Berry Ryder - WTF let's SEED ONE again Doh!!

diystealthgrower

Well-Known Member
Pics time:
1) Male branch of BR with ball of pollen
2) Big BR dumping pollen on smaller AKR
3) AKR bud with ball sacs of BR fallen all over AKR
4) Close up of branch of BR with Balls.
5) Garden o plenty.....overstuffed under a 600W
6) Super kind....Frosty the AKR bud with mass crystals and beautiful orange hairs...and oh the sweet smell...thanks HighLowGrow!!!
 

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EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
Wuz up Hazy? I have too many plans and not enough rooms.

I need to put off the CS on the AKR this round.

The only cab available has a Berry Ryder in it dropping pollen and flowers everywhere. This pollen will be applied to pistils of an AKR. This AKR will then occupy that cab since the same pollen is all over the damn place in there anyway.

When this ^^^ mess is done and all cleaned up, I will self an AKR again in the cab with CS.

Here is that cab. It's now 60' way away from my main room.

View attachment 3408837

I also have a 6'x6'x6' room with a 600 in there. (It's backed up to this cab in the pic). Inside are 2 Berry Ryders and 4 AKRs. Reminds me - need to start another 2-3 Berrys.

Advanced breeding plans - I don't really have any. Just producing my own seeds to get a good supply for myself and to share with others. I will never buy a cannabis seed again.

Actually BKR will be my first cross. The AKR I chose to take the Berry pollen has some hairs starting to pop out. From What I understand, as long as the hairs are white they will take the pollen. I'll wait a few weeks. Appears to be a big window for pollinating.
How's it goin'? Glad to hear the Berry Ryder reversal worked well for you. That should be a nice cross (BKR).
If you like the cross, you should try to keep it going through the generations, up to f7, so it'll be stabilized as a new strain. The babies should all be pretty uniform in phenotypes for the f1 generation, but if you keep it going, you might get some interesting pheno's showing up in the f2 offspring. That would be a fun, slightly more "advanced" breeding project to work on, and you'd end up with a strain that's customized to your liking... and a lot of good bud along the way too, haha.


"Just producing my own seeds to get a good supply for myself and to share with others. I will never buy a cannabis seed again. "

It's a cool feeling being able to produce your own seeds, and then watch them turn into full grown plants, and possibly make seeds of their own. It really lets you get the full experience of every aspect of a plant's life cycle. The fact that it's also so much cheaper than buying them, just makes it that much better.
 

HighLowGrow

Well-Known Member
This f2 gen. we'll see if i get any "freaks" yet. Did a few odd ball AKR's but all BR's been exactly same so far (with same growing conditions). Thanks for useful info though.
I'm getting the same results. BR's are very stable so far. The AKRs seem to have a "freako" every once in a while. I have had nothing but fems.

I can deal with the occasional odd ball. I made it. If I don't like it, I can junk it. I have never tossed one though. It will always turn into something useful.

IMG_4504.JPG
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
This f2 gen. we'll see if i get any "freaks" yet. Did a few odd ball AKR's but all BR's been exactly same so far (with same growing conditions). Thanks for useful info though.
No problem, man.

Here's a little more basic breeding info to get you on track in the right direction:

Given that a dominant gene is "A" and a recessive one is "a", the way it works, is that in the f1 generation, all of the dominant genes from each parent are expressed in the babies, and any recessive traits, get hidden as "Aa", where the dominant trait shows, but the plant is still a carrier of the recessive gene. When you breed two "Aa" f1's together, or self a single f1 plant, you can get those recessive genes recombining as "aa" for some of the offspring, which will mean the recessive gene is the one that is expressed. By then breeding those "aa" plants together, or selfing them, you will get offspring with the same "aa" recessive genes expressed. The other options for the genes recombining, are more "Aa" offspring, and some "AA" offspring, which should both show the same phenotype, despite only one being a carrier of the recessive trait.

Say you want a purple version of a plant with green buds. Since green is usually dominant over purple in these plants, G will be green, and g will be purple.

