Is this soil mix ok???

[FamMan]

Hello peeps. I have assembled my products for my soil mix and all I have to do is go get my container (50 gal rubbermaid ruffneck and im goin to put some holes in it for air). I want to run my mix by yall and hopefully get some input on the amount each item to use or anything im missing. Thank you all. This is it:
2.5 gallons roots organic
2.5 gallons EWC
2.5 gallons perlite (xxxxl chunky stuff)
1 cup lime
4 cups azomite rock dust
1/2 cup Need meal
not sure about how much of these:
mykos (im thinkin 1 cup also will be adding to each plant site during transplanting)
some liquid karma
i will be letting it cook in my basement where its stays 65-72 degrees (in front of a window that gets 6 hours of sunlight...i know not necessary but trying to offset the 65 degree nights). I planned to also sparingly using some Botanicare pure blend, liquid karma, calmag, and silica blast.....Only when the plants seem to need it and always at 25-50 recommended strength. I know you guys dont mess with bottled nutes but this is my first time and i wasnt quite ready to take on TLO totally (goin to learn to listen to the ladies first).
Your guys input on this would mean a lot. Peace and Prosperity to you all!

 

[Pattahabi]

Cut out the lime. You don't have any raw peat which is when you would really need the lime as a pH buffer. I don't have a lot of experience with Azomite, it's also not my first choice, but if you are going to use it, I'd go closer to 1/2-1c per cu ft. Neem meal is great, ratio is good. If you can, throw 1/2-1c of kelp per cu ft.

Only add mykos to the roots at transplant. One cup would be far too much. Depending on size of plant, I add like 1tsp to 1tbsp. Get rid of the botanicare crap. Very easy soluble feed would be 1/2c alfalfa, 1/4c kelp per 4 gallons of water, aerate for 24-36 hours and water in. It is possible you could work your way up to near double that strength (1c-alfalfa,1/2c-kelp) if you felt your plants really needed it.

Next time you mix some soil, I might suggest a simple starter mix. Start with high quality fresh castings/vermicompost, and the rest will be cake.

Base Soil
33% Sphagnum Peat Moss
33% Aeration
33% High Quality EWC and/or Vermicompost
(some people run 50%/25%/25% Ratios)

To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:

1/2c Neem meal
1/2c Kelp meal
1/2c Crab meal
1/2c oyster shell
1/2c gypsum powder

2-4 cups of rock dust
basalt, granite, glacial rock dust, or any combination

Peace!

P-

 

[FamMan]

thank you for the reply!.....i gotta go to work but im goin to get back to you about this. PEACE.

 

[FamMan]

OK so you don't add any mycos to your soil mix prior to cooking it? i know it has to be in contact with the roots but i thought if i added it to the soil it would be in the areas where the roots would eventually grow.....im just assuming there. why do you feel the Botanicare stuff is 'crap'? not being argumentative but have you ever used them or seen there results firsthand? I know it doesn't fall under 'TLO' style but i have heard and read some good things about it. when i first planned this all out i was just going to use the roots soil by itself (KISS) however i thought if add my few amendments and use some of the liquid nutes i would have little bit of both methods. I have read of some people doing it with positive results. Would i be hurting my plants if i did it that way? From what i read about the Pure Blend line there is Kelp in the grow(veg formula) and in Liquid Karma so i didn't want to amend with it and get it from nutes(heard too much can cause issues). so i definitely don't need lime? I have read that with organics PH really isnt an issue(if everything in the soil web is correct)....but im still nervous about it. i have ppm and ph digitel pens but i would like to be proactive. Thank you for your reply Pattahabi. I dont get many respones in the organic forum so yours is very appreciated. Peace and Prosperity to you!

 

[the aparition]

Cut out the lime. You don't have any raw peat which is when you would really need the lime as a pH buffer. I don't have a lot of experience with Azomite, it's also not my first choice, but if you are going to use it, I'd go closer to 1/2-1c per cu ft. Neem meal is great, ratio is good. If you can, throw 1/2-1c of kelp per cu ft.

