quantumwot
Well-Known Member
i think we've discovered that if it really REALLY did cure cancer better than medical ways. ........ It would make WORLD NEWS and not a youtube vid ..... A bit like you ha
Why should anyone believe in Jesus, God, your religion, etc.?
- Thread starter Nevaeh420
- Start date
Nevaeh420
Well-Known Member
How many times are you going to spam the same exact thing?i think we've discovered that if it really REALLY did cure cancer better than medical ways. ........ It would make WORLD NEWS and not a youtube vid ..... A bit like you ha
I already gave you a rebuttal.
~PEACE~
Nevaeh420
Well-Known Member
Even if its a fact that there was a historical Jesus, the Biblical Jesus is a fallacious myth.
The fact is that we probably don't know what the historical Jesus actually said: I highly doubt the disciples could quote Jesus verbatum, especially with lengthy speeches.
And we know that the disciples made up blatant lies anyways, because no one can perform miracles: so who is to say that they didn't make up Jesus' alleged sentiment or words?
Yes, its possible that there was a historical Jesus that the New Testament was based off of, but the Biblical Jesus is a fallacious myth, and I don't believe in Jesus because of the Bible, because the Bible is not even credible.
Most likely, the stories about Jesus are extremely exaggerated at the very least, and maybe Jesus didn't even exist at most.
The Bible is not even credible.
~PEACE~
Mad Lab
Active Member
While you may contest that Jesus was a fallacy because these miracles are 'impossible', that's where I think your making a mistake.
First off, science is a funny thing. This word you use "impossible" and "truth" are very touchy terms and in fact, any real scientist would refrain from using them.
Why? because science doesnt teach truth. All it does is provide the best theory possible at the time which makes it the most valid. But as we all know that theory is most likely going to be proven wrong and improved or tossed out altogether in due time, as is most theory.
So if I told you something is true today but might not be true tomorrow... was it true in the first place? not by definition. So, no.
So when you tell me Jesus could not have preformed these miracles, here is a hypothesis to throw at you. Prove it is impossible for me:
Humans use how much of their brain? 10%? Ok, well what if we unlocked the other 90%? Or even another 40%? It's just hypothesis but most would agree that these "miracles" like healing sick etc etc could most certainly be preformed.
And there is a mythbuster type show for biblical miracles that prove science could have implemented them given the right circumstance, like one they did on parting a sea.
I think your looking too much at science my friend, when science lied to us about almost everything. Today we know it lied. But you still trust it so much.. funny. It wont make you happy or content in this world. I urge you to find what will.
I love science. But worship it? no thanks. What I would love to debate with an Atheist about is not science vs god (thats silly, god speaks in numbers, he is science). But lets talk about what in Jesus ' overall philosophy is not true to you or violates your own objective/subjective moral values.
The thing about if historical Jesus exist, If would have been near 'impossible' for him or the apostles to lie to the masses. They would have been stoned immediately. You claim miracles in those days, you better come through. And the odds everything was made up after his death with the apostles? Not likely men would suffer and die for nothing. Because they wouldnt have recieve any special treatment from pushing this theology.
These non-christian historians I speak of also conclude that based on the requirements for determining historical evidence it is overly likely that the resurrection took place. Funny thing to hear an athiest or agnostic historian say "yeah Jesus was real and the ressurection was likely real, but It's unlikely the Bible wasnt altered or changed in 2000 yrs, so im not a christian"
I love the dead sea scrolls, trying to hide them from the masses for so many years. They proved that in over a 500 year period the Old Testiment was not changed at all! Amazing, no? Mankind, who changes everything in the name of power and money didnt change the book when it would have been so easy to thousands of years ago? Now THAT's a miracle.
First off, science is a funny thing. This word you use "impossible" and "truth" are very touchy terms and in fact, any real scientist would refrain from using them.
Why? because science doesnt teach truth. All it does is provide the best theory possible at the time which makes it the most valid. But as we all know that theory is most likely going to be proven wrong and improved or tossed out altogether in due time, as is most theory.
So if I told you something is true today but might not be true tomorrow... was it true in the first place? not by definition. So, no.
