SpectrumKing hates COBs

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Amen @Positivity

AZ...I presented facts and proof to him multiple times in that thread...he deflected it every time. Never once did he show anything to show his being better than the rest. While I and others have example after example. When asked for his 3rd party tests he talked so highly of us not having...well he never showed anything...literally NOTHING.
 
Last edited:

az2000

Well-Known Member
why the hell would you use more expensive more labor intensive leds.
That's my point. I can't figure out what would lead him to a labor-expensive "COB-like" design. And, then, use Cree instead of cheaper epi-whatever diodes.

The only explanations I can think of are:

1. He's sincere but ignorant. He merely chose these things believing they were best (without really knowing).

If I designed a light, that would explain me. But, he seemed to know what he was talking about. I agree he didn't have the answers to some challenges. But, he didn't seem to be ignorant and merely picked a few things based upon assumptions.

2. He's predatory. The whole emphasis on efficiency is a ruse to give the impression he's not one of the predatory brands I listed earlier -- while deliberately misleading everyone about how efficient his design is.

I admit I detected an air of willful deceit. But, if he's really driven in that manner, why wouldn't he simply use COBs for the lower cost, or do what the other deceptive/expensive brands do: use epi-whatever diodes and simply not talk about it. :) Play up how everyone's doing stuff wrong (as he does play up right now), and get the advantage of selling cheap diodes.

He's going the expensive path while apparently claiming undeserved efficiency(?). It doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what he gets out of it compared to taking the more typical obfuscating path of other LED brands.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
He probably thought intensity was the same thing as total output power and wrongfully assumed that one intense hot spot made his light more powerful., when it was only "brighter" in one spot, then realize afterwards that it was at the cost of a considerably smaller footprint.

A lot of people are genuinely slow like that and will never pick up that "area under the curve" thing.
 

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Right, I think RIU closes threads that get personal, not to censor certain grow philosophies.

I am with you on that POS, if someone is making an argument that XBDs are somehow special and the other Crees are inferior and their spec sheets are wrong, they have no leg to stand on. Honestly I never spent more than 5 minutes evaluating XBD spec sheets because the XTE was better but lets see its potential:

XBDAWT-00-0000-00000HDE5, the lowest bin for 4000K 80 CRi, Q5, at $0.66 ea

typical numbers
XBD vs Vero10.png
 

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Right, I think RIU closes threads that get personal, not to censor certain grow philosophies.

I am with you on that POS, if someone is making an argument that XBDs are somehow special and the other Crees are inferior and their spec sheets are wrong, they have no leg to stand on. Honestly I never spent more than 5 minutes evaluating XBD spec sheets because the XTE was better but lets see its potential:

XBDAWT-00-0000-00000HDE5, the lowest bin for 4000K 80 CRi, Q5, at $0.66 ea

typical numbers
View attachment 3350005
Thank you sir!
I broke it down for him in words...but with a 3070 4K AD as the counterpart...since he was bagging us for the 3070 and v29's. Talk about a world of difference and nothing to stand on.

Don't quote me 100%, but he seemed like he was running them at ~1w each, ~350ma. So helping his efficiency, but still not close to record breaking.
Makes me wonder what the price on each 3070 if one was to get 100K worth.
 

churchhaze

Well-Known Member
That doesn't sound like 100,000x better to me at all. Something here isn't adding up!! lol :roll:

Right, I think RIU closes threads that get personal, not to censor certain grow philosophies.

I am with you on that POS, if someone is making an argument that XBDs are somehow special and the other Crees are inferior and their spec sheets are wrong, they have no leg to stand on. Honestly I never spent more than 5 minutes evaluating XBD spec sheets because the XTE was better but lets see its potential:

XBDAWT-00-0000-00000HDE5, the lowest bin for 4000K 80 CRi, Q5, at $0.66 ea

typical numbers
View attachment 3350005
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
When asked for his 3rd party tests he talked so highly of us not having...well he never showed anything...literally NOTHING.
If I recall correctly, he said he sent a light out for testing and it would be 3 weeks. (2-3 days later his RIU account was deleted.).

