SpectrumKing hates COBs

[deadgro]

What's up with that? Who wants to disspell their statements?

From sk's site:

"Another point of confusion for customers is the constant advertisement of a new unheard of C.O.B. (Chip On Board ) LEDs and how they will dominate the market. As a Commercial lighting manufacturer we are here to tell you that is 100% FALSE!!

C.O.B. LEDs have been around for over 10 years. There are only three reasons to choose a C.O.B. LED:

1. To reduce cost of materials to make the LED
2. To save companies money by eliminating the need for circuit boards
3. To group more LED diodes into one small area.

Standard self contained diodes are the leading LEDs in the Industry and have performances that are double that of C.O.B. LEDs. Every LED that claims to be 10, 20, 50 or even 100 watt is a C.O.B.

DO NOT BE FOOLED BY COMPANIES THAT CLAIM TO OFFER HIGH WATTAGE CHIPS!!!

Additional downsides to C.O.B. is the relatively lower efficiency and overall light output. By adding and cramming more diodes into a tight array that share the same substrate; heat becomes an issue and C.O.B. diodes run hotter and thus output less lumens, have a lower efficiency, and shorter life. 100 Watts of C.O.B. does not equal to or perform the same as a cluster of individual diodes mounted on a circuit board. Not opinion, fact."

 

[PSUAGRO.]

Well, they are entitled to their opinion......lol...........DIY quality top-bin cobs are a serious threat to all pre-built sellers == FACT

 

[JavaCo]

They seem to be acting just like some HPS light makers. Scared of the new tech. They are simply full of shit. Maybe 10 years ago Cobs sucked but they need to get with the times. Cobs are really going to take off when they get to 50% efficiency. I think that will happen in the next 5 to 7 years. Not sure where they get their Fact from but they sure as hell did not look @ cree and bridgelux COB's.

 

[churchhaze]

We had a debate with the spectrum king guy, but the thread was taken down for breaking the "no free advertising" rules. He showed pictures of vero chips he tested, saying they were no good.. so it's hard to tell if this guy is clueless, or just flat out lying.

While arguing with me, he claimed his 4 inch metal pcb would out perform my DIY by 100,000x. Simply outperforming any of our COB diy's would be a good goal.. but 100,000 times as good as the best currently available is the most insane claim I've ever heard from an LED salesman... He REALLY hates cobs.

 

[deadgro]

We had a debate with the spectrum king guy, but the thread was taken down for breaking the "no free advertising" rules. He showed pictures of vero chips he tested, saying they were no good.. so it's hard to tell if this guy is clueless, or just flat out lying.

While arguing with me, he claimed his 4 inch metal pcb would out perform my DIY by 100,000x. Simply outperforming any of our COB diy's would be a good goal.. but 100,000 times as good as the best currently available is the most insane claim I've ever heard from an LED salesman... He REALLY hates cobs.

Sad I wasn't here for that. Its clear cobs have a bright future for growing. I hadn't seen anyone try to convince folks that cobs are a bad tech before their site.

 

[Greengenes707]

I have already gone into it with the owner of the company in another thread(like church said)...and all our post got deleted because he was advertising I guess. He is a joke and uses mid bin xbd 4K's. And I compared them head to head with the 4K cxa AD in his face...and all he could say is the data sheet was wrong...yet it's from the same company making hs diodes...I could go on and on about how SK knows pretyt much nothing, and are just ignorant sales guys.

He hates cobs because that is exactly what he is trying to make with the xdb's...a giant multi-chip...which is very similar to cobs...which are better than both his and regular multi-chips. So when he bashes cobs he generalizes all cobs/multi-chips into one category...which we all here know is incorrect and just wrong.

Church....the guys is fucking clueless...or just simply won't admit he isn't using the best...or even the top 10. Which as an owner...makes sense, why admit your product isn't up to PAR...pun intended. He will stand by his product till it sinks...but still the facts were presented and he is sitting low on the totem pole of top lights IMO.

JAVA...cobs can hit 50% efficiency right now if you want to make it happen...and price isn't ridiculous either. Still save about $700-1000 over a illumitex and get double the efficiency. I know no one is referencing/talking about illumitex...just using them as an example of cost in the industry. But I get what your saying...when price gets to what 35%-40% lights are now...then we are talking over the world. COB CITY BITCH!!