Only add mykos to the roots at transplant. One cup would be far too much. Depending on size of plant, I add like 1tsp to 1tbsp. Get rid of the botanicare crap. Very easy soluble feed would be 1/2c alfalfa, 1/4c kelp per 4 gallons of water, aerate for 24-36 hours and water in. It is possible you could work your way up to near double that strength (1c-alfalfa,1/2c-kelp) if you felt your plants really needed it.

Next time you mix some soil, I might suggest a simple starter mix. Start with high quality fresh castings/vermicompost, and the rest will be cake.

Base Soil
33% Sphagnum Peat Moss
33% Aeration
33% High Quality EWC and/or Vermicompost
(some people run 50%/25%/25% Ratios)

To each 1 c.f. of this mix I add the following:

1/2c Neem meal
1/2c Kelp meal
1/2c Crab meal
1/2c oyster shell
1/2c gypsum powder

2-4 cups of rock dust
basalt, granite, glacial rock dust, or any combination

Peace!

P-

Pattahabi, are you sayin 2-4 cups of rock dust for every c.f. ?

 

[Pattahabi]

Pattahabi, are you sayin 2-4 cups of rock dust for every c.f. ?

Yes, exactly! The original recipe I was give was 4-6 cups, but ime, and I have heard from a couple of people, there isn't much difference between 2 and 4 cups.

Peace!

P-

 

[FamMan]

anybody want to chime in. id really appreciate it. if my soil mix is a bad idea i really would like to know from people who have been here before. this is it....
roots organic
xtra chunky perlite
ewc(bought off amazon btw)
neem meal
azomite


and possibly (these are the items im not sure of...)
xtreme gardening mycos
lime (pattahabi said not needed but every where i read that has similar recipes uses it......same with adding mycos to soil recipe)...and roots organic has peat moss listed as the second ingredient and isn't that why i would add the lime....??????
liquid karma(added to the water that i moisten my soil at the beginning of the cooking process)


yes i might be using some Botanicare nutes but i not really asking about that atm anymore(im pretty sure i know how true organic growers feel about them and similar items)........Im ready to build this soil and im anxious to do it. Am i missing anything or adding something i shouldnt??? PLEASE peeps lmk if im good to go. PEACE!

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Hello peeps. I have assembled my products for my soil mix and all I have to do is go get my container (50 gal rubbermaid ruffneck and im goin to put some holes in it for air). I want to run my mix by yall and hopefully get some input on the amount each item to use or anything im missing. Thank you all. This is it:
2.5 gallons roots organic
2.5 gallons EWC
2.5 gallons perlite (xxxxl chunky stuff)
1 cup lime
4 cups azomite rock dust
1/2 cup Need meal
not sure about how much of these:
mykos (im thinkin 1 cup also will be adding to each plant site during transplanting)
some liquid karma
i will be letting it cook in my basement where its stays 65-72 degrees (in front of a window that gets 6 hours of sunlight...i know not necessary but trying to offset the 65 degree nights). I planned to also sparingly using some Botanicare pure blend, liquid karma, calmag, and silica blast.....Only when the plants seem to need it and always at 25-50 recommended strength. I know you guys dont mess with bottled nutes but this is my first time and i wasnt quite ready to take on TLO totally (goin to learn to listen to the ladies first).
Your guys input on this would mean a lot. Peace and Prosperity to you all!

Hey man, got your PM..
OK, so you are doing a cubic foot of soil (roughly)
LISTEN to pattahabi, he is one of the more informative cats on this forum, and a good guy to boot.
Ditch the bottles, i'm serious, if you use them you can/will screw up any advice we give you. Keep the silica though, assuming it's just silica.
Keep in mind the roots is fairly amended, so you don't want to add too much.
I wouldn't add more than 2-3 cups, plus the minerals.
mychorrizhae is best used only at transplant, my personal method is misting the roots with plain water (so the myco will "stick") and sprinkling the myco on the roots.
this is what i'd use, and it's not the only recipe you could use, you can grow organically with a myriad of different nutrients.
half cup of each
neem meal, crab meal, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, fish bone meal, oyster flour (I don't count this as a nutrient, more of a mineral/ph counter)
three cups of minerals (or four) one cup of rock phosphates, one cup of granite dust, one cup azomite (or whatever else you like)
Since it's a small batch I highly recommend using biochar too. I'd add 6 cups of biochar, make sure you activate it prior to mixing.
any questions feel free to pm me.
EDIT, to answer your question, NO, you do not need d-lime, use crab meal, oyster flour and biochar to help keep your soil a happy PH

