clones, is that assumed they are going to vegetate in it? such a noob question i know, i feel that clones go directly into vegetation from day 1 after it grows its roots.. but i just want to make sure.

P.S. I am still debating on what growing system i should use (soil, hydro, DWC, etc.), i leaning towards the DWC system, but should that only be for my flowering plants? or for both clones and flowers? i need help with his too, i know this will increase my cost by a couple hundred.


P.S.S. Please recommend changes and any+all input is welcomed and thanked Also, thank you for taking your time to read this post!



Conculsion: I need recommendations on:
-a veg light, and size of a veg tent.
-a good DWC system for the setup im wanting.
-Wanting to yield 3oz of dry every month (or more).
-Curious about the ballast, if it has a bad RF interference.
-and PLEASE fix anything i have wrong!

Thank you

 

[GrowinDad]

A true perp grow may be a challenge as you don't have that much space. I would just do all at once into flwer and harvest every 8-10 weeks. Take clones before you move to flower. A psuedo perp grow.

Veg/clone/mother tent - all the same.

Can't help much on light as I grow LED.

Go soil to start. Whatever system, it is for the whole grow.

How hard is it to move in DXC/hydro from one tent to the other?

 

[shaggy batman]

A true perp grow may be a challenge as you don't have that much space. I would just do all at once into flwer and harvest every 8-10 weeks. Take clones before you move to flower. A psuedo perp grow.

Veg/clone/mother tent - all the same.

Can't help much on light as I grow LED.

Go soil to start. Whatever system, it is for the whole grow.

How hard is it to move in DXC/hydro from one tent to the other?

thanks for the reply!
the only reason i was thinking DWC is that i hear its faster to grow and harvest then soil, easier for when it comes time to flush, and i was afraid of spidermites and other bugs being attracted to the plant from soil, its why i was willing to spend a couple hundred bucks on a DWC system.

what if i change the tents to a 4x4 for flowering, and 3x3 for veg? or is that still to small for a true perp grow?

also what exactly is a psuedo perp grow? is that using only one tent, and somehow keeping the clones alive until its time to move them back into the tent, if so how do i do that?


would this be able to get me 3oz every months at least of dry? i still will be happy with any system, (soil, not true perp, etc.) as long as i can yeild that amount for each month it grew.


as for your last question, i have no idea what the answer would be, i was thinking about just having the DWC system setup in both tents and then just transplant them over when its time to move them. some reason i feel transplanting soil to a bigger pot is just as hard or harder, but then agian, i have zero experience. but now that i think of it, maybe i will just do soil, at least for my first year, it will cut down on the start up cost. anyways im still needing MUCH help with my first setup.


EDIT: what if i do 2 plants flowering, 2 plants clone, 1 mother. and scrog? idk any help for the best yield in a operation to yield 3oz per month of dry for personal use is welcomed

im willing to change my tent size to one big tent, maybe a 5x5 or 4x8, i bet it would be cheaper too.

 

[GrowinDad]

I am not an expert grower. Been doing it for about two years, all soil.

When I think perp grow, I think that in the veg tent there are plants at varying stages. In the flower the same. One plant just went in, once just about to harvest, etc. That seems like a lot of work for a novice to keep straight, manage different nute requirement etc.

So what I do is that two crops at a time. One in flower, one in clone/seedling/veg. When one harvest is done, the ones in the Veg tent go into the flower tent all at once. I cut clones off of them just before they go into the flower tent. Hope that makes sense.

I have never had an issue with bugs.

Some will disagree but I would assume 1.5-2 oz dry per plant, assume 8-10 weeks flower time assuming you are using indica dominant strains.

 

[shaggy batman]

I am not an expert grower. Been doing it for about two years, all soil.

When I think perp grow, I think that in the veg tent there are plants at varying stages. In the flower the same. One plant just went in, once just about to harvest, etc. That seems like a lot of work for a novice to keep straight, manage different nute requirement etc.

So what I do is that two crops at a time. One in flower, one in clone/seedling/veg. When one harvest is done, the ones in the Veg tent go into the flower tent all at once. I cut clones off of them just before they go into the flower tent. Hope that makes sense.

I have never had an issue with bugs.

Some will disagree but I would assume 1.5-2 oz dry per plant, assume 8-10 weeks flower time assuming you are using indica dominant strains.

ahh, okay makes sense, i see what your saying, thanks bro. so what you do is called a pseudo perp grow. thats pretty much what i was wanting too, i dont mind as long as its getting me 3oz per month. i've seen talk with both kinds of perp grow setups, so i can see why there is a different lingo. thanks for explaining.

better yet thanks for explaining that, i don't need a mother plant, i just clone the old clones when they are about to go into the flower tent, correct?

