Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
hyroot said:
from my experience. De stops working when its wet and clumps.up too. It barely works when its dry.. Oil based /castile ipm's is the best way to go.
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When i saw what i interpreted as indications of a potentially impending pest situation, i grabbed my bottle of Dr. Bronner's Tea Tree Oil Pure Castile Hemp Soap, and gave my drain liner a few drops, while the runoff was still running off...

Whether it was the soap or something else, i'm not sure... but i didn't have pests. I suppose it's possible they 'just left' (or i imagined them in the first place?), but i prefer to think i did something useful.
 
DonTesla

DonTesla

Well-Known Member
Pattahabi said:
I'll attach a pdf that should give more insight into DE. DE kills insects by absorbing the oils off of the insects, and is least effective in a moist environment:

From the PDF:
The DE becomes ineffective in a moist environment, not because water fouls or saturates the absorptive surface, but because insects can constantly replenish their waterloss by eating the moist grain.

From Wiki:
Arthropods die as a result of the water pressure deficiency, based on Fick's law of diffusion. This also works against gastropods and is commonly employed in gardening to defeat slugs. However, since slugs inhabit humid environments, efficacy is very low. It is sometimes mixed with an attractant or other additives to increase its effectiveness.

I do not use pyrethrum. Especially not the kind in the aerosol cans.

So who are the professors at Oakerdamn... Subtool? Did your quote come from their website? Sounds like stoner marketing for people that can't make it through a real horticulture program.

P-
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Hahaha ..
No no, just from wiki, like you, lol. It's a real story, the raids were on April 2nd of 2012. I think it would take a pretty good enthusiast to take a year off, relocate, pay money and risk a day like this 'at school':
image.jpg

But hey, I'm not here to critique horticulture programs or how one chooses to learn and grow..I was just wondering about the flower found naturally in nature, if anyone uses it. Aerosol, if anyone knows my style, would not even get considered, not for a second.
Ha- We are getting as snooty (in a good way) as Hyroot when it comes to foolish products.. That was a complement hy

All natural, plant and earth based organics is our preferred route I would say..

That said, I'm just trying to protect healthy fungal spores and plant tissues from their attacks and galls, and especially their diseases they carry ..

Im thinking, moisture and clumping aside, more as a stationary preventative, since the thrips have a couple pupal stages the DE, which is natural diatomite (sharp, fossilized skeletal remains of aquatic plants) that it would be a bitch for the soft bellied thrips whose yet to form their exoskeleton, reproductive organs, wings etc to land and live on.. To extract its beneficial silica and iron, though, and to water soil, one would have to water it as needed but then it could dry out.
Was gonna use bigger rocks vs small pellets..

Can thrips really eat skeletons to excrete its moisture and grow all its adults parts just from maintaining its water?
That'd be wild if so.. Cause then for sure they could extract moisture from a cover crop like clover, no sweat.

image.jpg

Here's an adult ready for war..
image.jpg

Here's a little transparent baby ready for a death defying (or inducing) drop:
image.jpg
* anyone wanna babysit? Lol

"Only two families of parasitoid Hymenoptera are known to parasitize eggs and larvae, the Eulophidae and the Trichogrammatidae. Other biocontrol agents of adults and larvae include aphid wasps, anthocorid bugs of genus Orius, and phytoseiid mites."
-wiki

@hyroot are you talking something like organic lavender Castile soap ?
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
For thrips I've successfully used neem cake top dress, neem oil spray. If by some chance neem oil foliar doesn't work, or if you want to go straight to the big guns, spinosad wipes em out. Use spinosad with caution. Karanja can be substituted for neem.

Calling Oakerdamn a horticulture program is a far stretch of the imagination to say the least. You of all people should understand the money making scam going on there. I wouldn't be surprised to see ads for high times and sun systems in the 'text books'.

I think you should go with the DE. Keep us updated how it works. For the record, I have tried it. Be sure to wear a respirator when using that stuff. Not something you want in your lungs.

Peace!

P-
 
Mohican

Mohican

Well-Known Member
Even a dandelion tea would be faster!

I add bone to my garden and it takes forever to break down. I just keep doing little slow things every year and the soil keeps getting better and better. The worms are getting happier and happier :)

Cheers,
Mo
 
DonPetro

DonPetro

Well-Known Member
Well to me thats what its all about...slow and steady breakdown. I have yet to use the DE rocks as i never really saw a need for it. But it was a freebie so eventually i'll get around to it. For now i'm focusing on about 6 amendments...alfalfa meal, kelp meal, neem meal, greensand, rock phosphate and zeolite.
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
DonPetro said:
Well to me thats what its all about...slow and steady breakdown. I have yet to use the DE rocks as i never really saw a need for it. But it was a freebie so eventually i'll get around to it. For now i'm focusing on about 6 amendments...alfalfa meal, kelp meal, neem meal, greensand, rock phosphate and zeolite.
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Don't forget some rock dust!

