Am I Right To Start Flushing Now?

F

fatc2k3

Well-Known Member
what do u recommend feeding till the finish , ? surely that will taste like sh!t? I havent flushed previously this grow and my ec was at 2.1 for weeks , surely with that many nutes in the system it will affect taste?
not questioning judgement but could u explain why no flush? my ec has also dropped these last couple of weeks ,they have just been lapping up water . My ec now stands at about 1.4.

On a side note how long till finish do u think?
 
Cpappa27

Cpappa27

Well-Known Member
If you flush it your going to starve it of nutrients and energy along with shocking the hell out of it at a very crucial point in its life. You can drop the EC down some but don't flush anything and certainly don't stop feeding it. If you don't dry and cure properly the I don't care what you do, your bud will taste like shit. Good Luck
 
chuck estevez

chuck estevez

Well-Known Member
fatc2k3 said:
what do u recommend feeding till the finish , ? surely that will taste like sh!t? I havent flushed previously this grow and my ec was at 2.1 for weeks , surely with that many nutes in the system it will affect taste?
not questioning judgement but could u explain why no flush? my ec has also dropped these last couple of weeks ,they have just been lapping up water . My ec now stands at about 1.4.

On a side note how long till finish do u think?
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start backing the amount of nutes down, but as said, don't stop feeding, buds don't have ferts in them, photosynthesis turns nutrient ions into starch and glucose which is the food that feeds the fruit(bud)

 
Lysergicpt

Lysergicpt

Well-Known Member
What strain is that ? she looks to have some sativa genetics leaves , so you will have a longer period for harvest , i actually dont agree with some that was already said, but we all have diferent opinions , Your buds will already have a tasty harsh smell i think , your leaves are to dark green and buds too leafy , you gave her too much N during flowering (common mistake for a beginner , dont worry) , but anyway ,if you used salt based nutes yes when you fell she ready do a very good flush , and let her stay for 1 more week with just water (it's not like she will feed on THC or buds get smaller , she will only feed on acumulated nutrients)
If you enjoy for a good smoke , you should let her starv , she is not a pregnat women like the other user said , unless you want to smoke the baby after hes born , i think its a completly diferent thing . but anyway.
Buds saturated with salt based nutes in harvest , will take FOREVER to dry , and fucking long to cure, and will have a harsh smoke no matter what you do .. especially N satured .. thats the worst .
 
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Pinworm

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
There have been a lot of debates on this forum about flushing and there is a lot of misunderstanding about it in general flushing has its place in gardening and in the real world (other than MJ forums) is referred to as leeching

This will be a long read but I hope it will set the record straight for everyone, this has been posted in several places here but I am putting to post together to clear things up a bit for all of you

first a ditty from Sensi Seeds with links verifying,,,

From an administrator at Sensi Seeds

"Advanced - Flushing

A critical look at preharvest flushing

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Nutrient fundamentals and uptake:

A good read about plant nutrition can be found here.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.

http://www.biol.sc.edu/courses/bio102/f99-3637.html

http://www.hort.wisc.edu/cran/Publications/2001 Proceedings/min_nutr.pdf

The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.

http://acd.ucar.edu/~eholland/encyc6.html

Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.

http://www.sidwell.edu

You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.

http://www.sirinet.net

Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.

http://generalhorticulture.tamu.edu

Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.

http://jeb.biologists.org.pdf

Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.
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"Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.
The grower should react in an educated way to the plants needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn't be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue."

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/
 
Lysergicpt

Lysergicpt

Well-Known Member
Pinworm said:
"Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are losing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.
The grower should react in an educated way to the plants needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn't be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue."

https://www.rollitup.org/t/the-truth-about-flushing.409622/
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I can't agree more with you , the problem is that he is already in harvest window , and if you look at his plant ayou see that she is saturated with nutrients, that is why i recomended flush , or that buds will taste ... bad. and take forever to dry and cure.
 
blimey

blimey

Active Member
Pinworm said:
Name any other fruit or vegetable you grow that needs to be flushed before harvesting...
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Name any other fruit or vegetable that you smoke. Your lungs are more sensitive than your stomach.
Imo you should stop using base nutes when your buds stop growin and you are waiting for trichs to turn.

Edit: Honestly taste and whatever else aside, I see no reason to give the plant nutrients when it's not growing.
I'm not saying he's at that point yet though, I'd have to see trichs and get a good look at the plant.
 
Pinworm

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
blimey said:
Name any other fruit or vegetable that you smoke. Your lungs are more sensitive than your stomach.
Imo you should stop using base nutes when your buds stop growin and you are waiting for trichs to turn.

Edit: Honestly taste and whatever else aside, I see no reason to give the plant nutrients when it's not growing.
I'm not saying he's at that point yet though, I'd have to see trichs and get a good look at the plant.
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That's your opinion. You are entitled to it. I grow organically and do not need to flush to get a smooth, amazing tasting harvest.
 
blimey

blimey

Active Member
Pinworm said:
That's your opinion. You are entitled to it. I grow organically and do not need to flush to get a smooth, amazing tasting harvest.
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Lol, of course you don't, you're growing organic soil, I didn't flush either when I did that, now that I grow hydro I do, OP is growing hydro.
 
Pinworm

Pinworm

Well-Known Member
blimey said:
Lol, of course you don't, you're growing organic soil, I didn't flush either when I did that, now that I grow hydro I do, OP is growing hydro.
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Can you explain why the medium makes any difference when it comes to your opinion that flushing is somehow beneficial?
 
blimey

blimey

Active Member
It's not even that I think flushing is definitely beneficial I'll call it a maybe to be conservative. But I don't think adding nutrients when your plant is done growing is beneficial. Since it's not beneficial and it might actually be better not to, why would you?
I forget what I edited but with organic soil flushing would be dumping loads of water and washing out your soil destroying all the micro cultures. With hydro I'm saying to just not add base nutes, not to try and rinse the medium out or anything.
 
blimey

blimey

Active Member
Tempted to rez that lol.
Anyways, to sum up the thread, even though I think you should flush, after looking at the pictures again I don't think you're ready.
 
jarvild

jarvild

Well-Known Member
Any good farmer will tell you lower your nutes' the last week before harvest if growing chemically. And most Commercial Farmers harvest before their crops are ripe. I taper my feed down to 0 ppms the last watering
 
Lysergicpt

Lysergicpt

Well-Known Member
Pinworm said:
Name any other fruit or vegetable you grow that needs to be flushed before harvesting...
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Any vegetable that you fertelize before chop will taste worst , i have a vegetable and fruit store bio and tradicional, and grow most of the vegetables for my store so probably you dont want to go that way , my knowlege doesnt stick with cannabis like many m8 , i have long experience in horticules and fruits.
and for shure you dont want to give chemicals nutes near chop time unless you dont know what your doing
 
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