Ethics & Seeds

[GOLDBERG71]

I just figure with the ballasts bulbs nutes soil ect that I buy I can afford the little bit extra to support those who actually made available the strains I desire.

 

[GOLDBERG71]

You are correct, but you just described F1 genetics, not a stabilized line. It is just Mendelian, F1 has a couple phenos, F2 has a TON, by the time you get to F7+ you can usually isolate traits to appear with reliability and could possibly narrow it down to a single phenotype.

I covered that at the end of the post I believe

 

[thenotsoesoteric]

and where do you think those 'old school' breeders got their start? you think they magically farted out a seed and exclaimed, "I hereby call this strain AK47"?

more often than not, breeders get cuts and cross them or get a seed and a cut and cross. usually the seeds are not bag seed.. once in a rare while do you see that. i believe chemdawg was a bag seed, and so was ATF, and im sure there are others.

but without pollen chuckers, we wouldn't have some of the great strains we have today.

high horse. get off it.

You basically repeated what I said. No single person came up with any gene pool, they simply worked it. But if you pick up where someone left off, you should mention that when you advertise "your" product.

How hard is it to grasp a concept. I don't give two shits if a breeder went out and scored every clone only strain and makes seeds from those clones against the giver's wishes, that's not my issue. I'm saying if person X uses a strain that person Y has already put time and effort into, then person X should simply give credit to that and not simply just call their product by the same name.

 

[see4]

You basically repeated what I said. No single person came up with any gene pool, they simply worked it. But if you pick up where someone left off, you should mention that when you advertise "your" product.

How hard is it to grasp a concept. I don't give two shits if a breeder went out and scored every clone only strain and makes seeds from those clones against the giver's wishes, that's not my issue. I'm saying if person X uses a strain that person Y has already put time and effort into, then person X should simply give credit to that and not simply just call their product by the same name.

I partially agree. Some clone only strains go for big money, like royalties. In business, if I pay a large royalty to a company for rights of use, I am not required to make any mention of the licensor. Same goes for pot. BUT, if a breeder is freely distributing, or making easily accessible, clone strains, then yes, I agree the new pollen chucker should at least make mention.

Now, beyond the business scope of this argument, and more into the scientific; it only makes sense you provide as much lineage information as possible, it builds pedigree.

If that is what you were saying, then yes, I repeated what you said.

 

[GrowUrOwnDank]

Yeah, because I'm fifty. And again, are you retarded? I'm not talking shit about strains from my apparently ancient past. You should have stayed in school a little while longer and developed your reading comprehension more thoroughly.

I'm talking about giving simple credit for people's work. I never said I had a problem with people using genetics at free will, you're just having trouble understanding my ancient tongue. By the way it's English with correct grammar and syntax.

Typically middle ager can't let go of back in the day BS. We don't need no disk breaks. Dem drum brakes work jest fine.

Come on geritol man. Grow up. There are so many great strains out there right now, not one breeder can say they "created a miracle". It's merely been a steady evolution of breeding the best out of the best of different strains attempting to isolate favored qualities and meld them into better strains. For decades this has been going on and it gives us lots of choices from many qualified vendors. Not just your fav from back in the day. It's the future and time to embrace what the younger crowd is doing to further along the advancement of the subject material. And give them the proper acknowledgement and credit for what they do.

 

[see4]

Typically middle ager can't let go of back in the day BS. We don't need no disk breaks. Dem drum brakes work jest fine.

Come on geritol man. Grow up. There are so many great strains out there right now, not one breeder can say they "created a miracle". It's merely been a steady evolution of breeding the best out of the best of different strains attempting to isolate favored qualities and meld them into better strains. For decades this has been going on and it gives us lots of choices from many qualified vendors. Not just your fav from back in the day. It's the future and time to embrace what the younger crowd is doing to further along the advancement of the subject material. And give them the proper acknowledgement and credit for what they do.

If you personally don't breed, why are you even involved in the conversation?

If you do breed, either for yourself or others, I don't think you would be saying what you are saying.

 

[thenotsoesoteric]

LOL dude. She's been dead a little while. But you just go ahead and do your thang Geritol man.

Why would calling me Geritol man offend me? Do you even know what Geritol is? It is freaking vitamin supplements. I believe the word you're looking for is Geriatric man.

Like I said earlier, you should have stayed in school sonny boy. Now I have to go take my medications and boner pills because I'm so old.

 

[Southerner]

I think the problem is that the breeders who feel like they are being "ripped off from" want MORE than a little mention in the strain description. The "credit" isn't enough.