So when you tell me Jesus could not have preformed these miracles, here is a hypothesis to throw at you. Prove it is impossible for me:
Humans use how much of their brain? 10%? Ok, well what if we unlocked the other 90%? Or even another 40%? It's just hypothesis but most would agree that these "miracles" like healing sick etc etc could most certainly be preformed.
And there is a mythbuster type show for biblical miracles that prove science could have implemented them given the right circumstance, like one they did on parting a sea.
I think your looking too much at science my friend, when science lied to us about almost everything. Today we know it lied. But you still trust it so much.. funny. It wont make you happy or content in this world. I urge you to find what will.
I love science. But worship it? no thanks. What I would love to debate with an Atheist about is not science vs god (thats silly, god speaks in numbers, he is science). But lets talk about what in Jesus ' overall philosophy is not true to you or violates your own objective/subjective moral values.
The thing about if historical Jesus exist, If would have been near 'impossible' for him or the apostles to lie to the masses. They would have been stoned immediately. You claim miracles in those days, you better come through. And the odds everything was made up after his death with the apostles? Not likely men would suffer and die for nothing. Because they wouldnt have recieve any special treatment from pushing this theology.
These non-christian historians I speak of also conclude that based on the requirements for determining historical evidence it is overly likely that the resurrection took place. Funny thing to hear an athiest or agnostic historian say "yeah Jesus was real and the ressurection was likely real, but It's unlikely the Bible wasnt altered or changed in 2000 yrs, so im not a christian"
I love the dead sea scrolls, trying to hide them from the masses for so many years. They proved that in over a 500 year period the Old Testiment was not changed at all! Amazing, no? Mankind, who changes everything in the name of power and money didnt change the book when it would have been so easy to thousands of years ago? Now THAT's a miracle.
quantumwot
Well-Known Member
see the LIGHT George 
a cheese tomato pizza's good ...... Yes ?
sub-conciously ...... Correct ....
peace peace peace
a cheese tomato pizza's good ...... Yes ?
sub-conciously ...... Correct ....
peace peace peace
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
If the bible is not credible, then how can you reason that you fulfilling some of its prophecies is support for your divinity? If it is not credible, its prophecies are mere guesses and the fact that you think you've fulfilled some of them is meaningless coincidence. I'd love to hear the explanation for this...
tyler.durden
Well-Known Member
Theory is the highest form of knowledge in science, and the term does not mean the same as it does in casual, layman vernacular. Scientific theory certainly allows for incorporating new data as our technology to discover such data improves, and that is the beauty of science. It is a dynamic process, not a static one as most all religion is. You say most scientific theory is proven incorrect or tossed out, would you please provide links to credible sources to support this statement? I study science, and I don't know what you a referring to...
We use all of our brain, the percentage thing is a myth - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_percent_of_brain_myth
You'd have to link to that data, I'm betting that is misinformation from bias christian website...
How has science lied to us about almost everything? Would you give a few examples of this?
This doesn't sound right, how would ignorant, bronze age people know when they are being lied to? Please link to some credible data to support your statements here...
There are some respected scholars that believe Jesus did not actually exist. But forget about that. I have never heard of a non theist historian claim the supernatural resurrection was likely real, pretty please link to that for us...
Mad Lab
Active Member
http://www.toptenz.net/top-10-most-famous-scientific-theories-that-turned-out-to-be-wrong.php
My point exactly, people don't understand that a theory is not "A 100% TRUE FACT" so to speak. The best theory is considered fact but can change or improve or be thrown out.
Ah, you got me there, didn't you? Well, it was pulled out of thin air and I really didn't look into it.
My point is we don't know everything. To say it's impossible for a man to walk on water or heal a sick person is just a theory. Theories based on facts are great, but they arn't always 100% true, are they?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11383620
I don't mean to say it that way. Scientist don't look at science like a normal everyday person with an opinion on it. A normal person's outlook on a proven fact is that it is 100% true. I can't remember but a fact is what, approx 95% true?
Failure to meet one challenge makes a law untrue, but there's always new challenges possible in the future.
Lets see the Definition of Fact:
Fact: In science, an observation that has been repeatedly confirmed and for all practical purposes is accepted as “true.” Truth in science, however, is never final and what is accepted as a fact today may be modified or even discarded tomorrow.
Theory: In science, a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses.
I can't explain the Bronx Age to you in a post. Please research that yourself and let me know if that is ignorant.