Right, I think RIU closes threads that get personal, not to censor certain grow philosophies.
That's a different order of operations than I've witnessed. People get upset that they can't stop a different line of reasoning and proceed to make it personal, and then post "everyone report this post until we get a moderator's attention to lock the thread."

It seems to me philosophies are censored as a result, but you're right that it's not RIU's moderators doing it. :)

I think the above scenario is what played out. However, when it came ot the mod's attention what they noticed the most was SK's account name and apparently advertising he placed in his profile. I agree he crossed the line in that regard, and I feel responsible for that because I should have been familiar with the requirements to be low-key, not overtly promoting business interests.

if someone is making an argument that XBDs are somehow special and the other Crees are inferior and their spec sheets are wrong, they have no leg to stand on.
That gets back to my puzzlement how he could be that wrong. Either ignorance or intentional subterfuge. He didn't seem ignorant. If he's inclined to subterfuge (which I detected a tendency toward), why wouldn't he do the usual and more profitable subterfuge like Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, et. al? Seems odd to make efficiency and diode brand a big thing -- and then create a home-made COB while denigrating COBs, when he could have milked the COB market much easier. Or, gone with mystery diodes like the predatory brands I've mentioned.

It's weird. Churchhaze suggested he may not have understood the whole concentration vs. footprint tradeoff. But, he didn't seem that ignorant to me.
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
How do you even know the guy you were typing with was the guy you thought you were typing with? Couldn't someone create an account and pretend to be someone their not?

Sorry to emerge into the conversation/investigation but I've dived into this thread multiple times for no reason other than notifications pointing me in this direction. Did I post something here earlier???
 

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
That's the thing I never understood. Why would he choose to make his own COB with tightly-packed individual LEDs if there's not an advantage to it? He didn't seem ignorant, nor a con-artist like those who sell epi-whatever fixtures for Cree prices. He knows his datasheets and uses Cree.

Something about what he's doing seems odd to me in that way. If he's just trying to make a quick buck from the ignorant masses (in the same way Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, GrowBlu, Blackdog do), I would have expected him to jump on the COB bandwagon. Easier assembly, etc. Or, use epi-whatever diodes if he (for whatever) reason didn't like COBs. (I.e., why more expensive diodes?).

Just seems like a weird position to be in, making his own COB-like array of diodes while bashing COBs, while playing up efficiency and setting himself apart from the predatory brands mentioned above.

The other thing that seemed odd was how he supposedly has been into 420 and LEDs for years, but was completely ignorant of this forum and the people he disputes via his anti-COB rhetoric on his "LED 101" page.

Nothing about him makes sense to me. That makes me wonder if he's not onto something. I can't think of another explanation for the above. He's either brilliant or a compulsive liar. I don't see either way around it. If he's a compulsive liar (constructing this kind of "off" way of viewing efficiency) it seems like he could have tailored a lie for better personal results to himself. Such as, using COBs and lying about how wonderful they are (getting the benefit of cheaper assembly costs).

I agree with you guys that something seemed off about him. But, I'm not prepared to say he's a scammer. If he were, why would he go to the trouble of making his own COB via densely-packed individual LEDs? It doesn't add up?

Also, it was mentioned his posts were deleted due to spam. That was my fault. I pointed him to the thread where his light was being discussed. I should have understood RIU's requirements and helped keep him in line.

However, having said that, it was pretty obvious that he was reported just because his position irritated the "in group" here. There does seem to be a tendency to, "if we can't win, let's turn up the heat and then report that heat so the discussion is closed." We just saw it with @REALSTYLES .

I'm not saying the SK guy (or realstyles) was correct. Disagreeable viewpoints tend to be closed down that way. (I.e., that SK conclusion made me wonder if there wasn't truth in @PetFlora 's claim of being threatened with grassing out. There definitely were people who were not merely in disagreement, but visibly angry.).