 

[deadgro]

Side question- why are the SK lights so big? Does he have proprietary tech in there? I'd guess not but I don't understand why they need such a large housing.

 

[churchhaze]

His lights would be decent if they were under-driven, and there were like 4 of those 4" metal pcbs, spread out over a larger area. Another issue with his lamps is they're 91+ CRI, which is a huge loss in efficiency.

The leds the product uses are decent quality, but he'd need 4 times as many leds and 4 times the labor to make it work. I guess then he wouldn't need the giant CPU cooler then either, but 4 smaller coolers.

Side question- why are the SK lights so big? Does he have proprietary tech in there? I'd guess not but I don't understand why they need such a large housing.

 

[Greengenes707]

Side question- why are the SK lights so big? Does he have proprietary tech in there? I'd guess not but I don't understand why they need such a large housing.

He buys them from china...we found those lights on alibaba years ago...then retrofits with his circuit boards. That's why his design is what it is...it's what someone else made and he uses. And told us that in the other thread.

His lights would be decent if they were under-driven, and there were like 4 of those 4" metal pcbs, spread out over a larger area. Another issue with his lamps is they're 91+ CRI, which is a huge loss in efficiency.

The leds the product uses are decent quality, but he'd need 4 times as many leds and 4 times the labor to make it work. I guess then he wouldn't need the giant CPU cooler then either, but 4 smaller coolers.

I don't think his lights are high CRI.
Here is his part number from the invoice he showed us in that thread...
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/XBDAWT-00-0000-00000HDE5/XBDAWT-00-0000-00000HDE5-ND/3747076
He was getting them for 66¢ a piece and buying $100K worth.
Standard xbd's...cree bulbs use the them too. He has a higher bin than the household bulbs...but is never going to be the top dog with those chips imo. Plus with cree backing them as their horti-lighting partner, I expect the absolute top components and design(light spread and thermal) through out the light. Both lacking.

They have a grow going on in their warehouse where they make lights...as cool as that is....in the real regulated corporate business world...that is a no no, and blows my mind cree has a link to their homepage which has a video of the whole thing.


I have a buddy how has one of the lights...I have been trying to get it from him since that thread...I haven't forgot about it...just working out how/when to pick it up.

 

[deadgro]

He buys them from china...we found those lights on alibaba years ago...then retrofits with his circuit boards. That's why his design is what it is...it's what someone else made and he uses. And told us that in the other thread.

I don't think his lights are high CRI.
Here is his part number from the invoice he showed us in that thread...
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/XBDAWT-00-0000-00000HDE5/XBDAWT-00-0000-00000HDE5-ND/3747076
He was getting them for 66¢ a piece and buying $100K worth.
Standard xbd's...cree bulbs use the them too. He has a higher bin than the household bulbs...but is never going to be the top dog with those chips imo. Plus with cree backing them as their horti-lighting partner, I expect the absolute top components and design(light spread and thermal) through out the light. Both lacking.

They have a grow going on in their warehouse where they make lights...as cool as that is....in the real regulated corporate business world...that is a no no, and blows my mind cree has a link to their homepage which has a video of the whole thing.


I have a buddy how has one of the lights...I have been trying to get it from him since that thread...I haven't forgot about it...just working out how/when to pick it up.

Sounds like a con man. I hope he didn't get his money from friends and family.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Experience tells all and my experience tells me COBs are the future of indoor horticulture!

 

[rob333]

What's up with that? Who wants to disspell their statements?

From sk's site:

"Another point of confusion for customers is the constant advertisement of a new unheard of C.O.B. (Chip On Board ) LEDs and how they will dominate the market. As a Commercial lighting manufacturer we are here to tell you that is 100% FALSE!!

C.O.B. LEDs have been around for over 10 years. There are only three reasons to choose a C.O.B. LED:

1. To reduce cost of materials to make the LED
2. To save companies money by eliminating the need for circuit boards
3. To group more LED diodes into one small area.

Standard self contained diodes are the leading LEDs in the Industry and have performances that are double that of C.O.B. LEDs. Every LED that claims to be 10, 20, 50 or even 100 watt is a C.O.B.