If its 1.5oz per plant every 2.5 months (0.6oz per plant per month), that means i need 3 plants (to be on the safe side) being harvested, and 3 vegging at a exact same time to yeild 3oz per month.
what tent sizes should i use to accomplish this?

EDIT: when you say 8-10weeks flowering, you mean like the plants full life cycle is 8-10 weeks, or once it enters the flowering room/tent it will stay in the flowering stage for 8-10weeks??? if thats only counting the flowering stage and not the full life cycle that seems really long! if thats the case then i will need 5 plants rotation all the time not 3

 

[GrowinDad]

Veg is as long as you like. Flowering stage (12-12 light) takes 8-10 weeks.

Yes, clone the clones and so on until you want a new strain. That's why I do, usually 4-5 cycles before I pop new seeds and try something new.

Figure you harvest every 3 months. If you want 3 oz per month then that is 9 per cycle, andf yes, 5-6 plants. You may harvest more, but better to be conservative.

And remember, first grow is a learning experience. Don't expect a ton, consider any harvest a win and keep it simple!

 

[shaggy batman]

Veg is as long as you like. Flowering stage (12-12 light) takes 8-10 weeks.

Yes, clone the clones and so on until you want a new strain. That's why I do, usually 4-5 cycles before I pop new seeds and try something new.

Figure you harvest every 3 months. If you want 3 oz per month then that is 9 per cycle, andf yes, 5-6 plants. You may harvest more, but better to be conservative.

And remember, first grow is a learning experience. Don't expect a ton, consider any harvest a win and keep it simple!

thanks so much for all the input, i guess this only leaves me with the question of how big should the 2 tents be to fulfill this goal?

 

[GrowinDad]

You can fit 5-6 in a 4x4. Veg tent can be smaller normally. Just depends on when you opt to put them into their final pots. In other words, in veg it is pretty much just a function of how much floor space you have and how much space your pots, tables, etc take up.

By flower tent is a little over 4x4. I have traditionally grown about 3 in 3 gallon pots and 1-2 in one gallon each grow. But my limit was light, not space.

My veg area is really only like 24x36 of usable space (and only about 30" tall). And I keep my basil in there as well. What I do is keep them vegging in one gallon pots until they are ready to go into the flower tent. If growing 3 plants, I usually have about 6 plants in one gallon pots so I pick which three to go with (and pull the clones off the them) and put them into 3 or 5 gal pots. And then the others I will usually stick on the outskirts of my light availability in the one gallon pots for some extra yield.

In theory, it helps control stretch because when they get the signal for 12-12 stretch they are also expanding their roots. But that's a theory I read on RIU that I'll stick with since it works for me. If I try to get them into their 3 gallon pots and back to the veg area, it can be done but gets tight.

 

[Beezcheeze]

I had that fan it is noisier than the same size vortex fan. Those fan speed controllers will make your fan hum even louder. Get insulated duct from Home Depot if that's a problem.i have 2 4x4 tents and 1 2x4 for veg and doing a perpetual thing. Rdwc setup in each 4x4 gorilla lite line tent(badass tents man I reccomend lite line.

Here's my opinion for you. Save your money on your veg tent and just make a cheap half assed enclosure out of mylar walls or reflectics insulation from Home Depot. Cheap out there. Then get 2 2x4 flower tents. You'll take clones off your mothers each month and then transfer your best 4 clones to one 2x4 flower tent. Do this each month and eventually you will have a new batch of cured dried bud each month which should be more than your 3 ounces your hoping for. 'd say lights for the veg tent you could do 3 small t5 fixtures 120 bucks total from the internet(. http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-2-Foot-4-Lamp-High-Output-T5 ). And light for your 3x3 tents could be 600 wat hps. 2 ocellating fans for either flower tent.
I'd do rdwc setup like I did. I can give you any tips you need on it just ask.

Price run down---
3 2x4 tents - $650 ish
2 600 watt lights - 600 ish
2 t5 light fixtures- 140 ish
2 6" inline fans - 200 ish
1 4" inline fan - 100
2 carbon filters 6x? - 250
3 oscillating fans - 90
Mount these on a 1x6 vertically across the back wall of the tent. Zip tie the 1x6 to the tent poles with zip ties the same as I've done my fans. look for a 3 pack of those active air fans. I got 18" and they are awesome.

