looking for advice on flush period

nomofatum

Well-Known Member
From recent interactions with Pinworm, I'm surprised to be saying this, but I totally agree with Pinworm on flushing. Don't do it, illogical and fails side by side at least in weight, the rest is personal opinion/delusion to be debated freely. If you have clones running I would encourage you to flush one/some and don't flush the rest, compare your results after drying and again after curing. If you notice a difference I expect it will be before curing. Test blind so you don't make yourself believe what you want to believe (we all tend to do this.)

Don't bother comparing if they aren't clones, they will be too different anyway even if same strain from seed.
 
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althor

Well-Known Member
From recent interactions with Pinworm, I'm surprised to be saying this, but I totally agree with Pinworm on flushing. Don't do it, illogical and fails side by side at least in weight, the rest is personal opinion/delusion to be debated freely. If you have clones running I would encourage you to flush one/some and don't flush the rest, compare your results after drying and again after curing. If you notice a difference I expect it will be before curing. Test blind so you don't make yourself believe what you want to believe (we all tend to do this.)

Don't bother comparing if they aren't clones, they will be too different anyway even if same strain from seed.
Yeah I have done this experiment on atleast 50 plants over the years and each and every time I do it, those who smoke (without knowing which is which) have prefered the flush 100% of the time. So whether there is anything to it or not, I dont care, the people who use my product prefer flushed (without knowing it).

Now I suggest you try the same experiment and let others smoke without knowing and come back with your results.


Of those here who are debating it, please post if you have done any experiments yourself that come close to what I have done and what the results were.

Pinworm, Md, etc?

How many plants (clones) have you done a side by side with to test flushing?

Just for the record, I have done the exact same experiments using the dark cycle and then flush/dark cycle, no flush/dark cycle.

Many many times, I am not just pulling something out of my ass, I did this over YEARS of growing to see what my preferance was, have you?

Or are you basing it on reading? Or I have never flushed so I know I dont need to kinda bullshit?
 
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MD914

Well-Known Member
Yeah I have done this experiment on atleast 50 plants over the years and each and every time I do it, those who smoke (without knowing which is which) have prefered the flush 100% of the time. So whether there is anything to it or not, I dont care, the people who use my product prefer flushed (without knowing it).

Now I suggest you try the same experiment and let others smoke without knowing and come back with your results.


Of those here who are debating it, please post if you have done any experiments yourself that come close to what I have done and what the results were.

Pinworm, Md, etc?

How many plants (clones) have you done a side by side with to test flushing?

Just for the record, I have done the exact same experiments using the dark cycle and then flush/dark cycle, no flush/dark cycle.

Many many times, I am not just pulling something out of my ass, I did this over YEARS of growing to see what my preferance was, have you?

Or are you basing it on reading? Or I have never flushed so I know I dont need to kinda bullshit?
It is my OPINION that flushing is for toilets. I am not challenging nor am I criticizing your opinion, I am simply voicing my own as I have EVERY right to.
I grow organically, totally and completely organically so I have no need to flush. I'm also on a screen which would make it quite difficult to accomplish such a task.
I have, however, in the past flushed my plants in crappy soil or soiless and my opinion stands.

Your post is both presumptuous and offensive. With so many years of growing experience one would expect you to pick up some manners along the way o_O
 

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
So whether there is anything to it or not, I dont care
It's beyond obvious that you care. You desperately want us to believe you when all you can provide is your word that it just "makes plants better". You are very narrow minded.

Of those here who are debating it
This isn't a debate. This is a joke. You were the one to challenge my claim, and that means you bear the burden of proof. So far you have failed to do anything but prove what an asshole you are.

I am not just pulling something out of my ass, ?
That is exactly what you are doing.

I did this over YEARS of growing to see what my preferance was, have you?
This comment again? --to see what my *preference *is---

If you plan to argue with someone, try doing it with properly spelled words, and properly thought out cohesive sentence structure. You are lacking in both here.
Don't be mad that my bud is better than yours, you cant help it.
.
You are a hypocrite, and an asshole, and have still yet to add anything to this conversation.
 

weedenhanced

Well-Known Member
Don't flush for taste reason flush for bud growth explosions
Week 3 of flower flush 20 gal water through pots
Let entire pot dry 3 to 5 days
Resume nuts as normal adding a booster at this time for first feed after dry out
Week 6 repeat
I agree flushing to increase taste is bullshit it don't do shit ur plants need all the nutrients they can get near the end cause they grow the most then
 

daedalux

Well-Known Member
Yeah I have done this experiment on atleast 50 plants over the years and each and every time I do it, those who smoke (without knowing which is which) have prefered the flush 100% of the time. So whether there is anything to it or not, I dont care, the people who use my product prefer flushed (without knowing it).

Now I suggest you try the same experiment and let others smoke without knowing and come back with your results.


Of those here who are debating it, please post if you have done any experiments yourself that come close to what I have done and what the results were.

Pinworm, Md, etc?

How many plants (clones) have you done a side by side with to test flushing?

Just for the record, I have done the exact same experiments using the dark cycle and then flush/dark cycle, no flush/dark cycle.

Many many times, I am not just pulling something out of my ass, I did this over YEARS of growing to see what my preferance was, have you?