Personally, I dont give a shit about all the politics with seeds. The closer we are to someone owning a strain, the closer we are to a Monsanto-like system.

 

[thenotsoesoteric]

And if I was so bent on strains from my ancient past, then why did I cross Sin city's buddha's dream with delicious's seeds critical sensi star(which is feminized by the way)?

 

[GrowUrOwnDank]

If you personally don't breed, why are you even involved in the conversation?

If you do breed, either for yourself or others, I don't think you would be saying what you are saying.

This topic was originally started because on another thread a couple of the Geritol age posters were talking about back in the day genes and how much more special they were and the guys who grew them are like gods. And they trashed some good seed companies whom I've had experience with and I determined that most of the BS was being spewed by typically non-objective rollitupers who don't have a clue.

I don't breed seeds because I don't need too. The available genetics are so vast and awesome that I will not in this lifetime have enough time or resources to ever grow out every strain I like. It's that simple. I don't wanna be a wannabe. And next year their will be even better strains bred from the best of the best of last years strains.

Bottom line. That's just history and YOUR PREFERENCE. Lots of good genes out there to choose from lots of good breeders.

 

[see4]

I think the problem is that the breeders who feel like they are being "ripped off from" want MORE than a little mention in the strain description. The "credit" isn't enough.

Personally, I dont give a shit about all the politics with seeds. The closer we are to someone owning a strain, the closer we are to a Monsanto-like system.

Thank god that won't happen. Well it might, but we don't have to worry about it, because Monsanto produces products for commercial growers. There are no "commercial" growers of marijuana (just yet).

 

[see4]

This topic was originally started because on another thread a couple of the Geritol age posters were talking about back in the day genes and how much more special they were and the guys who grew them are like gods. And they trashed some good seed companies whom I've had experience with and I determined that most of the BS was being spewed by typically non-objective rollitupers who don't have a clue.

I don't breed seeds because I don't need too. The available genetics are so vast and awesome that I will not in this lifetime have enough time or resources to ever grow out every strain I like. It's that simple. I don't wanna be a wannabe. And next year their will be even better strains bred from the best of the best of last years strains.

Bottom line. You peeps need to quit whining about stupid self serving ego crap from back in the day. That's just history and YOUR PREFERENCE. Lots of good genes out there to choose from lots of good breeders.

You say a lot, but nothing of substance.

You clearly don't get what I tried to say earlier, the concept I feel is a bit over your head.

 

[Sativied]

I think the problem is that the breeders who feel like they are being "ripped off from" want MORE than a little mention in the strain description. The "credit" isn't enough.

Personally, I dont give a shit about all the politics with seeds. The closer we are to someone owning a strain, the closer we are to a Monsanto-like system.

That's all just so ironic and completely backward. You basically label the hard working breeders who deserve credit as greedy persons, while that's obviously the pocket filling pollen chuckers... and the people wanting to save $20 on seeds by buying from a ripper.

As for your monsanto comment, the opposite is in fact the case. Because the consumers in the cannabis industry support pocket filling pollen chuckers, companies like Monsanto and other greedy corporations will 'win'. Unfortunately writing 10 pages which factual examples and explain the fuck out of on all the cannabis boards isn't going to change anything, and unfortunately, time WILL tell....

When you create something, it's your creation. Ridiculous comment, yet doesn't seem obvious to many. "Ownership" in this context doesn't really apply though. As soon as you sell seeds, you sell genetics, which the buyer is imo free to use as he or she pleases. Except for one thing... and that's recreate the same strain (which is never the same but typically and unnecessarily further inbred kockoff) and sell it under the same name and fill pockets based on the hard work of the original breeder. And when you create a new strain with it's genes, give credit or yes even a share of the profit to the original breeder or a previous breeder who's work you are building on.

This thread is nuts... and reeks of socialism.... communism even... ya'll the 99% right... occupy those greedy breeders

For many years I blamed the self-proclaimed breeders, now I realize most of you don't give a fuck about quality or paying the man or the future of cannabis (ask any non-cannabis plant breeder what the effect of hybrid x hybrid x hybrid x pollen chuck x hermie bag seed elite og kush clone results in) or w/e basic principles and ethics apply here, hence, you deserve nothing more than the pollen chucking pocket fillers. Fools.

@Ace Yonder: when I said better market, I was talking 100% about a better market for growers. That's the irony...

 

[st0wandgrow]

For many years I blamed the self-proclaimed breeders, now I realize most of you don't give a fuck about quality.....

