Red / Blue vs White LED?

[OneHitDone]

Ok, hoping to get some actual growing experiences brought to the table on this question.
Originally it seemed that the focus of led was to provide the specific wave lengths that "plants need" only using wattage to produce those thereby reducing power consumption to theoretically get the "same" results as HID lighting.
Now everyone is going to white led's.
What did your plants seem to be missing on the red/blue that they are now getting on the white's? Any photos of actual plant development structure under each as comparison?

 

[REALSTYLES]

Ok, hoping to get some actual growing experiences brought to the table on this question.
Originally it seemed that the focus of led was to provide the specific wave lengths that "plants need" only using wattage to produce those thereby reducing power consumption to theoretically get the "same" results as HID lighting.
Now everyone is going to white led's.
What did your plants seem to be missing on the red/blue that they are now getting on the white's? Any photos of actual plant development structure under each as comparison?

yeah I can show you. I use to use Mars 2 lights and got into big arguments over them here's pics of both but I'm just now flowering with the white lights only 3 days in but will keep a photo update weekly.



and here's a side by side although I didn'tuse the white panel until the last 2 weeks of flower but my run right now is all white



all white

 

[OneHitDone]

I have been checking out your posts and so far you are the only one I see with the diy cobs over an area that I would consider a "typical" space
I look forward to seeing what your opinion is on them after harvest

Right now my only issue with the diy cobs is that every other day it seems someone posts what is supposed to be a better or more efficient cob
Kind of like hunting for a unicorn lol

 

[REALSTYLES]

I have been checking out your posts and so far you are the only one I see with the diy cobs over an area that I would consider a "typical" space
I look forward to seeing what your opinion is on them after harvest

Right now my only issue with the diy cobs is that every other day it seems someone posts what is supposed to be a better or more efficient cob
Kind of like hunting for a unicorn lol

Don't worry man the unicorn is here lol. The new Cree CXB's are out and I order from Kingbrite they have the best price on the 3590's

 

[OneHitDone]

Don't worry man the unicorn is here lol. The new Cree CXB's are out and I order from Kingbrite they have the best price on the 3590's

If you were to light a 5x5 with 3590's what would your strategy be?

 

[churchhaze]

Ok, hoping to get some actual growing experiences brought to the table on this question.
Originally it seemed that the focus of led was to provide the specific wave lengths that "plants need" only using wattage to produce those thereby reducing power consumption to theoretically get the "same" results as HID lighting.
Now everyone is going to white led's.
What did your plants seem to be missing on the red/blue that they are now getting on the white's? Any photos of actual plant development structure under each as comparison?

The original focus of individual people in regards to using leds was to make remote controller for turning on and off their VCR. Then, a while after blue leds started becoming cheaper, people started trying to grow with them. People were trying to use LEDs specifically to hit plants with the right wavelengths regardless of lamp efficiency. I was there posting in DavidZap's journals when he was using those dumb traffic lights unsuccessfully. Back then, we were searching for magic R:B ratio that would finally get rid of the need for every other color.. Even if they found the perfect spectrum, their lamp efficiency was terrible. I don't know what the guys at uk420 are doing now(maybe they own LED grow light companies?).

Now that we know using only R+B doesn't actually save energy, people are more focused on the efficiency of the lamp rather than how well the plant can use the light. Since blue LED's are so efficient, it turns out that generating white light flourescently using a blue LED is more efficient than generating those individual wavelengths.

 

[REALSTYLES]

If you were to light a 5x5 with 3590's what would your strategy be?

It would run you $700 a panel just follow my DIY thread and use the CXB's instead. I have a list of what you need and how I made mine here https://www.rollitup.org/t/realstyles-6th-diy-cxa-3590-5000k-db-bin.864284/ and in the summer use two of the panels dimmed and winter 1 on full power. I'm liked and hated on here because some guys can't take a joke so if you see me acting a fool. I'm just acting please don't take me serious. I like to laugh and make people laugh too.

 

[OneHitDone]

It would run you $700 a panel just follow my DIY thread and use the CXB's instead. I have a list of what you need and how I made mine here https://www.rollitup.org/t/realstyles-6th-diy-cxa-3590-5000k-db-bin.864284/ and in the summer use two of the panels dimmed and winter 1 on full power. I'm liked and hated on here because some guys can't take a joke so if you see me acting a fool. I'm just acting please don't take me serious. I like to laugh and make people laugh too.

1 of your panels will cover a 5x5?
This is all a balancing act. I actually opted to go metal halide in my veg box just for the heat where I am located. I didn't want to have to add a heater in winter

 

[orangeade5]

1 of your panels will cover a 5x5?
This is all a balancing act. I actually opted to go metal halide in my veg box just for the heat where I am located. I didn't want to have to add a heater in winter

I believe REALSTYLES has a 4x8 tent so more like 4x4

 

[AquariusPanta]

yeah I can show you. I use to use Mars 2 lights and got into big arguments over them here's pics of both but I'm just now flowering with the white lights only 3 days in but will keep a photo update weekly.

View attachment 3407448 View attachment 3407449

and here's a side by side although I didn'tuse the white panel until the last 2 weeks of flower but my run right now is all white

View attachment 3407451

all white

View attachment 3407453 View attachment 3407455

Looking good, Real!

Your homemade fixtures looked organized and I don't see any stray wires or wing nuts floating around the room.

 

[REALSTYLES]

1 of your panels will cover a 5x5?
This is all a balancing act. I actually opted to go metal halide in my veg box just for the heat where I am located. I didn't want to have to add a heater in winter

Yeah but 2 panels ran dimmed would be better for summer and the run 1 in winter full power.