 

[FamMan]

OK. I kinda gotta changeup my train of thought on this. Ditch the liquid organic nutes and amend my soil my seriously. Buying these amendements is goin to take me more time and have to get rid of all this botanicare crap. I guess that was what was holding me back....didn't want to have to add a week or two to this process. But you guys(RIU) haven't steered me wrong yet. I will rethink this and get back at y'all with what I come up with. Thank you so much for the quick reply GreaseMonkey. And thank you for everyone else that has contributed to this thread. Means a lot to me and I wont forget it. PEACE and PROSPERITY!

 

[Pattahabi]

OK so you don't add any mycos to your soil mix prior to cooking it? i know it has to be in contact with the roots but i thought if i added it to the soil it would be in the areas where the roots would eventually grow.....im just assuming there. why do you feel the Botanicare stuff is 'crap'? not being argumentative but have you ever used them or seen there results firsthand? I know it doesn't fall under 'TLO' style but i have heard and read some good things about it. when i first planned this all out i was just going to use the roots soil by itself (KISS) however i thought if add my few amendments and use some of the liquid nutes i would have little bit of both methods. I have read of some people doing it with positive results. Would i be hurting my plants if i did it that way? From what i read about the Pure Blend line there is Kelp in the grow(veg formula) and in Liquid Karma so i didn't want to amend with it and get it from nutes(heard too much can cause issues). so i definitely don't need lime? I have read that with organics PH really isnt an issue(if everything in the soil web is correct)....but im still nervous about it. i have ppm and ph digitel pens but i would like to be proactive. Thank you for your reply Pattahabi. I dont get many respones in the organic forum so yours is very appreciated. Peace and Prosperity to you!

Hey Fam! Sorry it's a little late and I'm medicated.

Mycorrhizal fungus becomes foodstock if it does not colonize roots. Therefore, adding it to a soil mix is pretty much wasting it. On the Botanicare, imo the two styles do not mix. You either build the soil food web and feed the soil, or you use soluble nutrients. I would highly suggest reading at least the first several pages in the rols/no-till thread and start getting a handle on organic soil. Be prepared to do a little reading to get a handle on organics. It is not as simple as looking for omri logos imo.

Peace!

P-

 

[FamMan]

Thank you Pattahabi for your info on all this. I am going to dig into the ROLS thread(200+ pages) and continue reading 'teaming with microbes'(i have had to reread a lot of the pages......some serious info to digest and i work 70+ hours a week). I went and picked up the amendments you guys suggested with exception of gypsum ($40 for a really big bag) and the granite dust(they didnt have but i picked up rock phosphates). i might run a small experiment.....2 out of 8 of my plants are goin to get roots organic right out the bag, not cooked, and a steady dose of the Botanicare items. The rest will be TLO with nothing but water and teas. Cant hurt right???? and i dont want to try and resell this stuff. i think it will be fun and informative. LMK if this could have any adverse affects on my TLO plants. so this what is starting to shape....

33% ROOTS ORGANIC
33% ewc by WIGGLE WORM
33% xxxl perlite

amendments (these are by DOWN TO EARTH)
1\2 cup kelp meal
1\2 cup neem meal
1\2 cup crab meal
1\2 cup oyster shell
1/2 cup fish bone meal
1\2 cup alfalfa meal

minerals:
2 cups azomite ROOT NATURALLY
2 cups rock phosphates ESPOMA

6 cups biochar BIOCHAR NOW

I also got an air stone and pump to do a tea.....i was thinking i can moisten my soil recipe with a tea to begin to cooking process.....i believe i have read it but not sure. I also read that i can activate the biochar with acct but i still gotta do more research on that.
so the plan is to add all these ingridents into my 50gal rubbermaid ruffneck that i have drilled some holes on all the sides. so some questions....
1. is the gypsum gonna make or break my recipe?
2. is the mineral mix ok? half azomite/half rock phosphates
3. should i activate the soil mix with a tea or str8 water(tap water left out for 24+ hours btw)....and wat about the biochar?
4. im goin to do some research on teas....but is EWC and molasses a good start?