That seems like a silly comment. I have yet to run in to a grower that doesn't care about the quality of the plant, and the quality of the end product. I'm sure those people are out there, but they would be the exception to the rule.

What I don't give a fuck about is all of the drama and sniveling that goes on among breeders. If people want the "authentic" variety it's just a google search away to find out who originally bred a specific strain. Go buy the original if that's your thing. You seem to be equating that to "quality", when in reality that's not always the case. Some of the best seeds I have grown have come from pollen chuckers doing their thing in their basement. Some of the worst gear I have run has come from the "authentic" breeder. There is no correlation between price, authenticity, and quality.

I agree with you that an acknowledgement should be made when breeding with someone else's strain, but that's it. Beyond that I look at this industry no different than any other one. Competition creates better products, and cheaper prices for consumers.

 

[althor]

I also feel like a company like Dinafem has done enough work to warrant them getting their own credit without needing to share it.
They have taken strains that were good, stabilized certain traits, and in some cases have made the strain better than what you can get from the original breeder.
Of course the original breeders could easily compete. Lower the prices on their strains for one, these strains are like 20+ years old and they still want maximum money for them. If they havent made their money in all these years with the popularity of their strains and their names, then maybe they should consider restructuring their business plans.
DJ Short, Mr. Nice, Shantibaba, etc. all have an advantage just by name recognition.
I also feel like, while their strains were revolutionary to today's cannabis, they dont hold up to a lot of today's strains. They have been surpassed. Time to step out of the past and step into the NOW. Stop working on the f5 generation of the strain from 1990 and start getting the elite clones and work them.

 

[Southerner]

That's all just so ironic and completely backward. You basically label the hard working breeders who deserve credit as greedy persons, while that's obviously the pocket filling pollen chuckers... and the people wanting to save $20 on seeds by buying from a ripper.

As for your monsanto comment, the opposite is in fact the case. Because the consumers in the cannabis industry support pocket filling pollen chuckers, companies like Monsanto and other greedy corporations will 'win'. Unfortunately writing 10 pages which factual examples and explain the fuck out of on all the cannabis boards isn't going to change anything, and unfortunately, time WILL tell....

When you create something, it's your creation. Ridiculous comment, yet doesn't seem obvious to many. "Ownership" in this context doesn't really apply though. As soon as you sell seeds, you sell genetics, which the buyer is imo free to use as he or she pleases. Except for one thing... and that's recreate the same strain (which is never the same but typically and unnecessarily further inbred kockoff) and sell it under the same name and fill pockets based on the hard work of the original breeder. And when you create a new strain with it's genes, give credit or yes even a share of the profit to the original breeder or a previous breeder who's work you are building on.

This thread is nuts... and reeks of socialism.... communism even... ya'll the 99% right... occupy those greedy breeders

For many years I blamed the self-proclaimed breeders, now I realize most of you don't give a fuck about quality or paying the man or the future of cannabis (ask any non-cannabis plant breeder what the effect of hybrid x hybrid x hybrid x pollen chuck x hermie bag seed elite og kush clone results in) or w/e basic principles and ethics apply here, hence, you deserve nothing more than the pollen chucking pocket fillers. Fools.

@Ace Yonder: when I said better market, I was talking 100% about a better market for growers. That's the irony...

It seems like you are upset; there's no need for calling an opinion idiotic/ridiculous just because you don't agree with it. It doesn't make any of your points more pertinent and stops tha conversation.

Oh and actually that isn't irony at all. All that text don't mean shit because in the end all breeders built on someone else's work. Every. Single. One. It's like you said, you buy the pack, you own the genes. Would you support patenting of genes then? Should you pay reparations to all afghan farmers for using their strains somewhere in the breeding?

No person made this plant.

 

[King Arthur]

It is the new way to sit here and complain all day and not produce anything.

 

[King Arthur]

If you personally don't breed, why are you even involved in the conversation?

If you do breed, either for yourself or others, I don't think you would be saying what you are saying.

Everyone who purchases seeds was invited here, if you don't like the guests you are more than welcome to get the fuck out of my thread.

 

[see4]

Everyone who purchases seeds was invited here, if you don't like the guests you are more than welcome to get the fuck out of my thread.

This is an open forum, you don't invite people to your thread. Dumb dumb.

Umad because I'm right. And that's ok. I usually am.

 

[King Arthur]

Another troll on the ignore list, soon RIU will be a pleasant experience for me.