P-
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
DonPetro said:
Wouldn't mind but hard to source where i'm at. I figured i had the mineral side of things covered. And i know they take a while to break down but i feel thats sorta the point with recycling.
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Just a thought, but you could check your local landscape yard for some granite crusher fines. This will add some benefits you will not get from zeolite, SRP, greensand, etc.

I'm curious about Zeolite being an aluminasilicate. I'm pretty sure using fulpower could actually chelate some of the aluminum. Not sure how much of an issue this could cause, but something I've been pondering.

And I agree with Mo, oyster shell and crab meal would be a couple others I would consider.

Not tellin, just sayin... ;)

P-
 
DonPetro

DonPetro

Well-Known Member
Pattahabi said:
Just a thought, but you could check your local landscape yard for some granite crusher fines. This will add some benefits you will not get from zeolite, SRP, greensand, etc.

I'm curious about Zeolite being an aluminasilicate. I'm pretty sure using fulpower could actually chelate some of the aluminum. Not sure how much of an issue this could cause, but something I've been pondering.

And I agree with Mo, oyster shell and crab meal would be a couple others I would consider.

Not tellin, just sayin... ;)

P-
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I plan on implementing oyster shells as my aeration amendment.
 
zonderkop

zonderkop

Well-Known Member
While we're on the subject, here's a soil mix excerpt from my book (only step 1):

How to Organically Garden in 8 easy-to-moderately bothersome steps:

1. Make your soil mix according to the following ratios.[1]

BASE MIX
There are two options for the base mix
o A ratio of 1:1:2 (one part compost, one part aeration element, and two parts peat moss)
o A ratio of 1:1:1 (one part compost, one part aeration element, and one part peat moss)
o Of the two ratio options, all equal parts (1:1:1) is great for a beginner gardener because the higher ratio of aeration element makes overwatering difficult to do, and the ratio option with more sphagnum peat moss (1:1:2) retains moisture for longer periods of time, so it works well for sprouting seeds
​
o One part compost (most important ingredient)
§ Preferably, use "living"[2] earth worm castings or other high-quality compost
§ Ideally, use a mixture of different compost types
§ Low on compost? Try a combination of soil and compost, up to half soil (commercial or recycled) and half compost
​
o One part pebbled-sized red lava rock, pumice, rice hulls, or other aeration element

o One part or two parts sphagnum peat moss
§ Hydrate before measuring and mixing, preferably using a wetting agent​
· The total volume of the combined Base Mix in cubic feet dictates how much of each Soil Amendment you will add

SOIL AMENDMENTS
· Combine the Soil Amendments, then add to the Base Mix
· The given quantities are for each cubic foot of the Base Mix you made
  • Mineral mix (essential)
    • 2 to 4 cups rock dusts, including at least one of the following: glacial rock dust, basalt, bentonite, Azomite rock dust, and/or other minerals
    • The mineral mix can be exclusively glacial rock dust
    • No more than 1 cup each of other rock dusts (basalt, etc.) for each cubic foot of Base Mix
    • Mix and match depending on local availability
  • Meal mix (performance enhancers)
  • A soil with 4 cups of meal mix typically only needs water from seed to harvest and may not need topdressings or botanical teas for the first crop. It also works well for small-container gardening (containers around 5 gallons)
  • 2 to 4 cups total meal mix, containing the following
    • ½ to 1 cup neem meal
      • Improves plant immunity and soil balance
    • ½ to 2 cups kelp meal
      • Provides a broad spectrum of trace elements, among other benefits
    • ½ to 1 cup crab shell meal
      • Calcium source, for calcium-hungry plants; pH buffer
    • ½ cup alfalfa meal (optional)
      • Source of nitrogen, among other goodies
    • ½ to 1 cup all-purpose dry organic fertilizer (optional)
      • Can replace kelp and crab shell for a simple soil amendment mix
      • Conversely, it is not needed when you already have kelp and crab shell
      • Example fertilizers: Epsoma Tomato-tone and Garden-tone, Happy Frog All-Purpose and Tomato and Vegetable, and similar products by Dr. Earth and Down to Earth
  • Liming agents (optional, but recommended for soils intended for multiple harvests)
    • 1 cup oyster shell flour or gypsum powder
      • Calcium source, for calcium-hungry plants; pH buffer
      • Can use ½ cup of each for a total of 1 cup
  • Biochar (optional)
    • add up to 10% of the Base Mix's volume
    • Biochar can be bought from gardening suppliers and should be broken up in small pieces
    • Natural charcoal, which is the variety made from hardwood (not briquettes), can also be used
    • Activate Biochar by mixing it with living compost or soaking it in compost tea for a few days before mixing with soil
[1] Credit goes to Headtreep, Cann, Ganja Girl, and ClackamasCootz, of the Recycled Organic Living Soil Internet boards, for the particular ratios and combination of ingredients.
[2] "Living" means moist compost with active bacterial and fungal populations; completely dry is useless.
 