GG(green parent) x gg(purple parent)

f1: GG x gg = 100% Gg (green plant carrying recessive purple gene)

f2: Gg x Gg= 25% GG (green w/o purple gene), 50% Gg (green but carirer of purple gene), 25%gg (purple plant with no green gene)

f3: gg x gg = 100% gg (all purple offspring)

As you go down the line of generations, while only utilizing the obve technique of breeding the offspring with other offspring from the same generation as themselves, the rest of the plant's genetic traits stabilize more and more. Once you reach f7, there should almost no noticeable variety in the offspring, and the result is a new stable strain, instead of just an unstable cross.

Since there is no regulation for naming cannabis "strains", I believe that most of what is out there, aside from the small percent of strains that breeders took a lot of time stabilizing, are nothing more than unstable crosses between f1 and f4.
That's not to say that crosses are bad, because since all the dominant genes are expressed in the f1 generation, they tend to have what is called "hybrid vigor", and grow noticeably more vigorously than other plants. With further crossings, thishybrid vigor is lost, with the tradeoff of more genetic stability amongst the offspring.


I'm getting the same results. BR's are very stable so far. The AKRs seem to have a "freako" every once in a while. I have had nothing but fems.

I can deal with the occasional odd ball. I made it. If I don't like it, I can junk it. I have never tossed one though. It will always turn into something useful.
As long as the "oddball" isn't a hermie, I don't see it being much a problem either. Unless it is a good "oddball", I wouldn't use it as a parent for more breeding, but there is no need to get hasty and trash it. You never know what a certain phenotype is like until you try it.
 

diystealthgrower

Well-Known Member
No problem, man.

Here's a little more basic breeding info to get you on track in the right direction:

Given that a dominant gene is "A" and a recessive one is "a", the way it works, is that in the f1 generation, all of the dominant genes from each parent are expressed in the babies, and any recessive traits, get hidden as "Aa", where the dominant trait shows, but the plant is still a carrier of the recessive gene. When you breed two "Aa" f1's together, or self a single f1 plant, you can get those recessive genes recombining as "aa" for some of the offspring, which will mean the recessive gene is the one that is expressed. By then breeding those "aa" plants together, or selfing them, you will get offspring with the same "aa" recessive genes expressed. The other options for the genes recombining, are more "Aa" offspring, and some "AA" offspring, which should both show the same phenotype, despite only one being a carrier of the recessive trait.

Say you want a purple version of a plant with green buds. Since green is usually dominant over purple in these plants, G will be green, and g will be purple.

GG(green parent) x gg(purple parent)

f1: GG x gg = 100% Gg (green plant carrying recessive purple gene)

f2: Gg x Gg= 25% GG (green w/o purple gene), 50% Gg (green but carirer of purple gene), 25%gg (purple plant with no green gene)

f3: gg x gg = 100% gg (all purple offspring)

As you go down the line of generations, while only utilizing the obve technique of breeding the offspring with other offspring from the same generation as themselves, the rest of the plant's genetic traits stabilize more and more. Once you reach f7, there should almost no noticeable variety in the offspring, and the result is a new stable strain, instead of just an unstable cross.

Since there is no regulation for naming cannabis "strains", I believe that most of what is out there, aside from the small percent of strains that breeders took a lot of time stabilizing, are nothing more than unstable crosses between f1 and f4.
That's not to say that crosses are bad, because since all the dominant genes are expressed in the f1 generation, they tend to have what is called "hybrid vigor", and grow noticeably more vigorously than other plants. With further crossings, thishybrid vigor is lost, with the tradeoff of more genetic stability amongst the offspring.



As long as the "oddball" isn't a hermie, I don't see it being much a problem either. Unless it is a good "oddball", I wouldn't use it as a parent for more breeding, but there is no need to get hasty and trash it. You never know what a certain phenotype is like until you try it.
Hazey, again great info. I had to read it several times to make sense of it all. I'm def newbie seed grower. I mostly understand the deal. So at f2 your really not sure what the beans/seeds will be correct? could be 25% this, 50% that or 25% the other. Not knowing exactly which traits are carried over.
 

diystealthgrower

Well-Known Member
how do you know which traits that you want from each plant will carry over to batch of seeds? or said another way, how do you know which traits from each strain are dominant or recessive?
 

diystealthgrower

Well-Known Member
how do you know which traits that you want from each plant will carry over to batch of seeds? or said another way, how do you know which traits from each strain are dominant or recessive?
ie. like the flavor and vigorous growth out of auto fem berry ryder but want to incorporate the sweet kushy taste and smell of the AKR?
 

