The far red thread

[stardustsailor]

I was afraid that the large capacitor C1 and resistor R1 I'm using would cause issues (like the timer never finishing and being stuck from leakage current in C1 being greater than R1 value), but in practice the delay has been "a few minutes" and never got stuck.

I had a design based on decade counters, binary counters, and some combinational logic. The simulations showed it to work as expected, but I never implemented it like I did this one. I have all the chips needed to, but it seemed to be more complicated than it needed to be. This new one is also a bit overcomplicated, and requires that big capacitor.

I just realized how silly it sounds that I was opening a box when the main lights were out in the first place. The reason i was doing that is because the main timer wasn't programmed right (set it last night with a new digital timer)... The main light was supposed to be on when I checked, but wasn't. That's why I was opening a box with the lights off in the first place. Sorry, that was very unclear. I guess in normal operation, a user would not open a dark box in the first place.

Anyway ,here's another timing option for the previous " block " schematic ...
Yes,kinda complicated but not so ,at it seems to be ...
The pcb needed is very small ,in case of etched pcb and 1206 SMD caps & resistors are used ...

First of all it needs an input timing signal from a LM 555 timer circuit at ASTABLE mode ...
A continuous-square -timing signal ...
For the described circuit ,of 100 times (10x10 ) smaller period than the desired delay FR LEDs ON time .
So say ,you want the FR light to switch ON after the COBs are OFF and stay ON for 20 min ...
Then you will need to program the 555 astable signal to be of 12 seconds period ..
(12 sec period x 100 = 1200 sec ...1200 sec / 60 sec/min = 20 min ) ...

The circuit ...



Red: +12VDC
Purple : timing signal
black : COM GND
green : self-locking x100 ( x81 actually ) output


Intro : When the COB driver(s) will switch OFF relay #1 (NC ) will trip back to NC position .
So via AC power the +12 VDC power source will power the 555 astable timer (not shown )
and the two 4017 ICs....

How it works :

The timing signal enters the CLK input of the first (left ) 4017 counter .
The 22K resistor is connected prior to CLK input to ensure that ,when there's no HIGH signal the
CLK input is lowered to GND and not floating (noise contamination =false triggering ).

The electrolytic cap and the two 100 n ceramics-at 12 VDC powering line - are for noise bypassing.

(More than just one cap used here ,
in order to decrease the total ESR ,
while increasing the total capacitance ,
thus increasing the overall noise filtering - )


Notice that both the RESET & CLOCK INHIBIT inputs of the first counter , are brought down to GND .

Then each output ( 0 to 9 ) can be connected to 10 corresponding DIP switches .
The other end of their single pole ,is connected parallel ( 22K res here for non-floating signal ) and
be the incoming timing signal to the second 4017 ....
The second 4017 differs from first as the CLOCK INHIBIT input is connected to the output of the second
x10 DIP switch array ...And a transistor is connected ther also ...

What happens actually :
Say ,that you flip the 10th switch of the first DIP switch array and
also the 10th switch of the second DIP switch array... ( 10x10 =100 ,9x9 =81 actually as output #0 is high since 4017 is powered up .. )

The 555 timer outputs a 12 sec period signal ...

first 4017 :
it will take 9x12 secs until output #9 ,gets to be HIGH ....

second 4017 :
output #0 is ON from power ON ...
Output #1 goes high after 9x12=108 secs ....

first 4017 :
it will take 9x12 secs until output #9 ,gets to be HIGH ..Again ....

second 4017 :
Output #2 goes high after 9x12=108 secs ....
that is total time of 108+108 sec= 216 secs ...

repeat .....
first 4017 :
it will take 9x12 secs until output #9 ,gets to be HIGH ..

second 4017 :
Output #3 goes high after 9x12=108 secs ....
that is total time of 108+108=108 sec= 324 secs ...

and so on until #9 -of the second 4017 IC (right at pic ) - goes high ...
( 9x9x12 sec = 972 sec = 16,2 min ...
Adjust the 555 timer signal, to reach the desired 20 min period )


Then-after 16,2 min- two things happen :

1 ) CLOCK INHIBIT input goes HIGH ,and second timer "locks" its #9 output to HIGH state ...
No matter what happens to the rest of the DC circuit ...