DO NOT BE FOOLED BY COMPANIES THAT CLAIM TO OFFER HIGH WATTAGE CHIPS!!!

Additional downsides to C.O.B. is the relatively lower efficiency and overall light output. By adding and cramming more diodes into a tight array that share the same substrate; heat becomes an issue and C.O.B. diodes run hotter and thus output less lumens, have a lower efficiency, and shorter life. 100 Watts of C.O.B. does not equal to or perform the same as a cluster of individual diodes mounted on a circuit board. Not opinion, fact."

just a little input the shop i work at cree and a few other companny's ask us to get there lights in were when we approached cob on some diy cobbs or even a little input or getting someone do make some lights up there they dident really want to help thinking they dont want to go down the hydro way with there lights

 

[tightpockt]

Isnt this A repost? Obviously this dude's mad 'cause cobs are killing his garbage 3w UFOs

 

[deadgro]

Isnt this A repost? Obviously this dude's mad 'cause cobs are killing his garbage 3w UFOs

Sorry if its a repost. I personally don't own either, I have a51 and advanced led panels. A guy posted his grow yesterday with the SK light and having not heard of them, I researched and came across the cob hate and thought I'd get opinions since I've been reading a lot about cobs on here.

 

[Greengenes707]

I do want to say...I don't think it's a bad light, and probably it's place in greenhouses. Just not the best, or even on my list of maybe's. Plus for how the guy acted and bashed cobs or any evidence presented to him, I have no reason to be nice anymore about short comings. There is better options out there in both price and performance.

Regardless of my thoughts and conclusions...I want to see some more grows with them. @deadgro , do you have a link to that grow?

 

[deadgro]

I do want to say...I don't think it's a bad light, and probably it's place in greenhouses. Just not the best, or even on my list of maybe's. Plus for how the guy acted and bashed cobs or any evidence presented to him, I have no reason to be nice anymore about short comings. There is better options out there in both price and performance.

Regardless of my thoughts and conclusions...I want to see some more grows with them. @deadgro , do you have a link to that grow?

Its not far along- https://www.rollitup.org/t/spectrum-king-400w-led-grow.860075/

 

[SupraSPL]

I used to think the same thing, how could all the LEDs packed into a small COB handle the heat? I got a wake up call when I saw Mr Flux CXA Analysis thread and started looking through the datasheets. The thermal resistance is amazingly low, pricing low and efficiency higher than ever.

Even the generic COBs handle the heat. I was just testing for temp droop on this 100W warm white generic COB and the thermal results were excellent:

@ 1.47A (47.5W), mounted on Rosewill heatsink, fan running at 5V, .53% temp droop (approx 30.9% efficient, $0.68/PAR W)
@ 3.05A (110W), mounted on Rosewill heatsink, fan running at 7.5V, 3.24% temp droop (approx 23% efficient, $0.40/PAR W)

 

[Positivity]

Usually I'd be nice

But after the bull that came out in the original thread... The truth instead.

Massive stacked heatsink and a array of xbds. Waste of money. It'd be a good deal if it was free.

 

[az2000]

He hates cobs because that is exactly what he is trying to make with the xdb's...a giant multi-chip...which is very similar to cobs..

That's the thing I never understood. Why would he choose to make his own COB with tightly-packed individual LEDs if there's not an advantage to it? He didn't seem ignorant, nor a con-artist like those who sell epi-whatever fixtures for Cree prices. He knows his datasheets and uses Cree.

Something about what he's doing seems odd to me in that way. If he's just trying to make a quick buck from the ignorant masses (in the same way Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, GrowBlu, Blackdog do), I would have expected him to jump on the COB bandwagon. Easier assembly, etc. Or, use epi-whatever diodes if he (for whatever) reason didn't like COBs. (I.e., why more expensive diodes?).

Just seems like a weird position to be in, making his own COB-like array of diodes while bashing COBs, while playing up efficiency and setting himself apart from the predatory brands mentioned above.

The other thing that seemed odd was how he supposedly has been into 420 and LEDs for years, but was completely ignorant of this forum and the people he disputes via his anti-COB rhetoric on his "LED 101" page.

