Red / Blue vs White LED?

AquariusPanta · Apr 30, 2015

PSUAGRO. said:
So you don't think that monos have increased their efficiencies/output as well?................what the hell is in these highly efficient "white" diodes/cobs then?

From what I remember, the blue, monochromatic diodes are the most efficient between COBS, hence why 'bluer' COBS are more efficient in comparison to 'warmer' COBS, i.e. less phosphor coating.

gk skunky · Apr 30, 2015

PSUAGRO. said:
So you don't think that monos have increased their efficiencies/output as well?................what the hell is in these highly efficient "white" diodes/cobs then?

Not what I meant. Just that mono chrome LEDs used in tandem at varying ratios haven't been as efficient in panels at growing because we can't seem to get the ratios correct. Where the whites have eliminated that Guess work. I could only see future monochrome panels as tailor made type of lights for specific varieties. Was just a stoned thought. Essentially a specific light diet suited for a specific cultivar. Sense trying to get the right amount of different wavelengths using various monos is no easy task to try. otherwise we all still be using multiband panels. That make any sense? lol

coolbreez1 · Apr 30, 2015

Its not that the large size COBs are more efficient... its the complexity of the build. Who wants to wire 500x3 watt diodes... when you can just wire 15x100 watt diode arrays. Plus the large size diode arrays (COBs) can be mounted on most any aluminum slab as a heat sink simpler then mounting a CPU in a computer.

orangesabc123 · Apr 30, 2015

coolbreez1 said:
Its not that the large size COBs are more efficient... its the complexity of the build. Who wants to wire 500x3 watt diodes... when you can just wire 15x100 watt diode arrays. Plus the large size diode arrays (COBs) can be mounted on most any aluminum slab as a heat sink simpler then mounting a CPU in a computer.

Are larger LEDS really not more efficient?

It seems to be implied that they are, but maybe I'm just misunderstanding something.

coolbreez1 · Apr 30, 2015

The point I am making is that its not simply a matter of efficiency, its that the complexity of build is greatly reduced. Most people don't have the time, knowledge and equipment to build a massive light with 500 small diodes. Most anyone can wire up a few large COBs and mount them on some computer heat sinks.

Do the cost benefit calculation. If you value your time at $20 an hour, and its going to take you 10 hours to build the LED light and its only going to save you a few hundred bucks then there is not much point. The optic Vero 29 grow light with 6 Vero 29s costs $1200, I can build an similar light for $700 bucks in about 2 hours, or less mounting the lights with Kaptan tape.

orangesabc123 · Apr 30, 2015

coolbreez1 said:
The point I am making is that its not simply a matter of efficiency, its that the complexity of build is greatly reduced. Most people don't have the time, knowledge and equipment to build a massive light with 500 small diodes. Most anyone can wire up a few large COBs and mount them on some computer heat sinks.

Do the cost benefit calculation. If you value your time at $20 an hour, and its going to take you 10 hours to build the LED light and its only going to save you a few hundred bucks then there is not much point. The optic Vero 29 grow light with 6 Vero 29s costs $1200, I can build an similar light for $700 bucks in about 2 hours, or less mounting the lights with Kaptan tape.

Was genuinely curious, wasn't trying to poke holes in your argument.

On the cost/benefit though, it's kind of assuming you are forgoing hours of work. Some people have abundance of time, or genuinely enjoy doing new things, so it's not exactly a 1-1 to their hourly wage sort of deal. An argument could be made that the larger leds may be most cost effective per lumen produced, since there is less raw material in a single large led than a ton of small ones.

But I was more curious about the power efficiency.

churchhaze · Apr 30, 2015

orangesabc123 said:
Was genuinely curious, wasn't trying to poke holes in your argument.

On the cost/benefit though, it's kind of assuming you are forgoing hours of work. Some people have abundance of time, or genuinely enjoy doing new things, so it's not exactly a 1-1 to their hourly wage sort of deal. An argument could be made that the larger leds may be most cost effective per lumen produced, since there is less raw material in a single large led than a ton of small ones.

But I was more curious about the power efficiency.

Using individual leds, it would be very hard to underdrive as far as we do with cobs, so the ease argument is actually relevant. Could you imagine tripling the amount of individual leds and underdriving with 1/3 the power per led? It would be a nightmare! Adding 3 times as many cobs is possible because there's fewer to start with... If you replaced each individual diode with a cob, but ran at the same total power, you'd get a huge boost in efficiency just from the amount each individual led is underdriven, even if the individual diodes had the same efficiency as one die in the cob at identical currents.

orangesabc123 · Apr 30, 2015

churchhaze said:
Using individual leds, it would be very hard to underdrive as far as we do with cobs, so the ease argument is actually relevant. Could you imagine tripling the amount of individual leds and underdriving with 1/3 the power per led? It would be a nightmare! Adding 3 times as many cobs is possible because there's fewer to start with... If you replaced each individual diode with a cob, but ran at the same total power, you'd get a huge boost in efficiency just from the amount each individual led is underdriven, even if the individual diodes had the same efficiency as one die in the cob at identical currents.

Talking about smaller cobs vs larger ones in regards to efficiency.

churchhaze · Apr 30, 2015

orangesabc123 said:
Talking about smaller cobs vs larger ones in regards to efficiency.

It's the same with smaller cobs vs larger cobs. If you replace all your smaller cobs with larger cobs you have more under-driving potential for the same amount of physical labor done to install the cobs.

orangesabc123 · Apr 30, 2015

churchhaze said:
It's the same with smaller cobs vs larger cobs. If you replace all your smaller cobs with larger cobs you have more under-driving potential for the same amount of physical labor done to install the cobs.

Have no idea what that means, don't you just use a smaller driver if you want to undervolt?

PSUAGRO. · Apr 30, 2015

gk skunky said:
Not what I meant. Just that mono chrome LEDs used in tandem at varying ratios haven't been as efficient in panels at growing because we can't seem to get the ratios correct. Where the whites have eliminated that Guess work. I could only see future monochrome panels as tailor made type of lights for specific varieties. Was just a stoned thought. Essentially a specific light diet suited for a specific cultivar. Sense trying to get the right amount of different wavelengths using various monos is no easy task to try. otherwise we all still be using multiband panels. That make any sense? lol

Yeah I know what you meant.......just messing

I agree with you about trying to find the right mono mix, won't happen........changing specs on the fly like heliospectra could resolve it or not......Phillips is tight lipped about its led projects..

churchhaze · Apr 30, 2015

orangesabc123 said:
Have no idea what that means, don't you just use a smaller driver if you want to undervolt?

Yes, you would use a lower drive current, which would drop fewer volts, but then your light wouldn't be as bright.

Red / Blue vs White LED?

AquariusPanta

Well-Known Member

gk skunky

Well-Known Member

coolbreez1

Well-Known Member

orangesabc123

Member

coolbreez1

Well-Known Member

orangesabc123

Member

churchhaze

Well-Known Member

orangesabc123

Member

churchhaze

Well-Known Member

orangesabc123

Member

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member

churchhaze

Well-Known Member