If you say your the son of God, do you really think those ignorant people are just going to believe you? that's very ignorant of you, don't you think?
People most likely wanted proof before they believed in this messiah. Name another man in history that claimed to be a god and stood a great test of time? Jesus is unique because as ignorant as these people were at that time, why did no other crazy prophet claimed to be god and everyone believed? And proved it by the ressurection (or at least proved to history)
Forgive me, I ment to say that some non-christians scholars state it is a historical fact that some of Jesus’ followers came to believe that he had been raised from the dead soon after his execution.
The same scholars on the subject believe the Apostles arn't lying and no motive was evident, (historically we look at the evidence we have, no room for hypothesis for what could have happened) and their would be no reason for them to die for a liar. Bart Ehrman is apparently hung up on what happened after couldnt be the same word of Jesus. Scribes would have had to change words as time passed throughout copying the gospels.
E.P. Sanders:
That Jesus’ followers (and later Paul) had resurrection experiences is, in my judgment, a fact. What the reality was that gave rise to the experiences I do not know. “I do not regard deliberate fraud as a worthwhile explanation. Many of the people in these lists were to spend the rest of their lives proclaiming that they had seen the risen Lord, and several of them would die for their cause. Moreover, a calculated deception should have produced great unanimity. Instead, there seem to have been competitors: ‘I saw him first!’ ‘No! I did.’ Paul’s tradition that 500 people saw Jesus at the same time has led some people to suggest that Jesus’ followers suffered mass hysteria. But mass hysteria does not explain the other traditions.” “Finally we know that after his death his followers experienced what they described as the ‘resurrection’: the appearance of a living but transformed person who had actually died. They believed this, they lived it, and they died for it.”[1]
Bart Ehrman:
It is a historical fact that some of Jesus’ followers came to believe that he had been raised from the dead soon after his execution. We know some of these believers by name; one of them, the apostle Paul, claims quite plainly to have seen Jesus alive after his death. Thus, for the historian, Christianity begins after the death of Jesus, not with the resurrection itself, but with the belief in the resurrection.[2]
Ehrman also says:
We can say with complete certainty that some of his disciples at some later time insisted that . . . he soon appeared to them, convincing them that he had been raised from the dead.[3]
Ehrman also goes onto say:
Historians, of course, have no difficulty whatsoever speaking about the belief in Jesus’ resurrection, since this is a matter of public record.[4]
Why, then, did some of the disciples claim to see Jesus alive after his crucifixion? I don’t doubt at all that some disciples claimed this. We don’t have any of their written testimony, but Paul, writing about twenty-five years later, indicates that this is what they claimed, and I don’t think he is making it up. And he knew are least a couple of them, whom he met just three years after the event (Galatians 1:18-19).[5]
Reginald Fuller:
Reginald Fuller:
The disciples thought that they had witnessed Jesus’ appearances, which, however they are explained, “is a fact upon which both believer and unbeliever may agree.[6]
https://chab123.wordpress.com/2014/04/26/bart-ehrman-the-resurrection-of-jesus-and-the-vision-hypothesis/
http://www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html[/QUOTE]
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Nevaeh420
Well-Known Member
I am sure there is some credible information in the Bible. But, to generalize, the Bible is not a credible piece of literature: but I am sure there are some facts contained in the Bible. Even a good science fiction book will contain some facts, but the premise of the sci-fi book is fiction. I believe the same is true with the Bible, there are SOME facts in the Bible (in order to SEEM credible), but the main premise of the Bible is fiction. Do you understand this? and does this make sense?
First of all, I am not claiming "divinity", because I am not claiming to be God. I believe we are all gods, and everyone is divine as anyone else.
I have not fulfilled many Bible prophecies, but I have fulfilled many Bible STORIES from the New Testament, in My subjective opinion.
But the fact is that the Bible is the most published book EVER, probably the most read book EVER, and billions of people believe the Bible is "the Word of God": regardless whether I believe the Bible has a lot of fallacious myths in it, or not.
