i have an indoor pond that I plan to convert to a large dwc and use it to flower my plants. Not to knock on anyones designs but this way seems a lot simplier than building a RDWC. Im worried im over looking something huge that makes this idea no good. Can anyone see a flaw with this?
Large DWCvs RDWC
- Thread starter Kaniff
- Start date
mmjmon
Well-Known Member
Will you be covering the roots? With what? How many plants and how big is the pond?
I'd love to watch the process if you do it.
k_elliott99
Well-Known Member
If it was a legit pond id be worried with bacteria or something forming in the water possibly. Just do it the hard way and take the lids off every day and add water lol it sucks
Thanks for the input. the dimensions will be 4'x5'x2'. 4'x4' growing area with 1' x4' area open for maintenece and misc work. It will be a wood frame with a pvc liner and a drain. The top will be covered by a fiberglass sheet with 8 sites cut into it. I said indoor pond because its basically the same design as my indoor pond but i will be building this new so no bacteria will be present...having said that I was planning on experimenting with pond water. I'll post pics of the progress....please feel free to point out obvious flaws in this plan...so far the only thing i can tbink of is that it will use a lot of water and nutes...
k_elliott99
Well-Known Member
Oh ok yeah im excited to see how it comes together please updste with progress pics.
DWC enthusiast
Active Member
i have a modular dwc that required zero diy fabrication. It's just the buckets from an ebb&flow system hooked up to the control box (all buckets are linked together with T fittings and 1" rubber tubing, up to 10 outlets on the control box i only use 4 for 14 buckets) just run an air stone to each bucket (duh). No water pumps, no timers needed. And beware of root disease with any system where the plants share the same reservoir as it will spread fast. Take preventive measures to insure that doesn't happen (knock on wood)
DWC enthusiast
Active Member
You can see how its set up from this picture. all i had to do was cut the hose to the length i wanted my buckets spaced at.
this is a picture of transplant day btw here they are 35 days later
this is a picture of transplant day btw here they are 35 days later
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ttystikk
Well-Known Member
When I first started doing research to decide which kind of system I was going to use, I was attracted to the simplicity of DWC- but no one could fully explain why some buckets got the snot while others didn't.
I eventually built an RDWC system- and got the snot. I tried everything to get rid of it and nothing worked until I got a chiller and brought the nutrient water temps down below 68f. After that, I never had a problem with root rot again, EVEN WHEN I INTENTIONALLY ADDED WATER I KNEW HAD PATHOGENS IN IT.
Now I have multiple big tubs connected to a control bucket with a cooling coil and the recirc pump in it. The recirc pump feeds water into a manifold which then distributes the water to elbow fittings in the lids of all these tubs, where the water falls down to the waterline... waterfall style. This approach eliminated the air pump, lines and stones. It's rock solid reliable, no special snot killing sauce required- ever. I don't even do more than a cursory rinse between runs.
Therefore, based on extensive personal experience, I'd say that a big pond would work fine- as long as the water is kept in the dark, adequately oxygenated and that it's kept cool, below 68f, and below 65f would be even better. And yes, covering the roots to keep them in darkness is necessary and desirable.
As far as nutes go, water bottle brands will clean your wallet right out. Jacks is the standard recommendation, but any dry chemical nutrient system should do fine. I use Hydrogardens.com.
Good luck and let us know how things work out for you!
I eventually built an RDWC system- and got the snot. I tried everything to get rid of it and nothing worked until I got a chiller and brought the nutrient water temps down below 68f. After that, I never had a problem with root rot again, EVEN WHEN I INTENTIONALLY ADDED WATER I KNEW HAD PATHOGENS IN IT.
Now I have multiple big tubs connected to a control bucket with a cooling coil and the recirc pump in it. The recirc pump feeds water into a manifold which then distributes the water to elbow fittings in the lids of all these tubs, where the water falls down to the waterline... waterfall style. This approach eliminated the air pump, lines and stones. It's rock solid reliable, no special snot killing sauce required- ever. I don't even do more than a cursory rinse between runs.
Therefore, based on extensive personal experience, I'd say that a big pond would work fine- as long as the water is kept in the dark, adequately oxygenated and that it's kept cool, below 68f, and below 65f would be even better. And yes, covering the roots to keep them in darkness is necessary and desirable.
As far as nutes go, water bottle brands will clean your wallet right out. Jacks is the standard recommendation, but any dry chemical nutrient system should do fine. I use Hydrogardens.com.
Good luck and let us know how things work out for you!
DWC enthusiast
Active Member
Here's a picture of the system with no plants in it (had to move them all into my little bathroom to bug bomb lol)
meanwhile...
Deepwater600ppm
Member
An exciting and risky idea. I like it.
To second @ttystikk, cool water, no light and a crazy amount of air being pumped in. I like the no airpump/stone idea for this as I feel to get the water agitated properly in such a large single tank will be difficult. However a submerged pump with multiple small hoses hitting the the surface with force would be cheaper, cooler and more effective.
