...All Things Vero...

[SupraSPL]

maybbe your right better playing it safe and not wasting the money if it advises against it so better to get 2 or 3 20w drivers and run each led on there own so that way no fighting over current. would you say 40w of vero 13 would be sufficient for rooting clones in a pc case or go with 60w?

May sound crazy but I think you could get good results with as little as 2W for rooting clones in a PC case. I am using 1W XML2 for clones in a 12"X18" tote. Clones root in 7-10 days every time.

So you could use a single Vero10 5000K and run it at 150mA (4W) 45.5% efficient, cost $2.58/PAR W.

Or you could use these 5700K XPL. If you run them @ 600mA (1.75W) 57.5% efficient, cost $4.65/PAR W. 3X3W drivers (600mA)

 

[pedrovski]

May sound crazy but I think you could get good results with as little as 2W for rooting clones in a PC case. I am using 1W XML2 for clones in a 12"X18" tote. Clones root in 7-10 days every time.

So you could use a single Vero10 5000K and run it at 150mA (4W) 45.5% efficient, cost $2.58/PAR W.

Or you could use these 5700K XPL. If you run them @ 600mA (1.75W) 57.5% efficient, cost $4.65/PAR W. 3X3W drivers (600mA)

what makes you say the xpl leds? just the efficiency? i do have a couple of these drivers spare so may be better just getting like 4 of these leds https://www.fasttech.com/products/1110810

 

[SupraSPL]

Yes those would be perfect for XPLs. The reason I mention XPL is because they are "smaller" than Vero10s and the highest efficiency in that category. Also because the very cool white XML2 was not available in top bin last I checked.

 

[pedrovski]

Yes those would be perfect for XPLs. The reason I mention XPL is because they are "smaller" than Vero10s and the highest efficiency in that category. Also because the very cool white XML2 was not available in top bin last I checked.

the pc case that i have has a 12v power supply already in it would it work well to just run 4 of these xpl leds in series with that 12v power supply that would mean 3v & 1.3amps per led with that so would mean around 15w from that or would it be better using the driver and less wattage?

 

[AquariusPanta]

OK good that helps out. Good to know its more efficient the higher its ran. I guess that should have been common sense due to the fact the Vero is made to run hard. Yeah I checked out the HLG models but as you said I noticed they're more expensive and sense I'm only adding one for supplemental lighting I chose a less expensive route. When I do decide to run a full COB setup I'll just get everything that's best for that setup. Appreciate the insight. Curious to know why you didn't mention the NPF-90D-42?

I'm not familiar with the NPF series (it looks new).
While I'm not experienced with CC+CV drivers, you could try it if you felt brave but something tells me the lack of range may cause more trouble than happiness (42V). At ~2A, the COB may want only 39V, while the driver is giving it too much (42V), which could result in the driver exploding and burning down your neighborhood (a little dramatic).

I see no advantage of choosing the NPF over the others, as it is more expensive and functionality looks to me the same if not less helpful with the NPF.

the pc case that i have has a 12v power supply already in it would it work well to just run 4 of these xpl leds in series with that 12v power supply that would mean 3v & 1.3amps per led with that so would mean around 15w from that or would it be better using the driver and less wattage?

I'm guessing that 1.3A would be too high for little 10W stars, as they only run ~3V. I'd try for a driver that gives off ~500mA and call it good.

 

[SupraSPL]

Yes that should work, although if there are significant variations in Vf some XPLs will get more current than the others. Also I would warn that a large PSU could sabotage the efficiency of your build in several ways. Some have very low efficiency at low loads and it may have a significant idle power consumption just by being plugged in. Supposedly the newer power supplies behave better, maintaining a ~70% efficiency even with a low load but I have not tested this.

4 XPLs at 1.3A would be 17W of dissipation. Depending on the size of your PC case, that could be enough intensity for flowering good sized nugs. If the light is too bright, it encourages the cuttings to try and respirate and photosynthesize and without roots that can cause them to wilt. When growers see the wilt they try to make up for it by increasing humidity and decreasing air flow, which can lead to rotting. The best way to make cuttings in my opinion is to use dim but direct light. That keeps them from trying to flower, but also keep them from trying to grow too much. That way they will not wilt, will not rot and do not need very high humidity to maintain turgidity. For whatever reason it seems like the plants that maintain turgidity have a better chance of rooting and taking off.