And all of the parallels I have with the New Testament are (mostly) falsifiable- they can be proven by My records. And the Bible is considered, by the billions of Christians, to be "the Word of God," and I can literally, empirically prove that I have these said parallels with these said Bible stories. Its My opinion that I have fulfilled many Bible stories in My Life. I cannot prove every parallel I have with these Bible stories, but I have vivid, unequivocal memories of these events, because they are unprovable facts. For example, one of the parallels I have with the Bible has to do with riding a horse: I cannot empirically prove that those events happened that day in the year 2008 (I believe), but I know that it happened as a fact. Some things, you just need a little faith that I am telling the Truth.
So, because the Bible is considered as "the Word of God" to the billions of alleged Christians, I would assert that the myraid parallels I have with the New Testament is evidence that I have myraid parallels with the alleged "Word of God." And I personally believe, in My subjective opinion, that I am the fulfillment to the New Testament.
So, regardless what I believe about the credibility of the Bible, literally billions of alleged Christians believe the Bible is the credible "Word of God", and that has to say something about the Bible.
Its not what I believe, its the fact that billions of people are allegedly Christians. I am in the minority with My novel Spirituality, right now.
The majority of Christians would say I am erroneous, and their Bible is the infallible Word of God, so the majority of Christians don't care what I believe. And belief is such a powerful thing.
Is this a logical argument? Does this make sense?
Yes, all prophecies are "mere guesses", unless you KNOW the future: but some prophecies are more plausible compared to others. I don't believe anyone knows the future for certain, because World War 3 could happen any time, and the countries could nuke humanity to extinction. But this does not seem to be as plausible as the human race will probably continue throughout the AGEs, but do we KNOW anything about the future for certain? My guess is no. Sure, I believe all of My prophecies are inevitable with enough time, but its still just My best educated guess, and its contingent upon many factors.
But, for all I know, the New Testament could have been written by aliens, or time travels, that KNEW exactly what was going to unfold in the future: because I cannot explain WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories. For example, I remember you, Tyler, saying that if you are in space, traveling towards (or away from) the earth, you will be able to see the future or the past? is this correct? So I really have no notion WHY I inadvertantly fulfilled so many New Testament stories?
Maybe the fact that I have so many parallels with the New Testament is "meaningless coincidence" to you, or any non-believer, but there is a lot of meaning to Me. The facts about Myself might seem unimportant to some people, but they are very important to Me. This is called being subjective. Even though I have many objective facts about Myself that I can empirically prove, its a subjective notion if people want to see the unequivocal parallels between Me and the Christ.
Did I fulfill all of your (expectations and) dreams?
~PEACE~
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Mad Lab
Active Member
We can argue fact vs fiction all day. We wont go anywhere will we?
What are your spiritual beliefs? Agnostic or Atheist?
Once a person accepts that Jesus was telling the truth, one can truly retain what the bible is trying to deliver. If that hasnt happened, of course your going to see it as a fable that you can dissect scientifically. As I said before, this isnt a science book, it is a spiritual guide. So lets stop arguing for the fact vs fiction point because a scientific fact isnt considered 100% truth so let's both agree science cant explain a supernatural force if it exists(it may in the future, you never know). Science explains natural phenomenon.
Lets look at the book as fiction as you say. Stories that were created to dissect the human condition and provide the best remedy for it. Things noone can prove to you until you have lived life, made mistakes.
Question for you:
When you do bad things and hurt people and get away with it without ANYONE truly finding out. Do you believe that "life" or "karma" will punish you, at least somewhere down the line?
Personally, when I lived a life im not proud of, I would experience punishment from an unknown source. I doubt when I lived that life I just got unlucky so many times after doing bad things and then when i stopped, i got real lucky and good things happened to me?
I and or anyone cant prove that when you do bad things, bad things happen to you... but wisdom is the proof to individuals that experience these things.
So do you believe nothing bad happens to you when you do bad things?
What are your spiritual beliefs? Agnostic or Atheist?
Once a person accepts that Jesus was telling the truth, one can truly retain what the bible is trying to deliver. If that hasnt happened, of course your going to see it as a fable that you can dissect scientifically. As I said before, this isnt a science book, it is a spiritual guide. So lets stop arguing for the fact vs fiction point because a scientific fact isnt considered 100% truth so let's both agree science cant explain a supernatural force if it exists(it may in the future, you never know). Science explains natural phenomenon.