Just my 2-cents as someone who was responsible for that prior SK thread.

Your defending that thread, full of misinformation that was causing more harm than good? Sure, good info was there, but it was arbitrary, because nobody cared to even look anymore......especially those who it was meant for: Newbies!
two totally different outcomes and situations imho....
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
How do you even know the guy you were typing with was the guy you thought you were typing with? Couldn't someone create an account and pretend to be someone their not?
When the topic began, it was merely an RIU member asking if anyone knew anything about Spectrum King LED lights. They pointed to a video or something. A few days later I noticed the "LED 101" page which made some assertions about COBs that were contrary to the prominence COBs hold here. We discussed it here a little, and then I contacted the guy through his site's "contact us" page. I thought it would be interesting to hear the reasoning behind his claim considering the vast difference of opinion he held vs the experts here.

That's how I know it was really him. I'm not sure we were better off for my inviting him here. :) I thought he made some good points about datasheets not being real-world, that nobody's had their COB independently tested. OTOH, there were a number of things he said which didn't add up in my mind. But, the reasons for that didn't add up either (ignorance or scam artist, neither made much sense.).

I guess eventually we'll learn more.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
Your defending that thread, full of misinformation that was causing more harm than good? Sure, good info was there, but it was arbitrary, because nobody cared to even look anymore......especially those who it was meant for: Newbies!
two totally different outcomes and situations imho....
I guess the same argument could be made for what petflora said happened to him.

If quality of information is a reason to lock threads, I'd rather see that be a published term of service rather than the "let's make it personal, then urge everyone to report the thread so it can be closed due to flaming and such."

I figure if someone believes it's misinfo, they can say so. Their reasoning will exist in perpetuity for everyone else to read. Reverse trolling (generating heat and then advocating mass-reports) doesn't look good to me. It adds credibility to what petflora said happened to him (threatened with grassing out if he didn't stop going against the grain.).

Not really defending the SK guy or his light. I don't agree with Realstyle's style either. But, I thought the calls to report the thread just to shut him down weren't respectable. ("He's making me flame... and flaming violates the ToS... report me so we can make him stop making me flame!").
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
I came across that thread that ended up being locked (the one involving Real).

A whole lotta trolls came out on him for what he was saying LOL (you know who you are). I've never seen such an assault before HAHAHA.
 

mc130p

Well-Known Member
I came across that thread that ended up being locked (the one involving Real).

A whole lotta trolls came out on him for what he was saying LOL (you know who you are). I've never seen such an assault before HAHAHA.
there was a troll but it was RS. he's been trolling that thread for months.
 

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member
there was a troll but it was RS. he's been trolling that thread for months.
O? Who are those, if any, that challenge a troll and attempt to slay it? What would we call such a person?

Don't worry MC130P, I'm just being creative with whats already been said ;).
 

Abiqua

Well-Known Member
I guess the same argument could be made for what petflora said happened to him.

If quality of information is a reason to lock threads, I'd rather see that be a published term of service rather than the "let's make it personal, then urge everyone to report the thread so it can be closed due to flaming and such."

I figure if someone believes it's misinfo, they can say so. Their reasoning will exist in perpetuity for everyone else to read. Reverse trolling (generating heat and then advocating mass-reports) doesn't look good to me. It adds credibility to what petflora said happened to him (threatened with grassing out if he didn't stop going against the grain.).

Not really defending the SK guy or his light. I don't agree with Realstyle's style either. But, I thought the calls to report the thread just to shut him down weren't respectable. ("He's making me flame... and flaming violates the ToS... report me so we can make him stop making me flame!").
Not even close.....Pet just spammed everywhere. It WASN"T about misinfo, more like disinfo on purpose, repeatedly and to the detriment of people not knowing much about LED's and becoming even more confused. That bone had been waiting to be picked from the get go...been following the thread the WHOLE way through, if the community is telling me to fuck off [like now]....I will listen and digress and give it up.....

Sorry we had to do the mod's job.....

I don't know why Pet was even brought up.
 
Top