I know i have more questions but cant think of them right.....PEACE!

 

[Pattahabi]

Thank you Pattahabi for your info on all this. I am going to dig into the ROLS thread(200+ pages) and continue reading 'teaming with microbes'(i have had to reread a lot of the pages......some serious info to digest and i work 70+ hours a week). I went and picked up the amendments you guys suggested with exception of gypsum ($40 for a really big bag) and the granite dust(they didnt have but i picked up rock phosphates). i might run a small experiment.....2 out of 8 of my plants are goin to get roots organic right out the bag, not cooked, and a steady dose of the Botanicare items. The rest will be TLO with nothing but water and teas. Cant hurt right???? and i dont want to try and resell this stuff. i think it will be fun and informative. LMK if this could have any adverse affects on my TLO plants. so this what is starting to shape....

33% ROOTS ORGANIC
33% ewc by WIGGLE WORM
33% xxxl perlite

amendments (these are by DOWN TO EARTH)
1\2 cup kelp meal
1\2 cup neem meal
1\2 cup crab meal
1\2 cup oyster shell
1/2 cup fish bone meal
1\2 cup alfalfa meal

minerals:
2 cups azomite ROOT NATURALLY
2 cups rock phosphates ESPOMA

6 cups biochar BIOCHAR NOW

I also got an air stone and pump to do a tea.....i was thinking i can moisten my soil recipe with a tea to begin to cooking process.....i believe i have read it but not sure. I also read that i can activate the biochar with acct but i still gotta do more research on that.
so the plan is to add all these ingridents into my 50gal rubbermaid ruffneck that i have drilled some holes on all the sides. so some questions....
1. is the gypsum gonna make or break my recipe?
2. is the mineral mix ok? half azomite/half rock phosphates
3. should i activate the soil mix with a tea or str8 water(tap water left out for 24+ hours btw)....and wat about the biochar?
4. im goin to do some research on teas....but is EWC and molasses a good start?


I know i have more questions but cant think of them right.....PEACE!

Fam, I hear you on this being a lot of work. Hang in there. The more you learn, the more it will all make sense. I only have experience using GRD and basalt at the ratios mentioned. I would not use Soft Rock Phosphate, especially not at those ratios. Maybe someone that has more expeerience using azomite can chime in about application amounts. I saw on their site (yes, azomite is just trademarked montmorillite) it can be used at up to 25% of the mix with no problems. I really have my doubts about this, but I haven't had the time or desire to do an experiment.

If you are not using plain ol SPM, the 'liming' aspect of the mix can be skipped. Meaning, it really shouldn't be a deal breaker on the gypsum. You can plant your plants and then add the teas later. I think EWC and molasses is the best/easiest tea. Often times I'll throw in a small handful/few tablespoons of EWC and like 1/4 tsp of molasses in a 5 gallon bucket with airstones. Let it bubble and water. Biochar should be activated before, however I have heard people say just mix it in with some EWC and it will be fine. I have very little biochar in my mix, so I'm probably not the best to ask on that.


Peace!

P-

 

[FamMan]

Thank u so much. U have given me many starting points to begin some research with. I appreciate your patience with my noobness! Peace and happy growing!

 

[greasemonkeymann]

Thank you Pattahabi for your info on all this. I am going to dig into the ROLS thread(200+ pages) and continue reading 'teaming with microbes'(i have had to reread a lot of the pages......some serious info to digest and i work 70+ hours a week). I went and picked up the amendments you guys suggested with exception of gypsum ($40 for a really big bag) and the granite dust(they didnt have but i picked up rock phosphates). i might run a small experiment.....2 out of 8 of my plants are goin to get roots organic right out the bag, not cooked, and a steady dose of the Botanicare items. The rest will be TLO with nothing but water and teas. Cant hurt right???? and i dont want to try and resell this stuff. i think it will be fun and informative. LMK if this could have any adverse affects on my TLO plants. so this what is starting to shape....