2 ) Transistor conducts and the NC relay#2 ,trips to open state ..
FR leds switch OFF ...And stay OFF....
Uuntil DC timing circuit is switched OFF

( COB driver ON = NC relay #1 opens =DC timing circuit & FR LED driver have no AC power ,thus no matter if RELAY #2 is closed ,the FR LED driver is OFF .)

and powered again / once more

( COB driver OFF =- NC relay #1 closes =DC timing circuit & FR LED driver power up ,( FR LED driver will remain ON until NC relay #2 opens .Then it will switch OFF .)-

....No matter what ....

( Diode is there to protect the transistor from inductive current spikes from the relay coil.
Returns spikes to coil .. called "freewheeling diode or flyback diode " )

Combining the -adjastable via pot - 555 time signal period and different switch position combinations between the two DIP switch arrays ,period of FR leds operation can be quite precisely adjusted / preset ,while 555 operation is kept pretty stable and accurate-for long service time .

-Using three 4017 ICs and three x10 DIP switch arrays likewise ,
then you can have a max period of "FR ON " = 555 timer signal period x 729 ( 9x9x9 ).
or ... whatever ...
i.e. 12 sec x 9 x 4 x 7 = 3024 sec = ~ 50 min ..
or
i.e. 500 ms x 9 x 9 x 9 = 364,5 sec = ~ 6 min ...

Fully analog circuit ,fully programmable ,cheap and service -friendly ..
No MCU to ....fuck up ..ever ...
( microcontrollers have their own "blue screen of death " moments at some cases ...
And not so rarely ...)

Cheers


(EDIT: updated )

 

[medicinehuman]

I'll get my ancient Latin dictionary out and try to decipher that SD.

 

[stardustsailor]

I'll get my ancient Latin dictionary out and try to decipher that SD.

Shoot any question you have ,- if you like so of course ( hope Churchy allows for some "noise" ) -
and I 'll try to decipher things , for ya !


Cheers.

 

[churchhaze]

Shoot any question you have ,- if you like so of course ( hope Churchy allows for some "noise" ) -
and I 'll try to decipher things , for ya !


Cheers.

Hey, it's not my thread! I was just posting something I was working on.

 

[stardustsailor]

Hey, it's not my thread! I was just posting something I was working on.

Oooops...

Anyway ..
The new block diagram ....

( the schematic posted previously ,is just the "x81 dual 4017 mult & lock " block ,
along with NC relay #2 )



it should work just fine ...
And fully adjustable regarding time period of FR ON ...


When wall timer powers on the COB LED driver & the Fan PSU ,
the realy #1 cuts off the power to the whole "FR system "

When wall timer powers OFF the COB LED driver & the Fan PSU ,
the realy #1 powers ON to the whole "FR system" .

555 astable produces the time signal , the dual 4017 block multiplies the period and locks
the Relay #2 at open state after the pre-set time period has elapsed .
Then FR leds switch OFF and remain OFF ,until wall timer powers ON & OFF the COB driver &
Fan PSU ( for Active COB cooling or grow space fan(s) _) ...

Seems complicated but ain't really ...
And it takes very little space actually ....

( Encased :
A small box having both the relays inside ,a 12 vdc PSU ,
the 555 timer and the 4017 multiplier & locking circuit .
Outside it has a powering Ac cable ( to mains #2 ) ,
a 12 VDC input plug ( signal from Fan PSU ) and finally an AC socket -case style- for the FR LED driver to connect and be AC powered from there ...
A small " FR controller box".....
Analog-cheap-serviceable -accurate -"crashproof "-fully programmable/adjustable ...

Yeah,baby ... ....)

Cheers.

 

[churchhaze]

555 astable produces the time signal , the dual 4017 block multiplies the period and locks
the Relay #2 at open state after the pre-set time period has elapsed .
Then FR leds switch OFF and remain OFF ,until wall timer powers ON & OFF the COB driver &
Fan PSU ( for Active COB cooling or grow space fan(s) _) ...

This was the basic concept of my last design. A 4-bit binary counter was incremented by a 555 timer in astable mode, and the clock enable was disabled when it got to the last count. I think the light turning on reset the counter back to 0.

FYI, working with cmos counters is mostly digital. The only analog part of your design is the RC based timing of the 555 timer in astable mode. All the switches and ON/OFF, and discrete counting makes it digital. With the 555 timer RC timing components, you can use a multimeter to see the voltage is across the capacitor slowly rise for debugging purposes. (for my slow ass timing at least).

I think that adding dipswitches alone would take up more space than the large capacitor I have for the large delay, and probably cost more too. It would be great if the goal was to build a device to test different length pulses of far-red, but I figure most people don't care precisely how long the pulse length is. This is why I didn't build my counter based design. I felt like I could get rid of the counters and have it work exactly the same... the main disadvantage being the big capacitor.