Or are you basing it on reading? Or I have never flushed so I know I dont need to kinda bullshit?
You expect people to buy this? "Oh oh but my friends say they like it" LOL
 

Heygurlll

Active Member
MY TURN! :)
My flushed plants are better than my non-flushed plants. I have tried it 1000s of time and I feel there is a difference.
Yeah I have done this experiment on atleast 50 plants over the years and each and every time I do it, those who smoke (without knowing which is which) have prefered the flush 100% of the time. So whether there is anything to it or not, I dont care, the people who use my product prefer flushed (without knowing it).

BLAH BLAH BLAH......

Just for the record, I have done the exact same experiments using the dark cycle and then flush/dark cycle, no flush/dark cycle.

Many many times, I am not just pulling something out of my ass, I did this over YEARS of growing to see what my preferance was, have you?

Or are you basing it on reading? Or I have never flushed so I know I dont need to kinda bullshit?
I MEAN GOOD GOD BETTY!?! Is this compulsive?






Sorry. Scrubs Marathon.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
So in otherwords, NOPE, none of you have performed your own experiments.

One guy so desperate he is pulling on the grammar nazi in him to try and "win".

But, apparently I am the only one in this whole thread who has actually done experiments in flushing but everyone else are the experts.

Until you have done flushing experiments you have no legs to stand on....

You can criticize my experiments, but atleast I have done them, you are basing your opinion on? wait you arent basing it on anything at all.....

So sure... Flushed bud is better than non-flushed. Fact.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
MY TURN! :)




I MEAN GOOD GOD BETTY!?! Is this compulsive?






Sorry. Scrubs Marathon.

Hrm, ok whatever.... I am OCD, its a problem I have dealt with for a long time and is also why I do experiments like the above, I cant help myself.

Does that make you feel better about yourself?
 

althor

Well-Known Member
It's beyond obvious that you care. You desperately want us to believe you when all you can provide is your word that it just "makes plants better". You are very narrow minded.



This isn't a debate. This is a joke. You were the one to challenge my claim, and that means you bear the burden of proof. So far you have failed to do anything but prove what an asshole you are.



That is exactly what you are doing.


This comment again? --to see what my *preference *is---

If you plan to argue with someone, try doing it with properly spelled words, and properly thought out cohesive sentence structure. You are lacking in both here.

You are a hypocrite, and an asshole, and have still yet to add anything to this conversation.

We are supposed to believe you and you have absolutely nothing?
 

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
So in otherwords, NOPE, none of you have performed your own experiments.

One guy so desperate he is pulling on the grammar nazi in him to try and "win".

But, apparently I am the only one in this whole thread who has actually done experiments in flushing but everyone else are the experts.

Until you have done flushing experiments you have no legs to stand on....

You can criticize my experiments, but atleast I have done them, you are basing your opinion on? wait you arent basing it on anything at all.....

So sure... Flushed bud is better than non-flushed. Fact.
neckbeard-trilby[1].jpg
Hrm, ok whatever....
102690-tipping-intensifies-gif-neckbe-HLOi[1].gif
We are supposed to believe you and you have absolutely nothing?
9ba[1].gif

The neckbeard is strong in you. There is no need to be upset.
 

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
When you have nothing to back up your posts, start posting pictures....
Nice UncleBuck deflection...

Nothing to back up your claims at all, but dumb pictures... Good job.
So, provide a link to these tests you've done, mr. neckbeard.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
It is my OPINION that flushing is for toilets. I am not challenging nor am I criticizing your opinion, I am simply voicing my own as I have EVERY right to.
I grow organically, totally and completely organically so I have no need to flush. I'm also on a screen which would make it quite difficult to accomplish such a task.
I have, however, in the past flushed my plants in crappy soil or soiless and my opinion stands.

Your post is both presumptuous and offensive. With so many years of growing experience one would expect you to pick up some manners along the way o_O
MD, did you read the whole thread? I was offering an opinion, not talking shit towards anyone or calling any names, then pinworm starts calling names and somehow I am the one "presumptuous and offensive" and should have picked up "some manners along the way"? How did that happen?
 

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
There have been a lot of debates on this forum about flushing and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it in general flushing has its place in gardening and in the real world (other than MJ forums) is referred to as leeching

This will be a long read but I hope it will set the record straight for everyone, this has been posted in several places here but I am putting to post together to clear things up a bit for all of you

first a ditty from Sensi Seeds with links verifying,,,

From an administrator at Sensi Seeds

"Advanced - Flushing

A critical look at preharvest flushing

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.
"Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn't be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue."

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/

Here's a good read for anyone that's still dumb enough to think flushing is some how beneficial.
 
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MD914

Well-Known Member
MD, did you read the whole thread? I was offering an opinion, not talking shit towards anyone or calling any names, then pinworm starts calling names and somehow I am the one "presumptuous and offensive" and should have picked up "some manners along the way"? How did that happen?
By including "MD" in your post therefore dragging me into such a redundant argument. One that I am not a part of and refuse to be a victim of...Pinworm didn't address me in any of his posts you did :)
It's ok for others to have an opinion that is different from yours...unless your in a country controlled by ISIS of course :bigjoint:
 
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