HighLowGrow

Well-Known Member
AKR.....................wtf.....oh well shit happens. Just sharing with others that might happen to have seeds from this batch. I have only made one batch of AKRs btw.

I have 4 AKRs. Three are growing normal and 1 oddball. Today I was choosing the recipient of the Berry pollen and noticed this on one of the 3 AKRs. I'll leave it on until tomorrow just for the hell of it.

AKR wtf.png
 

tekdc911

Well-Known Member
AKR.....................wtf.....oh well shit happens. Just sharing with others that might happen to have seeds from this batch. I have only made one batch of AKRs btw.

I have 4 AKRs. Three are growing normal and 1 oddball. Today I was choosing the recipient of the Berry pollen and noticed this on one of the 3 AKRs. I'll leave it on until tomorrow just for the hell of it.

View attachment 3410299
i had one that showed nanners at around the 5th node from the bottom out of the batch i got from you way back when .... i just knocked them off plant finished fine ...... no other issues i assumed it was from stress since i had just moved and was just getting my closet dialed in
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
Hazey, again great info. I had to read it several times to make sense of it all. I'm def newbie seed grower. I mostly understand the deal. So at f2 your really not sure what the beans/seeds will be correct? could be 25% this, 50% that or 25% the other. Not knowing exactly which traits are carried over.
Thanks man. Glad to help.

ie. like the flavor and vigorous growth out of auto fem berry ryder but want to incorporate the sweet kushy taste and smell of the AKR?
I'm not sure if you can tell which traits will be dominant/recessive, without crossing and observing the results (the ones that show up in the f1 generation are the dominant ones), but what might help a bit, is to look at most other plants and see which trait is most commonly shown. That trait is probably a dominant one, like brown eyes in humans vs blue eyes. Brown is more commonly expressed, and it is the dominant trait for eye color.

AKR.....................wtf.....oh well shit happens. Just sharing with others that might happen to have seeds from this batch. I have only made one batch of AKRs btw.

I have 4 AKRs. Three are growing normal and 1 oddball. Today I was choosing the recipient of the Berry pollen and noticed this on one of the 3 AKRs. I'll leave it on until tomorrow just for the hell of it.

View attachment 3410299
Damn... Is that from the original batch, or from the seeds you created? As good as AKR bud is, it seems prone to going "hermie", which is a shame, especially for breeding purposes. I wonder if some selective breeding for several more generations, possibly with something that's more resistant to going hermie under stress added into the mix, would help improve the strain.

Does anyone know of anything with similar smell/taste, or effect as akr?
 

HighLowGrow

Well-Known Member
Damn... Is that from the original batch, or from the seeds you created? As good as AKR bud is, it seems prone to going "hermie", which is a shame, especially for breeding purposes.

All the AKR seeds I have are from the seeds I created. The "original batch" which were fem AKR x 5 from the Attitude are long gone. It was one of these seeds that I hit with TM to create the seeds I have now.

I know of a few other instances where this has happened to this batch of seeds. First for me though (I think) maybe second. I have grown a lot of AKRs.

Everything I grow is for me or shared with others. If I can rub off the initial balls in one spot and be done with it, I'm ok with that.

NOW - For more in depth breeding purposes, I would pay more attention and do a great deal more research.

If I knew these may have had the tendency to hermie, I would have at least warned before shipping. :grin:

From now on seeds will be shipped with the following warning:

All seeds contained within are for personal use only. Not for breeding purposes. LOL


 

diystealthgrower

Well-Known Member
Man you guys are awesome. I am learning so much shit.
Well soon I'll have a new round of fresh beans from the seed banks to experiment with. I am going to self these new strains so I'll have lots of kernels for all ya'll within the next few months!!!!!
 

diystealthgrower

Well-Known Member
Man you guys are awesome. I am learning so much shit.
Well soon I'll have a new round of fresh beans from the seed banks to experiment with. I am going to self these new strains so I'll have lots of kernels for all ya'll within the next few months!!!!!
Living in OHIGHO I don't have access to much except what goes on around here. been there done that with a lot of strains. Looking for the superbomb!!
 