^^ more like about 2000 bucks after all is said and done^^ but you have some of this already right

 

[Beezcheeze]

Just my first plant im messin around with and learning from

 

[warble]

Go with a 4x4 flower tent, coco/perlite. Yes, some ballasts give off too much rf. Keep your wifi far enough to not cause too much interference when your lights are on, I use a global greehouse ballast and I don't have any wifi interference. My microwave oven (same distance) does knock out my netflix every now and then.
I would run t5 lights for your seedling/veg area. Keep those t5s close or you will get stretch. I veg in solo cups as long as they stay nice, then three gallon fabric grow bags for less than two weeks, then 12/12. I had nine started in a 3x3 grow tray in my 4x4 tent. I lost one, took my eye off the ball, so I'm down to eight flowering. I have room for more, but I'm not doing a real perpetual harvest. It is a 600w perpetual grow. I just don't want to be trimming every two weeks. That would be like a job, not a medicinal hobby.

 

[GrowinDad]

I agree on skipping the fan speed controller. The one I bought is collecting dust.

 

[shaggy batman]

I had that fan it is noisier than the same size vortex fan. Those fan speed controllers will make your fan hum even louder. Get insulated duct from Home Depot if that's a problem.i have 2 4x4 tents and 1 2x4 for veg and doing a perpetual thing. Rdwc setup in each 4x4 gorilla lite line tent(badass tents man I reccomend lite line.

Here's my opinion for you. Save your money on your veg tent and just make a cheap half assed enclosure out of mylar walls or reflectics insulation from Home Depot. Cheap out there. Then get 2 2x4 flower tents. You'll take clones off your mothers each month and then transfer your best 4 clones to one 2x4 flower tent. Do this each month and eventually you will have a new batch of cured dried bud each month which should be more than your 3 ounces your hoping for. 'd say lights for the veg tent you could do 3 small t5 fixtures 120 bucks total from the internet(. http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-2-Foot-4-Lamp-High-Output-T5 ). And light for your 3x3 tents could be 600 wat hps. 2 ocellating fans for either flower tent.
I'd do rdwc setup like I did. I can give you any tips you need on it just ask.

Price run down---
3 2x4 tents - $650 ish
2 600 watt lights - 600 ish
2 t5 light fixtures- 140 ish
2 6" inline fans - 200 ish
1 4" inline fan - 100
2 carbon filters 6x? - 250
3 oscillating fans - 90
Mount these on a 1x6 vertically across the back wall of the tent. Zip tie the 1x6 to the tent poles with zip ties the same as I've done my fans. look for a 3 pack of those active air fans. I got 18" and they are awesome.

^^ more like about 2000 bucks after all is said and done^^ but you have some of this already right

thank you so much bro, that was really helpful!

what does RDWC stand for? couldnt find that on the acronym sticky note thread.

How big (LxWxH) should i make the veg tent? it would be a nice DIY project (which i plan to make a scrog net DIY project also, so i wouldn't mind that)

Also, i got a little confused, you recommended me building a veg tent, and buying two 2x4 tents, but then you talk about 600w lights for 3x3 tents? basically im a little confused on the tents, sounds like you had a typo and meant 2x4 when you typed 3x3.

could i instead just get one big flowering tent instead of two small, like a 4x4 gorilla grow lite tent (or 5x5 tent), and put one 1000W light inside, do the same grow techinique by putting 4 plants in each month, and having a total of 8 plants, rotating 4 plants in and out every month? i feel this would save money by having only one light, one slightly more expensive tent, one inline fan, and one carbon filter.


again thank you so much!

P.S. yeah, i don't mind putting in the extra hundred bucks.

 

[Beezcheeze]

thank you so much bro, that was really helpful!

what does RDWC stand for? couldnt find that on the acronym sticky note thread.

How big (LxWxH) should i make the veg tent? it would be a nice DIY project (which i plan to make a scrog net DIY project also, so i wouldn't mind that)

Also, i got a little confused, you recommended me building a veg tent, and buying two 2x4 tents, but then you talk about 600w lights for 3x3 tents? basically im a little confused on the tents, sounds like you had a typo and meant 2x4 when you typed 3x3.

could i instead just get a 4x4 gorilla grow lite tent (or one 5x5 tent), and put one 1000W light inside, do the same grow techinique by putting 4 plants in each month, and having a total of 8 plants, rotating 4 plants in and out every month? i feel this would save money by having only one light, one slightly more expensive tent, one inline fan, and one carbon filter.


again thank you so much!

P.S. yeah, i don't mind putting in the extra hundred bucks.