Lets look at the book as fiction as you say. Stories that were created to dissect the human condition and provide the best remedy for it. Things noone can prove to you until you have lived life, made mistakes.
Question for you:
When you do bad things and hurt people and get away with it without ANYONE truly finding out. Do you believe that "life" or "karma" will punish you, at least somewhere down the line?
Personally, when I lived a life im not proud of, I would experience punishment from an unknown source. I doubt when I lived that life I just got unlucky so many times after doing bad things and then when i stopped, i got real lucky and good things happened to me?
I and or anyone cant prove that when you do bad things, bad things happen to you... but wisdom is the proof to individuals that experience these things.
So do you believe nothing bad happens to you when you do bad things?
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
100% of the brain. But, which percentage do we use consciously? (the average is split 10%, 50%, and 40%) Deeper down are functions we are not in control of. Some who have spent their lives contemplating have increased the 'readily available' percentage, and can likely see and do things that others cannot.
Anywho, the upper echelon of old would not seem to agree with today's all-or-nothing attitude toward reality.
"As the development of new technology allowed physicists to peer into unknown territory, they found data that they could model with mathematics, but not talk about, nor understand, with their traditional views of reality. Millennia before, Eastern mystics had run into similar problems with their exploration of an intuitive comprehension of reality. When physicists and Eastern mystics attempt to put their understanding into words they sound amazingly similar.
"The general notions about human understanding...which are illustrated by discoveries in atomic physics are not in the nature of things wholly unfamiliar, wholly unheard of, or new. Even in our own culture they have a history, and in Buddhist and Hindu thought a more considerable and central place. What we shall find is an exemplification, and encouragement, and a refinement of old wisdom." Robert Oppenheimer, 1954.
"For a parallel to the lesson of atomic theory...[we must turn] to those kinds of epistemological problems with which already thinkers like the Buddha and Lao Tzu have been confronted, when trying to harmonize our position as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence." Niels Bohr, 1958
"The great scientific contribution in theoretical physics that has come from Japan since the last war may be an indication of a certain relationship between philosophical ideas in the tradition of the Far East and the philosophical substance of quantum theory." Werner Heisenberg, 1958"
Anywho, the upper echelon of old would not seem to agree with today's all-or-nothing attitude toward reality.
"As the development of new technology allowed physicists to peer into unknown territory, they found data that they could model with mathematics, but not talk about, nor understand, with their traditional views of reality. Millennia before, Eastern mystics had run into similar problems with their exploration of an intuitive comprehension of reality. When physicists and Eastern mystics attempt to put their understanding into words they sound amazingly similar.
"The general notions about human understanding...which are illustrated by discoveries in atomic physics are not in the nature of things wholly unfamiliar, wholly unheard of, or new. Even in our own culture they have a history, and in Buddhist and Hindu thought a more considerable and central place. What we shall find is an exemplification, and encouragement, and a refinement of old wisdom." Robert Oppenheimer, 1954.
"For a parallel to the lesson of atomic theory...[we must turn] to those kinds of epistemological problems with which already thinkers like the Buddha and Lao Tzu have been confronted, when trying to harmonize our position as spectators and actors in the great drama of existence." Niels Bohr, 1958
"The great scientific contribution in theoretical physics that has come from Japan since the last war may be an indication of a certain relationship between philosophical ideas in the tradition of the Far East and the philosophical substance of quantum theory." Werner Heisenberg, 1958"
Mad Lab
Active Member
Eye, very interesting. I can't pose an opinion on something I havent researched, but it was very odd to me that nueroscience had discovered you use 100% percent of the brain.
Before I become a Christian, what really pushed me into "the light" was studying the history of mysticism and gnosticism, very interesting subject.
Most gnostic sects these days trace roots back to the children of Seth and it's relationship with the Judea deity was very evident. Throughout history these keepers of spiritual knowledge and scientific knowledge were very important to the human race fr without them we wouldn't be where we are today.