I think I have a driver that puts out 900mA and have a low Vf range I will try to track it down. If you used a pair of XPLs in series at 900mA, that would be very high efficiency, cheap and should be plenty bright for cloning.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Yes that should work, although if there are significant variations in Vf some XPLs will get more current than the others. Also I would warn that a large PSU could sabotage the efficiency of your build in several ways. Some have very low efficiency at low loads and it may have a significant idle power consumption just by being plugged in. Supposedly the newer power supplies behave better, maintaining a ~70% efficiency even with a low load but I have not tested this.

4 XPLs at 1.3A would be 17W of dissipation. Depending on the size of your PC case, that could be enough intensity for flowering good sized nugs. If the light is too bright, it encourages the cuttings to try and respirate and photosynthesize and without roots that can cause them to wilt. When growers see the wilt they try to make up for it by increasing humidity and decreasing air flow, which can lead to rotting. The best way to make cuttings in my opinion is to use dim but direct light. That keeps them from trying to flower, but also keep them from trying to grow too much. That way they will not wilt, will not rot and do not need very high humidity to maintain turgidity.

I think I have a driver that puts out 900mA and have a low Vf range I will try to track it down. If you used a pair of XPLs at 900mA that would be very high efficiency, cheap and should be plenty bright for cloning.

(Best answer ^)

Supra, can those stars handle more than 1A of current? It seems like a whole lot to me but then again, my 3W IR stars handle ~500mA fairly well so maybe I'm just a wee bit inexperienced on this one.

 

[SupraSPL]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-10W-AC-DC-Voltage-Transformer-Tube-Light-Waterproof-LED-Driver-900mA-Power-/310924747774?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item48648f23fe

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10W-12V-Electronic-Transformer-AC-DC-Adapter-LED-Driver-F-High-Power-Lamp-Light-/300777754508?pt=US_Lighting_Parts_and_Accessories&hash=item4607c04f8c

@AquariusPanta yes they are little monsters, rated up to 3A. But just like the CXAs, once you are driving the XML2 or XPL hard (6-7W), the Vero10 overtakes them in efficiency and cost.

 

[mrrager420]

I'm not familiar with the NPF series (it looks new).
While I'm not experienced with CC+CV drivers, you could try it if you felt brave but something tells me the lack of range may cause more trouble than happiness (42V). At ~2A, the COB may want only 39V, while the driver is giving it too much (42V), which could result in the driver exploding and burning down your neighborhood (a little dramatic).

I see no advantage of choosing the NPF over the others, as it is more expensive and functionality looks to me the same if not less helpful with the NPF.

Oh OK gotcha. I was thinking the COB would just use the 39V it was made for and the extra was just extra. But I see what you're saying. I went ahead and ordered the LPF-90-42. Just about everything is ordered now. Haven't heard from digikey though. How long does it usually take to hear from them. Placed order 3-4 days ago. Thanks

 

[AquariusPanta]

Oh OK gotcha. I was thinking the COB would just use the 39V it was made for and the extra was just extra. But I see what you're saying. I went ahead and ordered the LPF-90-42. Just about everything is ordered now. Haven't heard from digikey though. How long does it usually take to hear from them. Placed order 3-4 days ago. Thanks

I don't remember if they send confirmations or not but their orders typically take less than seven business days to reach me.

 

[coolbreez1]

Digikey is normally very reliable in there shipping times, and if you are ordering LEDs I would recommend using US priority mail for shipping if you are in the US it is super cheep and fast. You should have very good results with the LPF-90-42 I am currently have two arrays of Vero 29s that are being powered by the LPF-90-42 and so far the results are fantastic.

I am planning my next build... Planning to write something up and post for input soon. Want to stay with the Vero 29 as the base lights and add in some more control systems and supplemental far red, and use bigger heat sinks from heat sink USA, fewer fans...I will post something later today with more information.

 

[pedrovski]

It's actualy a Xbox power brick I have in the pc but will just chuck it and go with 4 of them on the 650ma driver that I have. I didn't realise that having the light too strong caused them not too root as I had 6 clones in a diy bubbler under a 50w 6000k cree led and they just wouldn't root, I guess that's why they didn't.

Yes that should work, although if there are significant variations in Vf some XPLs will get more current than the others. Also I would warn that a large PSU could sabotage the efficiency of your build in several ways. Some have very low efficiency at low loads and it may have a significant idle power consumption just by being plugged in. Supposedly the newer power supplies behave better, maintaining a ~70% efficiency even with a low load but I have not tested this.