 

[gk skunky]

I don't have experience with the red and blues. But you're right on the whole idea. They looked at spectrophotometer data for adsorption peaks for chlorophyll a and b. Well a peak is truly only suggestive of just that a peak. But then those initial red blue onlys didn't account for other pigments like xantrophyls and carotenoids. Then you start getting more things added to panels like orange and other wave lengths of varying red and blue. Then more and more research and people started reading more photobiology related scientific papers. Started trying to piece together the different photosystems components that respond to other wavelengths of light that trigger certain things that are outside that normal dual absorption peak. Then there was a the whole old dogma that green light was solely reflected and that has been shown to not be entirely true as green light has shown to have deep penetration characteristics. Then the hunt for the perfect ratio and you end up with not only reds and blues, follow by the orange but then whites and ir and this and that to where you have dual, tri, quad, 6, 7, 9, 11, 15 band spectrums, etc...Then it appears people started to pay more attention to CRI, color rendering index, and looking at the whites more. Then it seems people took what they knew from all that and HPS past use and started a refining process. I don't really think monochromes could ever be anything other than a highly researched highly specific light for growing a particular variant. Just like people and plants needs aren't identical. We see that in feeding regimes alone.

 

[AquariusPanta]

I don't have experience with the red and blues. But you're right on the role idea. They looked at spectrophotometer data for adsorption peaks for chlorophyll a and b. Well a peak is truly only suggestive of just that a peak. But then those initial red blue onlys didn't account for other pigments like xantrophyls and carotenoids. Then you start getting more things added to panels like orange and other wave lengths of varying red and blue. Then more and more research and people started reading more photobiology related scientific papers. Started trying to piece together the different photosystems components that respond to other wavelengths of light that trigger certain things that are outside that normal dual absorption peak. Then there was a the whole old dogma that green lot was solely reflected and that has been shown to not be entirely true as green light has shown to have deep penetration characteristics. Then the hunt for the perfect ratio and you end up with not only reds and blues, follow by the orange but then whites and ir and this and that to where you have dual, tri, quad, 6, 7, 9, 11, 15 band spectrums, etc...Then it appears people started to pay more attention to CRI, color rendering index, and looking at the whites more. Then it seems people took what they knew from all that and HPS past use and started a refining process. I don't really think monochromes could ever be anything other than a highly researched highly specific light for growing a particular variant. Just like people and plants needs aren't identical. We see that in feeding regimes alone.

You've been toking recently, haven't you, GK?

 

[orangesabc123]

I don't have experience with the red and blues. But you're right on the role idea. They looked at spectrophotometer data for adsorption peaks for chlorophyll a and b. Well a peak is truly only suggestive of just that a peak. But then those initial red blue onlys didn't account for other pigments like xantrophyls and carotenoids. Then you start getting more things added to panels like orange and other wave lengths of varying red and blue. Then more and more research and people started reading more photobiology related scientific papers. Started trying to piece together the different photosystems components that respond to other wavelengths of light that trigger certain things that are outside that normal dual absorption peak. Then there was a the whole old dogma that green lot was solely reflected and that has been shown to not be entirely true as green light has shown to have deep penetration characteristics. Then the hunt for the perfect ratio and you end up with not only reds and blues, follow by the orange but then whites and ir and this and that to where you have dual, tri, quad, 6, 7, 9, 11, 15 band spectrums, etc...Then it appears people started to pay more attention to CRI, color rendering index, and looking at the whites more. Then it seems people took what they knew from all that and HPS past use and started a refining process. I don't really think monochromes could ever be anything other than a highly researched highly specific light for growing a particular variant. Just like people and plants needs aren't identical. We see that in feeding regimes alone.

What mixes would you recommend?

(e.g. 30% 2700k, 30% 5000k,30% 4000k, 5%blue, 5%red)

 

[REALSTYLES]

My dad was a machinist for Hughes Aircraft. He made parts for missiles and Helicopters and Tanks. I miss him he was my best friend although I hated him at times lol. What re you guys talking about?

 

[KarmaPaymentPlan]

My dad was a machinist for Hughes Aircraft. He made parts for missiles and Helicopters and Tanks. I miss him he was my best friend although I hated him at times lol. What re you guys talking about?

that's cool my great uncle was an engineer for him my gma has old photos of him and howard and some of the blue prints in her garage

 

[gk skunky]

What mixes would you recommend?

(e.g. 30% 2700k, 30% 5000k,30% 4000k, 5%blue, 5%red)

Depends. One thing that is pretty consistent is that flowering needs it's reds so given the SPD data, and CRI info we have with current leds it's pretty similar ti HID lighting. Veg you want a little extra blues like a MH so you use a 5000-6500K color temp. Flower only 2700-3000K. Both 4000-5000K

 

[OneHitDone]

So, what about this using deep blue led's with a remote phosphor? Could one maybe start with a prefab blue panel and just slap the phosphor over it to get the desired spectrum?

 

[gk skunky]

That I cannot touch on. That's a subject I'm still learning with phosphors but from what I've read it doesn't seem anywhere near that simple if you're planning on attempting yourself. Though honestly imo from what I do know and/or have seen, seems it'd be pointless. Because COB, chip on board, LEDs are much more efficient and higher outputs than monochromatic diodes and I have not seen monochrome COBs.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

That I cannot touch on. That's a subject I'm still learning with phosphors but from what I've read it doesn't seem anywhere near that simple if you're planning on attempting yourself. Though honestly imo from what I do know and/or have seen, seems it'd be pointless. Because COB, chip on board, LEDs are much more efficient and higher outputs than monochromatic diodes and I have not seen monochrome COBs.

So you don't think that monos have increased their efficiencies/output as well?................what the hell is in these highly efficient "white" diodes/cobs then?