Edit: Here is the thread with that design.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/digital-system-for-730nm-trigger.848173/

The schematics show 74HCTxx chips, but that's just the ltspice library I found, not what I would use. I have 74HCxx. I have a simulation showing how the timing works.

 

[mc130p]

Could you just get a few smaller capacitors and hook them up in parallel?

 

[stardustsailor]

This was the basic concept of my last design. A 4-bit binary counter was incremented by a 555 timer in astable mode, and the clock enable was disabled when it got to the last count. I think the light turning on reset the counter back to 0.

FYI, working with cmos counters is mostly digital. The only analog part of your design is the RC based timing of the 555 timer in astable mode. All the switches and ON/OFF, and discrete counting makes it digital. With the 555 timer RC timing components, you can use a multimeter to see the voltage is across the capacitor slowly rise for debugging purposes. (for my slow ass timing at least).

I think that adding dipswitches alone would take up more space than the large capacitor I have for the large delay, and probably cost more too. It would be great if the goal was to build a device to test different length pulses of far-red, but I figure most people don't care precisely how long the pulse length is. This is why I didn't build my counter based design. I felt like I could get rid of the counters and have it work exactly the same... the main disadvantage being the big capacitor.

Edit: Here is the thread with that design.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/digital-system-for-730nm-trigger.848173/

The schematics show 74HCTxx chips, but that's just the ltspice library I found, not what I would use. I have 74HCxx. I have a simulation showing how the timing works.

Yes...Electrolytics are very unstable caps ..
sensitive even to vibrations ...
Their capacitance is not stable ,directly affected by temperature
and above all even if they do not blow ,like in case of being used in low current timing sub-circuits ,
they fuckin' dry up by time ...
Useless pieces of shit ...
Still,thats the only affordable and simple way to obtain large capacitance ...

Now ...Using them in timing circuits ...
(I do same also ,do not forget that ..)
It's not good ...
not stable and limited service life ...
(not much ...)
Especially in hot environments ..


From the other hand ..
(Com'on now ..DIP switches are actually tiny ,but yes longer than an electrolytic cap ...
One vcan have just two dip swithes also ,for example ..Output # 4 or #5 and output #9 ,only ...
Still programmable ....
Now ,about stability and service life ....
The 4017 timer being A fuckin'; CMOS device is sensitive as it can be ...
Sensitive to any kind of noise or interference ...
But ....If grounded correctly ,get their power line filtered and non floating inputs are present ,they work fine ...
Having them also not soldered directly to PCB ,but on a DIP base ,makes replacement a a matter of seconds ...

Using counters offers two basic advantages :

1 ) the self locking feature when controlling a relay / transistor

2 ) The multiplication of a short -duration signal ..
Like the one coming from a STABLE 555 timer ..
Stable ..Thus no electrolytic is used but others ..
Even "humbe" ceramics offer way more stability,service life and precision than electrolytics in such cases...


Now ,of course ,it has it's own cons ...
Still,it was just a raw personal idea ,of how I would have dealt with it ,in case I was using FR leds..

FR pulsing ?

Pulsing the FR leds can be done only with a PWM dimming LED driver ....
Or via 10 VDC signals ...
If one tries to apply pulsing ,by switching ON-OFF the AC side of the led driver ,
the driver will be damaged eventually
( inrush current + hot NTC thermistor- thus low resistance = disaster ) .

Cheers.

 

[stardustsailor]

Could you just get a few smaller capacitors and hook them up in parallel?

1x 47 uF electrolytic ( the highest value of capacitance ,
that can be used with 555 timer for timing
and still obtain a relatively good stability and long signal period )

=

.....
470 x 100nF ,
a pretty high capacitance _for those kinds => Ceramic,MKT-MKP ,Tantalum,etc

 

[Rahz]

So if there were emitters available in the 680-700nm range would there be more discussion about the Emerson effect? I started this thread thinking both would get attention. Course the lack of viable emitters puts a damper on that, but I'm curious if there are other reasons the Emerson effect isn't attractive.

It needs a lot of far red in ratio to red, 8:10 I believe. I'm not sure what the total percentage of far red that might work out to across a full spectrum, but much less than 8:10 I'm guessing. It would still be a lot, and would lower efficiency but if the effect worked might that not make up for the lowered efficiency?