The typo was its a 2x4 for veg and either two 3x3 tents with 600 watts of light in each, or two 4x4 tents with 1000 watts in each. I guess 3x3 would work best for you. Or you could do 3 2x4 tents one for veg and two for flower. Hope this helps. I know you could pull off 3 ounces in 2x4 flower tents each month if you plan ahead and take clones at the right time for yor veg tent.

 

[Beezcheeze]

thank you so much bro, that was really helpful!

what does RDWC stand for? couldnt find that on the acronym sticky note thread.

How big (LxWxH) should i make the veg tent? it would be a nice DIY project (which i plan to make a scrog net DIY project also, so i wouldn't mind that)

Also, i got a little confused, you recommended me building a veg tent, and buying two 2x4 tents, but then you talk about 600w lights for 3x3 tents? basically im a little confused on the tents, sounds like you had a typo and meant 2x4 when you typed 3x3.

could i instead just get one big flowering tent instead of two small, like a 4x4 gorilla grow lite tent (or 5x5 tent), and put one 1000W light inside, do the same grow techinique by putting 4 plants in each month, and having a total of 8 plants, rotating 4 plants in and out every month? i feel this would save money by having only one light, one slightly more expensive tent, one inline fan, and one carbon filter.


again thank you so much!

P.S. yeah, i don't mind putting in the extra hundred bucks.

Yes what you said would work also. But for my setup it's just easier. I have recirculating deep water culture 4 bucket system in each of my 4x4 tents. The nutrient is all the same throughout the buckets so keeping the same size and maturity level of plants is important. The electric might be more than one tent but it works best for me as I'll make my money back every month for my extra electric cost easily.

 

[shaggy batman]

Yes what you said would work also. But for my setup it's just easier. I have recirculating deep water culture 4 bucket system in each of my 4x4 tents. The nutrient is all the same throughout the buckets so keeping the same size and maturity level of plants is important. The electric might be more than one tent but it works best for me as I'll make my money back every month for my extra electric cost easily.

how much do you yield out of one of those 4x4 tents when you harvest? do you use a 1000w light?

Im thinking i might just do 1 mother/clone tent, and 1 flower tent. the flower tent using the same setup as you have because I checked out the RDWC system and i really like it! also 1.5oz-2oz is my true goal, i only said 3oz because i know my first couple grows as a grower is going to be short of my goal.

I might copy your setup.
use a 4 bucket RDWC system
4x4 gorilla grow light (or 5x5 (wish they had lite in 5x5 /sad )
1000w light.
fan, ventilation, etc all included inside.

then build my own mother/clone tent and using the t5 like you recommended. only using the best 4 clones into the flower tent. is this possible? that would mean i would have to keep them in the veg tent twice as long.

If i can just yield even 1.5oz per month from that ill be a happy camper. thats a little over a gram a day. Or even if it yields 1.1oz a month so it is 1gram a day.


is there any RDWC systems you recommend that are good quality but not overly expensive? or do you recommend DIY?

 

[Beezcheeze]

I know I wanted 5x5s. I don't know much about anything but led grow lights. Area 51 led rw150s. I have 4 in each flower tent. And two w100s in my veg tent. The 4 lights is supposed to be equivelant to 1000 hps. If say you could use the same area with the same light throughout the grow. Is your light fixture able to use both hps and metal halide? I've heard people use kne bulb for veg and the other for flower. I put one plant under my 4 lights^^ and I bet I'll habe 3 ounces maybe a little less who knows. You'll get 3 ounces easy with 600 watt light and 4 plants. 1000 watt even more I bet depending on a few things about your grow. If I were you(and I don't know all yor variables and situation) but from what you've said I would try your grow in one area to learn like u said, and then decide if you want to just grow a bunch every 2 months with a 4x4 or 5x5 tent and 600 or 1000 watt light. And use your homeade area for veg(or just get a 2x4 tent). But if you can afford and want to copy my rdwc and want to harvest every month you'll have a ton on yor hands leftover. So maybe just do one badass 5x5 tent and 1000 watt down the road and just harvest every 2 months (common flower time).