33% ROOTS ORGANIC
33% ewc by WIGGLE WORM
33% xxxl perlite

amendments (these are by DOWN TO EARTH)
1\2 cup kelp meal
1\2 cup neem meal
1\2 cup crab meal
1\2 cup oyster shell
1/2 cup fish bone meal
1\2 cup alfalfa meal

minerals:
2 cups azomite ROOT NATURALLY
2 cups rock phosphates ESPOMA

6 cups biochar BIOCHAR NOW

I also got an air stone and pump to do a tea.....i was thinking i can moisten my soil recipe with a tea to begin to cooking process.....i believe i have read it but not sure. I also read that i can activate the biochar with acct but i still gotta do more research on that.
so the plan is to add all these ingridents into my 50gal rubbermaid ruffneck that i have drilled some holes on all the sides. so some questions....
1. is the gypsum gonna make or break my recipe?
2. is the mineral mix ok? half azomite/half rock phosphates
3. should i activate the soil mix with a tea or str8 water(tap water left out for 24+ hours btw)....and wat about the biochar?
4. im goin to do some research on teas....but is EWC and molasses a good start?


I know i have more questions but cant think of them right.....PEACE!

It looks pretty good, with one little exception, the only issue with this is that the roots is going to be amended already, the recipe is more for an inert peat (relatively inert, minus the ph)
so that's gonna throw off your ratios a bit, to the richer side. Pat is right though, you'll have a lil too much of everything in that.
6 cups of biochar is good, especially if that's in addition to the 33%. you can either precharge it with a nutrient tea, or a AACT tea. Either way I think it's best to allow it to age along with your soil as opposed to adding it after.
what I would do is maybe buy a small bag of peat, and match it with equal amounts of lava rock and then you should be good, plus you'll have a lil extra made up for whatever
maybe a gallon of each?
oh and honestly....
if you dump that botanicare stuff on this recipe you are probably gonna create problems, maybe not, but i'd be careful, this recipe you can do with only water, i'd go like a 1/4 strength or less of whatever the bottle says.

 

[FamMan]

i have 5 bags of roots and one of them are open. im kinda stuck with them. im not goin to add any of the liquid nutes to the cooked soil. Those two plants will be just roots by itself with some perlite. I prolly am goin to changeup the mineral part as i have been doin alot of rsearch on that part. prolly will use granite and basalt if i can find it (anyone know) so you think this mix will be TOO hot with the roots? wat should i do if i still wanna use the roots? will this mix keep my pants FED from beginning to finish?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

i have 5 bags of roots and one of them are open. im kinda stuck with them. im not goin to add any of the liquid nutes to the cooked soil. Those two plants will be just roots by itself with some perlite. I prolly am goin to changeup the mineral part as i have been doin alot of rsearch on that part. prolly will use granite and basalt if i can find it (anyone know) so you think this mix will be TOO hot with the roots? wat should i do if i still wanna use the roots? will this mix keep my pants FED from beginning to finish?

sure, I don't add anything at all minus a couple teas but normally I don't have to do anything except water them.
I do like my coconut water, AACTs, SSTs, and I do one feeding of my comfrey/dandelion tea, but only because I have like 3 galoons of it left and it's lasted me 6 months already... gotta use it...
those are mostly for the extras though, not "food"
Just add a bag of peat, and match it with aeration, mix and let it sit until the middle of may or so.
I bet they'll take off like crazy.
don't change the minerals, just add the peat and aeration.
you'll be golden
Oh, and if you get the regular hardwood charcoal that can be used for biochar, it's cheap.
hippy stores have em, or you could probably order it.
I think one of the brands is called "cowboy charcoal"? But i'm a stoner, so I could be mis-remembering...

 

[FamMan]

So your saying that I can still use my roots soil?

 

[greasemonkeymann]

So your saying that I can still use my roots soil?

of course, just need to "dilute" that mix a lil to account for the nutrients already in the roots

 

[FamMan]

i already bought the bio char. so im goin to return my dlime to my grow store and pick up a bag of peat. i will get back at yall in a couple days with wat should be the final mix and hopefully get to mixing my soil. im so freaking excited. cant wait to get started. thanx.

 

[Pattahabi]

i already bought the bio char. so im goin to return my dlime to my grow store and pick up a bag of peat. i will get back at yall in a couple days with wat should be the final mix and hopefully get to mixing my soil. im so freaking excited. cant wait to get started. thanx.

If you want to save some money, go to home depot or lowes and buy a bale of peat. I pay about $12 where I am. The hydrostore is going to try and sell you promix.

P-