Nothing about him makes sense to me. That makes me wonder if he's not onto something. I can't think of another explanation for the above. He's either brilliant or a compulsive liar. I don't see either way around it. If he's a compulsive liar (constructing this kind of "off" way of viewing efficiency) it seems like he could have tailored a lie for better personal results to himself. Such as, using COBs and lying about how wonderful they are (getting the benefit of cheaper assembly costs).

I agree with you guys that something seemed off about him. But, I'm not prepared to say he's a scammer. If he were, why would he go to the trouble of making his own COB via densely-packed individual LEDs? It doesn't add up?

Also, it was mentioned his posts were deleted due to spam. That was my fault. I pointed him to the thread where his light was being discussed. I should have understood RIU's requirements and helped keep him in line.

However, having said that, it was pretty obvious that he was reported just because his position irritated the "in group" here. There does seem to be a tendency to, "if we can't win, let's turn up the heat and then report that heat so the discussion is closed." We just saw it with @REALSTYLES .

I'm not saying the SK guy (or realstyles) was correct. Disagreeable viewpoints tend to be closed down that way. (I.e., that SK conclusion made me wonder if there wasn't truth in @PetFlora 's claim of being threatened with grassing out. There definitely were people who were not merely in disagreement, but visibly angry.).

Just my 2-cents as someone who was responsible for that prior SK thread.

 

[Positivity]

That's the thing I never understood. Why would he choose to make his own COB with tightly-packed individual LEDs if there's not an advantage to it? He didn't seem ignorant, nor a con-artist like those who sell epi-whatever fixtures for Cree prices. He knows his datasheets and uses Cree.

Something about what he's doing seems odd to me in that way. If he's just trying to make a quick buck from the ignorant masses (in the same way Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, GrowBlu, Blackdog do), I would have expected him to jump on the COB bandwagon. Easier assembly, etc. Or, use epi-whatever diodes if he (for whatever reason didn't like COBs).

Just seems like a weird position to be in, making his own COB-like array of diodes while bashing COBs, while playing up efficiency and setting himself apart from the predatory brands mentioned above.

The other thing that seemed odd was how he supposedly has been into 420 and LEDs for years, but was completely ignorant of this forum and the people he disputes via his anti-COB rhetoric on his "LED 101" page.

Nothing about him makes sense to me. That makes me wonder if he's not onto something. I can't think of another explanation for the above. He's either brilliant or a compuslive liar. I don't see either way around it. If he's a compulsive liar (constructing this kind of "off" way of viewing efficiency) it seems like he could have tailored a lie for better personal results to himself. Such as, using COBs and lying about how wonderful they are (getting the benefit of cheaper assembly costs).

I agree with you guys that something seemed off about him. But, I'm not prepared to say he's a scammer. If he were, why would he go to the trouble of making his own COB via densely-packed individual LEDs? It doesn't add up?

Also, it was mentioned his posts were deleted due to spam. That was my fault. I pointed him to the thread where his light was being discussed. I should have understood RIU's requirements and helped keep him in line.

However, having said that, it was pretty obvious that he was reported just because his position irritated the "in group" here. There does seem to be a tendency to, "if we can't win, let's turn up the heat and then report that heat so the discussion is closed." We just saw it with @REALSTYLES .

I'm not saying the SK guy (or realstyles) was correct. Disagreeable viewpoints tend to be closed down that way. (I.e., that SK conclusion made me wonder if there wasn't truth in @PetFlora 's claim of being threatened with grassing out. There definitely were people who were not merely in disagreement, but visibly angry.).

Just my 2-cents as someone who was responsible for that prior SK thread.

Thats more credit than i think deserved..

Theres a few generations of white chips that are way more efficient than xbds. Also...saying the cree datasheets are wrong for cobs but right for xbds requires proof in my opinion. How you can say that without proving it is beyond me..

Sure a xpl version of his setup might be nice...but the newer cobs hit the same efficiency....why the hell would you use more expensive more labor intensive leds.

And again...that heatsink was on alibaba for years. There wasn't one time i thought it'd be a good design. Interesting, but way better options out in my opinion.

My 2c...

Edit..
After rereading azs post...i do agree that things get overly heated at times. Whether its opposing beliefs or peeps blatantly advertising and scheming misinformation. Beliefs in grow philosophy i think are debates worthwhile keeping around. But advertising and misleading peoples only worth for being kept around are for their worth in seeing businesses ethics.