HighLowGrow

Well-Known Member
@diystealthgrower - About the edibles. I'll let you know what I do with this "goop" after I decarb it. I needed to buy a few things apparently since this marijuana shit is a gateway. Damn Marijuana :cuss: Damn you.

41vXXx2WhKL__SX90_.jpg 41HUmMFV1RL__SY90_.jpg

Tek mentioned Caramel squares. Seems pretty simple.

I also like the honey sticks. Only for the kinda cool factor sealed in the straw.
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
Damn... Is that from the original batch, or from the seeds you created? As good as AKR bud is, it seems prone to going "hermie", which is a shame, especially for breeding purposes.

All the AKR seeds I have are from the seeds I created. The "original batch" which were fem AKR x 5 from the Attitude are long gone. It was one of these seeds that I hit with TM to create the seeds I have now.

I know of a few other instances where this has happened to this batch of seeds. First for me though (I think) maybe second. I have grown a lot of AKRs.

Everything I grow is for me or shared with others. If I can rub off the initial balls in one spot and be done with it, I'm ok with that.

NOW - For more in depth breeding purposes, I would pay more attention and do a great deal more research.

If I knew these may have had the tendency to hermie, I would have at least warned before shipping. :grin:

From now on seeds will be shipped with the following warning:

All seeds contained within are for personal use only. Not for breeding purposes. LOL
I agree that for personal use, a few pollen sacs here and there isn't such a huge deal, so long as you are vigilant, and don't let them pollinate your entire crop. It's just kind of annoying that AKR genetics have to have that problem, because otherwise, it is a top notch strain that excels in almost every aspect. It would be a great parent for a cross to createa new strain, but the potential of passing on the hermie gene is a bit scary for that. If the only thing causing it to hermie is a low stress tolerance, then it could probably be bred long enough to fix that by increasing the stress tolerance. If it is some other kind of trigger, or for some reason very difficult to breed out, it would suck to do a bunch of work with an AKR as an ancestor for a strain, and then far into it, realize your line is as prone to hermie'ing as the original AKR's..

Man you guys are awesome. I am learning so much shit.
Well soon I'll have a new round of fresh beans from the seed banks to experiment with. I am going to self these new strains so I'll have lots of kernels for all ya'll within the next few months!!!!!
Thanks man. There's always something to be learned on these forums. If you think you know everything, give it some time, and you'll run into something that will change your mind.

Two recommendations I can make for you, so your breeding projects will get off to a better start, are:
1. Check out this topic I made so you learn all you need to know about CS to get started making your own.
2. Start with one plant that you are trying to reverse. If you get a bunch of them going at the same time, you risk pollen spreading around from all of them, and not being able to tell which parents made each seed. ALso, start that plant 2-3 weeks before you plant any females you want to pollinate with it's pollen, because you want to give the female a full flowering cycle after being pollinated so the seeds can mature. If you pollinate it too late, they may not have enough time. This way, you can have a fully reversed male, and some collected pollen, by the time your female starts full force flowering. *of course if you are just selfing them, you won't have to time the two plant's. You just have to be careful where you spray, so only a few branches grow pollen sacs, and the others have enough healthy pistils and calyxes to produce seeds.
 

HighLowGrow

Well-Known Member
so only a few branches grow pollen sacs, and the others have enough healthy pistils and calyxes to produce seeds.

I'll repeat that. DO NOT SPRAY THE WHOLE PLANT. I friggin did this twice now. With the first AKR and this current Berry. A shit load of pollen, just not a shit load of pistils to receive it.

I can currently feel the seeds in there, just not a ton of them. Oh well. My goal is to pollinate an AKR with the Berry pollen which will happen as soon as the AKR pistils start exploding.

You truly only need to do 1 or 2 lower branches.
 
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