Pattahabi

Pattahabi

Well-Known Member
@zonderkop that's a nice overview! Is this a book you wrote?

I'm curious about this part:

The mineral mix can be exclusively glacial rock dust

No more than 1 cup each of other rock dusts (basalt, etc.) for each cubic foot of Base Mix

Why can the mix be exclusively GRD, but not all basalt? I'm also curious about the liming agents. Gysum on it's own will not affect pH. It needs calcium carbonate to deconstruct. I think using the 1/2c of each is the better option.

Nice post!

P-
 
Midwest Weedist

Midwest Weedist

Well-Known Member
zonderkop said:
While we're on the subject, here's a soil mix excerpt from my book (only step 1):

How to Organically Garden in 8 easy-to-moderately bothersome steps:

1. Make your soil mix according to the following ratios.[1]

BASE MIX
There are two options for the base mix
o A ratio of 1:1:2 (one part compost, one part aeration element, and two parts peat moss)
o A ratio of 1:1:1 (one part compost, one part aeration element, and one part peat moss)
o Of the two ratio options, all equal parts (1:1:1) is great for a beginner gardener because the higher ratio of aeration element makes overwatering difficult to do, and the ratio option with more sphagnum peat moss (1:1:2) retains moisture for longer periods of time, so it works well for sprouting seeds
​
o One part compost (most important ingredient)
§ Preferably, use "living"[2] earth worm castings or other high-quality compost
§ Ideally, use a mixture of different compost types
§ Low on compost? Try a combination of soil and compost, up to half soil (commercial or recycled) and half compost
​
o One part pebbled-sized red lava rock, pumice, rice hulls, or other aeration element

o One part or two parts sphagnum peat moss
§ Hydrate before measuring and mixing, preferably using a wetting agent​
· The total volume of the combined Base Mix in cubic feet dictates how much of each Soil Amendment you will add

SOIL AMENDMENTS
· Combine the Soil Amendments, then add to the Base Mix
· The given quantities are for each cubic foot of the Base Mix you made
  • Mineral mix (essential)
    • 2 to 4 cups rock dusts, including at least one of the following: glacial rock dust, basalt, bentonite, Azomite rock dust, and/or other minerals
    • The mineral mix can be exclusively glacial rock dust
    • No more than 1 cup each of other rock dusts (basalt, etc.) for each cubic foot of Base Mix
    • Mix and match depending on local availability
  • Meal mix (performance enhancers)
  • A soil with 4 cups of meal mix typically only needs water from seed to harvest and may not need topdressings or botanical teas for the first crop. It also works well for small-container gardening (containers around 5 gallons)
  • 2 to 4 cups total meal mix, containing the following
    • ½ to 1 cup neem meal
      • Improves plant immunity and soil balance
    • ½ to 2 cups kelp meal
      • Provides a broad spectrum of trace elements, among other benefits
    • ½ to 1 cup crab shell meal
      • Calcium source, for calcium-hungry plants; pH buffer
    • ½ cup alfalfa meal (optional)
      • Source of nitrogen, among other goodies
    • ½ to 1 cup all-purpose dry organic fertilizer (optional)
      • Can replace kelp and crab shell for a simple soil amendment mix
      • Conversely, it is not needed when you already have kelp and crab shell
      • Example fertilizers: Epsoma Tomato-tone and Garden-tone, Happy Frog All-Purpose and Tomato and Vegetable, and similar products by Dr. Earth and Down to Earth
  • Liming agents (optional, but recommended for soils intended for multiple harvests)
    • 1 cup oyster shell flour or gypsum powder
      • Calcium source, for calcium-hungry plants; pH buffer
      • Can use ½ cup of each for a total of 1 cup
  • Biochar (optional)
    • add up to 10% of the Base Mix's volume
    • Biochar can be bought from gardening suppliers and should be broken up in small pieces
    • Natural charcoal, which is the variety made from hardwood (not briquettes), can also be used
    • Activate Biochar by mixing it with living compost or soaking it in compost tea for a few days before mixing with soil
[1] Credit goes to Headtreep, Cann, Ganja Girl, and ClackamasCootz, of the Recycled Organic Living Soil Internet boards, for the particular ratios and combination of ingredients.
[2] "Living" means moist compost with active bacterial and fungal populations; completely dry is useless.
Click to expand...
I can't tell you how hard it was for me to source the individual ratios for all of the amendments you listed, especially the meals, when I switched to the rols / notill grow style. I would have loved to have seen this information in one place then. One thing I would suggest is adding karanja in with the neem by simply cutting the neem in half and using the same amount removed for the karanja.
 
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