I've been thinking a lot about the Hanging Gardens of Babylon... shit has to be somewhere between ebb, nft and dwc. I think a waterfall trickle was probably how they got oxygen in the water. Food for thought.
To second @ttystikk, cool water, no light and a crazy amount of air being pumped in. I like the no airpump/stone idea for this as I feel to get the water agitated properly in such a large single tank will be difficult. However a submerged pump with multiple small hoses hitting the the surface with force would be cheaper, cooler and more effective.
I've been thinking a lot about the Hanging Gardens of Babylon... shit has to be somewhere between ebb, nft and dwc. I think a waterfall trickle was probably how they got oxygen in the water. Food for thought.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Waterfalls oxygenate better than stones, fish keepers and reefers will tell you. They also churn the surface to reduce scum formation, a key feature air bubbles don't do well.
I'm eliminating the entire air system from the list of stuff needed for a good grow, which reduces cost and complexity. The real reason Current Culture UC systems need them is because SOMETHING has to create splash above the waterline in the buckets! Otherwise the plants get no water at all until they touch the waterline. Waterfalls solve that problem. They distribute water better and more evenly as well, leafing to less difference in waterlines between tubs.
You're not adding any of the heat from an AIR COMPRESSOR into the water; you're using the same circulation pump- maybe one size larger- as you used to circulate water around the system before, only now it does the added job of oxygenation.
The pump doesn't add much heat to the water because water is basically incompressible. Therefore, pumping it doesn't heat it like happens with a gas.
Voila! Simpler. Cheaper. Cooler. QUIETER! Better.
I'm eliminating the entire air system from the list of stuff needed for a good grow, which reduces cost and complexity. The real reason Current Culture UC systems need them is because SOMETHING has to create splash above the waterline in the buckets! Otherwise the plants get no water at all until they touch the waterline. Waterfalls solve that problem. They distribute water better and more evenly as well, leafing to less difference in waterlines between tubs.
You're not adding any of the heat from an AIR COMPRESSOR into the water; you're using the same circulation pump- maybe one size larger- as you used to circulate water around the system before, only now it does the added job of oxygenation.
The pump doesn't add much heat to the water because water is basically incompressible. Therefore, pumping it doesn't heat it like happens with a gas.
Voila! Simpler. Cheaper. Cooler. QUIETER! Better.
Deepwater600ppm
Member
Well explained @ttystikk, I look forward to being able to show you my lids off.
I'm halfway there towards not needing air pump, I think there will be a method of using the return pump pressure to create the same micro bubbles in the aero-gap through a mixed combo of waterfalls, high pressure nozzles and maybe a line under the water surface pointing up? almost like a submerged fountain/reverse waterfall.
I'm halfway there towards not needing air pump, I think there will be a method of using the return pump pressure to create the same micro bubbles in the aero-gap through a mixed combo of waterfalls, high pressure nozzles and maybe a line under the water surface pointing up? almost like a submerged fountain/reverse waterfall.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
The reverse fountain is called flooming (fluming?) and it also creates aeration.
But here's the thing; it's easy to aerate water to its saturation point, the point beyond which additional oxygenation won't help. The only way to add more dissolved oxygen to water at that point is to make the water itself colder. This is why colder is better, because water can hold more oxygen in solution at cold temperatures than warm ones.
Deepwater600ppm
Member
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Yes, with caveats; if you're having problems, lower your temps. I've found that once the system is running well, it only needs to get down to 68f for a few hours a day to maintain good health. The rest of the time it can creep into the seventies, which helps them grow.
Deepwater600ppm
Member
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Do you actively chill your water now? If not, it won't change much.
Deepwater600ppm
Member
@ttystikk No current chiller. 69f peak temp. I think after 11.5 hours lights out it must be down to 65f... I'll let you know tomorrow.
I posted a current pic in the 'fundamentals' thread, you can see the big horizontal fan which hits the parabolic? This chucks cold air in a clockwise cycle over the top and around the tubs which I think is how I stay cool. I can touch the 600w hps quite comfortably.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like a chiller. I'm going to try more heat-sinking, then computer fan install first though. To be honest, I'm ok with 69 but am a sucker for optimization.
Fun to talk about all this with people who understand.
I posted a current pic in the 'fundamentals' thread, you can see the big horizontal fan which hits the parabolic? This chucks cold air in a clockwise cycle over the top and around the tubs which I think is how I stay cool. I can touch the 600w hps quite comfortably.
Don't get me wrong, I'd like a chiller. I'm going to try more heat-sinking, then computer fan install first though. To be honest, I'm ok with 69 but am a sucker for optimization.
Fun to talk about all this with people who understand.
Vumar
Well-Known Member
How do you connect your waterfall lines from your water pump to your netpot/whatever you use? straight into the side of the bucket? Ontop of the netpot? I am assuming you use a bulkhead yes? Just wondering if your waterfall trickles down the hydroton like a waterfarm does via the ring at the top?