4 XPLs at 1.3A would be 17W of dissipation. Depending on the size of your PC case, that could be enough intensity for flowering good sized nugs. If the light is too bright, it encourages the cuttings to try and respirate and photosynthesize and without roots that can cause them to wilt. When growers see the wilt they try to make up for it by increasing humidity and decreasing air flow, which can lead to rotting. The best way to make cuttings in my opinion is to use dim but direct light. That keeps them from trying to flower, but also keep them from trying to grow too much. That way they will not wilt, will not rot and do not need very high humidity to maintain turgidity. For whatever reason it seems like the plants that maintain turgidity have a better chance of rooting and taking off.

I think I have a driver that puts out 900mA and have a low Vf range I will try to track it down. If you used a pair of XPLs in series at 900mA, that would be very high efficiency, cheap and should be plenty bright for cloning.

 

[bicit]

Hmm any thoughts about using 10 vero 18's @700ma vs 5 vero 29's @1000ma? For a 36"x 18" sections of space.

Build cost is similar. Weighing my options between system efficiency and coverage uniformity.

A light with only five vero 29's on one heatsink with one fan would have a higher system efficiency. However the light would be most of the light would be in the center 12" of the space, with a larger percentage only covering 6" (assuming a 12" hanging height and my trig is correct).

A light with ten vero 18's deffinetly spreads the light out more evenly. However I would need a second heatsink and fan in order to get the proper coverage, so system efficiency suffers and build cost goes up.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Hmm any thoughts about using 10 vero 18's @700ma vs 5 vero 29's @1000ma? For a 36"x 18" sections of space.

Build cost is similar. Weighing my options between system efficiency and coverage uniformity.

A light with only five vero 29's on one heatsink with one fan would have a higher system efficiency. However the light would be most of the light would be in the center 12" of the space, with a larger percentage only covering 6" (assuming a 12" hanging height and my trig is correct).

A light with ten vero 18's deffinetly spreads the light out more evenly. However I would need a second heatsink and fan in order to get the proper coverage, so system efficiency suffers and build cost goes up.

I'm operating in the same area, how funny!

Currently I'm set on a total of 6x Vero 18's, with 4x of them running at 700mA and the other 2x at 1050mA. While my light setup would work from seedling to budding, I eventually will upgrade the 4x running at 700mA to Vero 29s. Each Vero has it's own dedicated HS/Fan (Arctic Alpine 11s).

If the financial backing is firm, try 5-6x Vero 29's at 700mA.

 

[DonPetro]

Anyone have experience with these cheapo drivers from ebay? The damn wires on the dc side seem to be backwards. Can i assume that they are connected properly within driver...black to +, red to -? If so i will just do red to black and black to red coming from the ezmate harness.

 

[bicit]

Well I'm looking at using a single high voltage power supply. While it would be possible to fit eight v29's on a HLG-185H-C700, it would only be 4.5%ish more efficient, but would also tack on another $100 to the build over the V18. I'm not sure it would be worthwhile.

While I think the alpine 11 is a great cooling option for DIY'ers. My rig for the solo cup comp utilizes alpines. However a nice heatsink from heatsink usa is cheaper and more aesthetically pleasing.

 

[Abiqua]

Anyone have experience with these cheapo drivers from ebay? The damn wires on the dc side seem to be backwards. Can i assume that they are connected properly within driver...black to +, red to -? If so i will just do red to black and black to red coming from the ezmate harness.
View attachment 3340417

i like to pop the cases open to see if markings are on the board itself.....

 

[AquariusPanta]

Well I'm looking at using a single high voltage power supply. While it would be possible to fit eight v29's on a HLG-185H-C700, it would only be 4.5%ish more efficient, but would also tack on another $100 to the build over the V18. I'm not sure it would be worthwhile.

While I think the alpine 11 is a great cooling option for DIY'ers. My rig for the solo cup comp utilizes alpines. However a nice heatsink from heatsink usa is cheaper and more aesthetically pleasing.

It looks as if you've found an answer to your question .

I originally planned around using a HS from USA for my main grow light while in the initial design phase (after creating the Crowns) but after drawing up various concepts, settled on a much more modular design that incorporated the Alpines.

 

[DonPetro]

i like to pop the cases open to see if markings are on the board itself.....

Good call. Thanks man.

 

[Abiqua]

Good call. Thanks man.
View attachment 3340456

Nice, glad it worked...just had this problem with a power supply the other day....no markings for either 4 wires and had to get at the board to make sure which was which, I was lucky too...