There was a controversial time after Jesus' death, where the Orthadox Christianity that the Apostles where spreading and traditional gnosticism had to split ways. While sects of these gnostics believed in the messiah (as we know, the Magi, or wise men, were the forefront of believers in Jesus). Gospels where then found containing teachings of Jesus and gnosticism but contradict the teachings in the Gospels contained now in the Bible. The new teachings of Jesus Christ seemed to have changed the view on the need of mysticism. Almost realizing that the human race at this time had reached a point that needed a change. We had made it to the point where the spiritual guidance from the Judea-Christian God had become final, and Jesus Christ put the final stamp. I view the New Testament as God saying, "Any prophets claims of new information or guidance pertaining to me is false and do not believe this false prophecy. Everything you need to live the way I want will be placed in a book by the vessel I always use to get things to you: man."
Following the Gnostics and Mystics to Magi and Celtics, it appears that after the time of Jesus is when these belief systems became more associated with occult practices and nothing to do with the true mystics, which had a spiritual connection with the Judea deity.
When you get to present day Freemasonry, this is where is it gets interesting. When entering Freemasonry you are required a few things. One of which is you must believe in a higher power. You can choose Christianity, as most do in America, or your religion of choose. The interesting part is during your induction ceremony, you place your hand on the Bible and swear to it that you will place Freemasonry above all. The first omission towards the advice of Jesus. You also receive a manual that includes the rules of your Freemason Lodge. Almost every manual has a few rules it in, including things such as:
187. If family or friends, coworkers or strangers, inquiry about your freemasonry activities or anything related to the secrets and rituals of freemasonry, you are instructed and permitted to lie. In doing so you are relinquished of sin.
or
193. If a fellow brother of freemasonry is in a situation where power lies in your hands to aid or assist, if it is in your power to assist, you must; unless the situation involves murder, of which you may decide against or for your brother. In doing so you are relieved of sin.
Which contradicts everything Christ said. Don't lie. Don't lie for someone who murdered someone. Don't choose a lesser canidate for a job because of a fraternity. If your a District Attorney dont let someone off because they are your brother, etc. If we all lived by this we would live in a world even worse than it is now.
When you get further in you realize that everything involved with freemasonry rituals are very Biblical. The stories are based around King Solomon and Hiram Abiff. They even mock Jesus and the Resurrection and Baptism etc.
Honestly I became a Christian after reading into Freemasonry. It was evident that the most elitist sect in the world today most likely have vested their beliefs into something very credible. With all the money and resources and access to history the average public doesnt, these people arnt going to all believe in something completely ludacris.
So why is the most elitist group in the world follow a religion (it most def is a religon) that opposes Christianity. Because thats what it does. It acknowledges Jesus and spits in his face, purposely.
Why would you oppose something that isnt real?
Thats when I decided to look more into this Jesus Christ... and what i found was more acceptable. The God the mystics loved so much was not a god of secrets. God would not leave the spirituality for special elite few.. sounds very illogical to me.
Before I become a Christian, what really pushed me into "the light" was studying the history of mysticism and gnosticism, very interesting subject.
Most gnostic sects these days trace roots back to the children of Seth and it's relationship with the Judea deity was very evident. Throughout history these keepers of spiritual knowledge and scientific knowledge were very important to the human race fr without them we wouldn't be where we are today.
There was a controversial time after Jesus' death, where the Orthadox Christianity that the Apostles where spreading and traditional gnosticism had to split ways. While sects of these gnostics believed in the messiah (as we know, the Magi, or wise men, were the forefront of believers in Jesus). Gospels where then found containing teachings of Jesus and gnosticism but contradict the teachings in the Gospels contained now in the Bible. The new teachings of Jesus Christ seemed to have changed the view on the need of mysticism. Almost realizing that the human race at this time had reached a point that needed a change. We had made it to the point where the spiritual guidance from the Judea-Christian God had become final, and Jesus Christ put the final stamp. I view the New Testament as God saying, "Any prophets claims of new information or guidance pertaining to me is false and do not believe this false prophecy. Everything you need to live the way I want will be placed in a book by the vessel I always use to get things to you: man."
Following the Gnostics and Mystics to Magi and Celtics, it appears that after the time of Jesus is when these belief systems became more associated with occult practices and nothing to do with the true mystics, which had a spiritual connection with the Judea deity.