Also, I look at spectrum availability charts and they seem to come in all colors... except 680-700. There's a big gap there. My guess is that 730nm has an existing commercial use while 680-700 does not.

 

[stardustsailor]

So if there were emitters available in the 680-700nm range would there be more discussion about the Emerson effect? I started this thread thinking both would get attention. Course the lack of viable emitters puts a damper on that, but I'm curious if there are other reasons the Emerson effect isn't attractive.

It needs a lot of far red in ratio to red, 8:10 I believe. I'm not sure what the total percentage of far red that might work out to across a full spectrum, but much less than 8:10 I'm guessing. It would still be a lot, and would lower efficiency but if the effect worked might that not make up for the lowered efficiency?

Also, I look at spectrum availability charts and they seem to come in all colors... except 680-700. There's a big gap there. My guess is that 730nm has an existing commercial use while 680-700 does not.

http://ag.arizona.edu/ceac/sites/ag.arizona.edu.ceac/files/Supplemental Lighting Lecture.pdf

http://leds.hrt.msu.edu/assets/Uploads/Univ.-of-Arizona-Greensys-FR-EOD-presentation-2011.pdf

http://www.osa-opto.com/tl_files/osa_opto/inhalte/files/prospekte/16-seiter-2012.pdf

http://www.kyosemi.co.jp/resources/en/products/sensor/multi_wavelength_led/ked691ds3/ked691ds3_spec.pdf

 

[AquariusPanta]

I was looking at the charts for the new Vero 18's... ~10% intensity at 730nm... ~25% intensity at 680... not exactly sure what this translates to other than more red.

 

[stardustsailor]

Now ....
About all these about FR at the end ...

" Plants exposed to far-red for 5 minutes at the end of each day in controlled environments, and those grown in close-spaced rows in the field, developed longer internodes and fewer branches ."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1054258/

but ....

." From these three interpretations, our analysis favours the first one, i.e., the presence in intact plant leaves of a small number of far-red chlorophylls of photosystem II. Based on analogy with the well-known far-red spectral forms in photosystem I, it is likely that some kind of strongly coupled chlorophyll dimers/aggregates are involved. The similarity of the result for sunflower and bean proves that both the extreme long-wavelength oxygen evolution and the local quantum yield maximum are general properties of the plants. "

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0005272805001192

Ehem .......

Regarding the first part ...
5-10-15 min radiation at the end of the "day " indoors ...
Yes but for what reason and when ?

If applied when vegetative growth metabolism is " dominant " ,
then "stretching " occurs ....Can be a desired treat in some cases ...

If applied when reproductive metabolism is " dominant " ("deep flowering " ),
then no stretching can occur anymore ...Other things happen ..or can happen ...
Pretty useful "things" ...


As for the second part ....
When at vegetative growth , 3%-5% * of FR during "daytime" (lights ON ) ,

(* rel .rad. power in W and not in PPF /PPFD )

seems to be pretty much ,about enough ...
Some more than that , and "trouble " onsets ...

Still ,at old plants/leafs (again at reproductive stage ....)
Seems that ...hmmm ..well ...older leaves and plants (locally and overall as-whole plant ) ,
seem to use some more FR than younger one s...

(Cannabis leaves at September (later flowering ) reflect LESS FR and transmit LESS FR .,.
So ,what is left ...? More FR is actually absorbed ...For some reason ...

Anyway ..Sorry for the electronic -digital thread de-railing ,back on to FR photons ...

 

[churchhaze]

If applied when vegetative growth metabolism is " dominant " ,
then "stretching " occurs ....Can be a desired treat in some cases ...

If applied when reproductive metabolism is " dominant " ("deep flowering " ),
then no stretching can occur anymore ...Other things happen ..or can happen ...
Pretty useful "things" ...

That's interesting because I've noticed similar results. When using 730nm at lights out, for the first 2-3 weeks it stretches like crazy, then stops abruptly. What I was not sure of is whether the initial 2 weeks of far-red at lights out also shortened the stretch period (besides just increasing the rate of stretch), so that total stretch stays about the same. I haven't done nearly enough tests to have made any real conclusions.

 

[churchhaze]

By the way, I'm almost positive now that the reason the far-red won't go out is because far-red lamp itself is bright enough to be considered lights on. It works as intended when the far-red lamp is not connected to the relay output. The far-red lights turning off triggers the timer to start again and turns the far-red lamp back on.