 

[shaggy batman]

I know I wanted 5x5s. I don't know much about anything but led grow lights. Area 51 led rw150s. I have 4 in each flower tent. And two w100s in my veg tent. The 4 lights is supposed to be equivelant to 1000 hps. If say you could use the same area with the same light throughout the grow. Is your light fixture able to use both hps and metal halide? I've heard people use kne bulb for veg and the other for flower. I put one plant under my 4 lights^^ and I bet I'll habe 3 ounces maybe a little less who knows. You'll get 3 ounces easy with 600 watt light and 4 plants. 1000 watt even more I bet depending on a few things about your grow. If I were you(and I don't know all yor variables and situation) but from what you've said I would try your grow in one area to learn like u said, and then decide if you want to just grow a bunch every 2 months with a 4x4 or 5x5 tent and 600 or 1000 watt light. And use your homeade area for veg(or just get a 2x4 tent). But if you can afford and want to copy my rdwc and want to harvest every month you'll have a ton on yor hands leftover. So maybe just do one badass 5x5 tent and 1000 watt down the road and just harvest every 2 months (common flower time).

woops i edited my post above just as you replied.

i might do what i originally was thinking in my reply before i edited it just now, but basically what i was thinking was do 1 mother/clone tent, and 1 flower tent using the RDWC system

inside the clone tent i'd only use the best 4 clones and move them into the flower tent. that would mean i would have to keep them in the veg tent twice as long because i only have 1 flower tent. is this possible? or do you still think i should just stick with one tent from start to finish using a duel spectrum light and be able to yield 1.5oz per month.

this is a noobie question now, but how long does it take from seed/clone to harvest using a RDWC system? im assuming its much faster then soil. i think im getting my calculations mixed up because of this lol.

is there any RDWC systems you recommend that are good quality but not overly expensive? or do you recommend building a RDWC myself?

 

[Beezcheeze]

woops i edited my post above just as you replied.

i might do what i originally was thinking in my reply before i edited it just now, but basically what i was thinking was do 1 mother/clone tent, and 1 flower tent using the RDWC system

inside the clone tent i'd only use the best 4 clones and move them into the flower tent. that would mean i would have to keep them in the veg tent twice as long because i only have 1 flower tent. is this possible? or do you still think i should just stick with one tent from start to finish using a duel spectrum light and be able to yield 1.5oz per month.

this is a noobie question now, but how long does it take from seed/clone to harvest using a RDWC system? im assuming its much faster then soil. i think im getting my calculations mixed up because of this lol.

is there any RDWC systems you recommend that are good quality but not overly expensive? or do you recommend building a RDWC myself?

I don't u der stand what you mean by you'd have to keep them in the veg tent twice as long. If you decide a one grow room method and using dual spectrum light then you could get what your looking for but you can't crop out every month if your using rdwc. More like every 3 months. Which I recomend doing yourself using some of the tips I posted above^. The systems they sell are so overpriced and you wont have any leaks if you do it right. If you decide to go two tent route you could harvest every 2 months or more. However long the flower phase of those strains are and using the rdwc will make it simple for maintaining. Stick with your one room for now if you have the equipment needed. But if you need more equipment make sure it can be used if you decide to make 2 seperate areas. Don't want to order unnecessary thjngs if your just gonna upgrade next grow. But yes you will learn a ton of what you need by doing any kind of a first grow.

 

[shaggy batman]

I don't u der stand what you mean by you'd have to keep them in the veg tent twice as long. If you decide a one grow room method and using dual spectrum light then you could get what your looking for but you can't crop out every month if your using rdwc. More like every 3 months. Which I recomend doing yourself using some of the tips I posted above^. The systems they sell are so overpriced and you wont have any leaks if you do it right. If you decide to go two tent route you could harvest every 2 months or more. However long the flower phase of those strains are and using the rdwc will make it simple for maintaining. Stick with your one room for now if you have the equipment needed. But if you need more equipment make sure it can be used if you decide to make 2 seperate areas. Don't want to order unnecessary thjngs if your just gonna upgrade next grow. But yes you will learn a ton of what you need by doing any kind of a first grow.

ok thanks a ton!

ill do 1 tent for now. using a 1000w light, i was going to do duel spectrum but couldnt find a set on amazon, so ill just do the set which comes with both HPS and MH bulbs and just use MH for veg, and switch it to HPS when its time to flower.

5x5 gorilla grow.....................$450
Apollo 1000w HPS/MH set...$250
ducts.....................................$20
incline fan..............................$100
2 osculating fans...................$60
carbon filter...........................$125?
DIY RDWC system...............$120~$150? guessing i need to research that

~total............$1165

hell yeah thats definatly in my budget range!! how does this sound to you?


the only problem is that i would like to have a mother plant (or two) to keep so i dont have to keep buying seeds. feminized seeds cost a bunch !!

i might wait until after my first grow to start working on a project for a mother plant/clones but maybe i won't. but still would like to hear some suggestions on fixing this issue of no place for clones and mother plant