When you get to present day Freemasonry, this is where is it gets interesting. When entering Freemasonry you are required a few things. One of which is you must believe in a higher power. You can choose Christianity, as most do in America, or your religion of choose. The interesting part is during your induction ceremony, you place your hand on the Bible and swear to it that you will place Freemasonry above all. The first omission towards the advice of Jesus. You also receive a manual that includes the rules of your Freemason Lodge. Almost every manual has a few rules it in, including things such as:
187. If family or friends, coworkers or strangers, inquiry about your freemasonry activities or anything related to the secrets and rituals of freemasonry, you are instructed and permitted to lie. In doing so you are relinquished of sin.
or
193. If a fellow brother of freemasonry is in a situation where power lies in your hands to aid or assist, if it is in your power to assist, you must; unless the situation involves murder, of which you may decide against or for your brother. In doing so you are relieved of sin.
Which contradicts everything Christ said. Don't lie. Don't lie for someone who murdered someone. Don't choose a lesser canidate for a job because of a fraternity. If your a District Attorney dont let someone off because they are your brother, etc. If we all lived by this we would live in a world even worse than it is now.
When you get further in you realize that everything involved with freemasonry rituals are very Biblical. The stories are based around King Solomon and Hiram Abiff. They even mock Jesus and the Resurrection and Baptism etc.
Honestly I became a Christian after reading into Freemasonry. It was evident that the most elitist sect in the world today most likely have vested their beliefs into something very credible. With all the money and resources and access to history the average public doesnt, these people arnt going to all believe in something completely ludacris.
So why is the most elitist group in the world follow a religion (it most def is a religon) that opposes Christianity. Because thats what it does. It acknowledges Jesus and spits in his face, purposely.
Why would you oppose something that isnt real?
Thats when I decided to look more into this Jesus Christ... and what i found was more acceptable. The God the mystics loved so much was not a god of secrets. God would not leave the spirituality for special elite few.. sounds very illogical to me.
Mad Lab
Active Member
I tried it.
I had money. women. friends. family. and i did my best everyday to be a good person, kind and generous, and as content as you could be without a god.
Something was missing.
Only the blessed or lucky ones who acquire all of these things in life will truly find out that money, power or experience isnt what will the human experience is about. Well not the human experience that makes you happy.
We are programed to believe and serve a higher power, because if we didn't, we'd have to serve ourselves or a human king (or material things, which is preferred by most in America). Both are not worth serving. A King cannot be without sin and respectable as such, and if you think you can be your own god well lets look at you: Are you a god worth serving? Ha, thats a joke. I surely am far from r someone I would ever want to worship.
"Dont worship anything." You probably would say. Well, it's not that easy. (You likely worship experiences or materials if you live by this). Evolutionary process programed us that way (I believe god set evolution in place with physical laws. Poof! I made a human being isnt his style. He would have used a process.) We need to be humbled and serve something better than us. If not, we have no reason to be a good person because there's no EFFECT for the CAUSE of misdeeds on this earth. It comes down to survival, and everyone becomes expendable when that's the case. We need a reason to love one and other because love becomes illogical in an atheist worldview as much as they try to argue against that.
If I forced you to worship one man in history... I wonder who you'd pick, after doing all your research.
The day I figured it all out. Jesus
.That's the day my life truly became fulfilled.
eye exaggerate
Well-Known Member
Hi, Mad Lab. I'm not too sure about the motives behind those groups, I suppose I'd like to believe they are doing positive things. I'm sure there are bad things happening along side the good, just like real life. Who knows, though. Those groups have such a cloud of noise around them that it can make a person loopy when trying to peek in. I'm sure that most of it is metaphor for a 'journey' which obviously doesn't take place in a physical locale. If it is based on Gnosis then I don't think it would be a religion. Likely more of an adjunct to a person's religion.
Sure Shot
Well-Known Member
They are all saying the same thing in different ways. I present to you our Universe.
Attachments
Mad Lab
Active Member
The evidence is in living buddy. Live a little, learn a little, the day you realize you really dont all that you think you know, well that's the first step of your journey.
Enjoy, and remember, keep asking yourself ,"If another man takes everything away from me, who am i, and why.
Nevaeh420
Well-Known Member
Who are "they"? and what are "they" saying that is the same?They are all saying the same thing in different ways. I present to you our Universe.
~PEACE~
Nevaeh420
Well-Known Member
I heard that a famous Atheist author, actually became a Theist, after studing the complexity of DNA, and all of the information contained in DNA.
I forget his name, or I would link you to an article.
~PEACE~