In order the make the photocell thing work, I'd have to either use a light filter to get rid of the far-red from the photocell, or reduce R3 pull-down to a point where "ON" brightness is too high. I'm going to have to call the photocell idea a failure. Tapping into the 5V heatsink fan supply should be fine though (despite being a bit hack). I have a central hub (5 conductor wago lever nuts) used for the 5V fan driver. Oh well. That would have been one less annoying wire to deal with. It would also use a pull-down resistor to not be floating when the fan supply is off.

 

[stardustsailor]

That's interesting because I've noticed similar results. When using 730nm at lights out, for the first 2-3 weeks it stretches like crazy, then stops abruptly. What I was not sure of is whether the initial 2 weeks of far-red at lights out also shortened the stretch period (besides just increasing the rate of stretch), so that total stretch stays about the same. I haven't done nearly enough tests to have made any real conclusions.

Now ,please try not to laugh ..
And please take it with a grain of salt ..
addito salis grano ...

Without any FR supplementation at the end of day
and with 3-5% FR present in the lights quality ( PC COB LED 3000K 80Ra )
that's about how it goes ...


More or less ...But with +/- 5 to 20% tolerance ...





Axis y is the relative metabolism rate ..
blue =vegetative metabolism
amber = reproductive (flowering,unpollinated/ seedless

Axis x is the weeks (end of each week ,i.e. 2 = 7th day of week 2 )

weeks 1 ,2,3,4 are of stable 18/6 regime ..(veg )
Weeks 5 from 13 (9 weeks flowering ) are of 12/12 regime ....
PPF is stable the whole cycle ,from start .

Now ...Pretty rough graph and values but more or less it shows the change between the two "phases" ofd athe plant ....

If more FR is applied generally( during lights ON ) and not just at the end of the "day",
at the right moment and timing ....
well...There are pretty solid indications ,that good things will happen ...
Mainly photosynthetically speaking ...

More FR ,more FR photosynthesis takes action ( late flowering-,aturing plant/ old leaves...)

More FR ,can possibly mean less Dark hours needed ,
thus extended day (more than 12 H ), can be applied ..
Increased DLI ,then generally ..
( - high yields per plant ,
- thus favoring "personal needs" grow-ops
- with small number of plants,
- with normal to slightly increased total life-cycle duration,
- and more energy consumed per grow cycle =>more than 12 lights ON ,normal to slightly increased plant life-cycle)

But IF not -any prolonged daylength is applied and regime remains 12/12 ,
then maybe reproductive period till maturing ,possibly gets decreased with the extra FR supplementation ,significally .But with possible negative impact on yields.
Gain ,is time ,at such case ...
Same DLI ,but light quality of less PPE ...

( less % of phytochrome is at Pfr state.More Pr ,due to more FR radiation = accelerated reproductive metabolism turn-over and " peaking ....")

(- moderate yields per plant ,
-better suited to "commercial " grow ops
-with large number of plants,
-but with quite decreased total life-cycle duration ...
More than 4 full grow cycles annually can be achieved,
-with less energy consumed per grow cycle =>12/12 ,less weeks of total life cycle )

i

In case of total abscence of FR ( i.e. 450 NM +660 nm LEDs ...) ,from start till end ...
The graph is not like that ....
It is way different ...
More "edgy" and "spiky "
Of course affecting ..pretty much everything ....

Including yields ...
Of .....FLOWERS .....


Still,about FR ..
one has to know when exactly desires to utilise it -at wich phase of life cycle -
for how long & how much in power ,to get the x or y desirable and positive effects ...

Fact remains ,some FR photons have to be there ,even when lights are on .
(Phy equilibrium ...)
Even at small quantity (3-5% ) ,but it makes the whole thing ,so much better ,in many ways ...
More "smooth" ...IFYKWIM ...No "sudden" changes and "extremes" ...
FR and Green ....
Plants can grow and yield without 'em ..
But not exactly "thrive" or "achieving the best pheno* expression ever ...
(best phenotype* = expression of full genetic potentional of desired treats from the genotype )
...
Anyway ....
Blah-blah--blah ....
I think I'll stop now ....

Cheers.

 

[AquariusPanta]

Now ,please try not to laugh ..
And please take it with a grain of salt ..
addito salis grano ...

Without any FR supplementation at the end of day
and with 3-5% FR present in the lights quality ( PC COB LED 3000K 80Ra )
that's about how it goes ...


More or less ...But with +/- 5 to 20% tolerance ...

View attachment 3412962



Axis y is the relative metabolism rate ..
blue =vegetative metabolism
amber = reproductive (flowering,unpollinated/ seedless

Axis x is the weeks (end of each week ,i.e. 2 = 7th day of week 2 )

weeks 1 ,2,3,4 are of stable 18/6 regime ..(veg )
Weeks 5 from 13 (9 weeks flowering ) are of 12/12 regime ....
PPF is stable the whole cycle ,from start .

Now ...Pretty rough graph and values but more or less it shows the change between the two "phases" ofd athe plant ....

If more FR is applied generally( during lights ON ) and not just at the end of the "day",
at the right moment and timing ....
well...There are pretty solid indications ,that good things will happen ...
Mainly photosynthetically speaking ...

More FR ,more FR photosynthesis takes action ( late flowering-,aturing plant/ old leaves...)

More FR ,can possibly mean less Dark hours needed ,
thus extended day (more than 12 H ), can be applied ..
Increased DLI ,then generally ..
( - high yields per plant ,
- thus favoring "personal needs" grow-ops
- with small number of plants,
- with normal to slightly increased total life-cycle duration,
- and more energy consumed per grow cycle =>more than 12 lights ON ,normal to slightly increased plant life-cycle)

But IF not -any prolonged daylength is applied and regime remains 12/12 ,
then maybe reproductive period till maturing ,possibly gets decreased with the extra FR supplementation ,significally .But with possible negative impact on yields.
Gain ,is time ,at such case ...
Same DLI ,but light quality of less PPE ...

( less % of phytochrome is at Pfr state.More Pr ,due to more FR radiation = accelerated reproductive metabolism turn-over and " peaking ....")

(- moderate yields per plant ,
-better suited to "commercial " grow ops
-with large number of plants,
-but with quite decreased total life-cycle duration ...
More than 4 full grow cycles annually can be achieved,
-with less energy consumed per grow cycle =>12/12 ,less weeks of total life cycle )

i

In case of total abscence of FR ( i.e. 450 NM +660 nm LEDs ...) ,from start till end ...
The graph is not like that ....
It is way different ...
More "edgy" and "spiky "
Of course affecting ..pretty much everything ....

Including yields ...
Of .....FLOWERS .....


Still,about FR ..
one has to know when exactly desires to utilise it -at wich phase of life cycle -
for how long & how much in power ,to get the x or y desirable and positive effects ...

Fact remains ,some FR photons have to be there ,even when lights are on .
(Phy equilibrium ...)
Even at small quantity (3-5% ) ,but it makes the whole thing ,so much better ,in many ways ...
More "smooth" ...IFYKWIM ...No "sudden" changes and "extremes" ...
FR and Green ....
Plants can grow and yield without 'em ..
But not exactly "thrive" or "achieving the best pheno* expression ever ...
(best phenotype* = expression of full genetic potentional of desired treats from the genotype )
...
Anyway ....
Blah-blah--blah ....
I think I'll stop now ....

Cheers.

What exactly does the the % mean on the graph?

 

[Positivity]

Far red has been a thorn in my side. With some extended time using it i am back at square one myself. A lot of what sds brings up holds true for me

end of cycle exposure can really shorten flower, but the impact on morphology of the plant leaves something to be desired.

13/11 can counter a lot of the stretching but any yield increase at the end wasn't really apparent to me. The extra electric in my high rate area is not really welcome, not without substantial yield improvement.

So now what? Well, my 2700k seems to behave just a little better in late flower. Different red/far red ratio? I do prefer 3000k morphology, maybe 3500k/4000k even more so possibly.

So...I'm leaning towards just a small, tiny, infusion of far red into the spectrum. At least until i manage to get some sort of controller, for a more natural end of day exposure..can't seem to get myself to rig something up

It is really fast with the trigger though..

But I am considering none, more probably just a little more all the time.

Makes sense no? Not really..

 

[alesh]

13/11 can counter a lot of the stretching but any yield increase at the end wasn't really apparent to me. The extra electric in my high rate area is not really welcome, not without substantial yield improvement.

Wasn't the round finished quicker than usual?

 

[Positivity]

Wasn't the round finished quicker than usual?

It was quick, only a few days longer than 12/12. Just didn't see the yield increase i was expecting. Plant health wasn't great so results were a little skewed. Still, no extra large nugs i was thinking the extra light might give. The extra electric was kind of a deal killer for me..

Edit...somewhere with low electricity rates it would be nice, 13/11 or 13.5/10.5..captm?

So an important distinction came up..if electric use matters to you, not the best idea. Otherwise, pretty good for fast flowering