ROOT APHIDS The Final Solution!

Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Have root aphids?
Thought you had fungus gnats and they don't go away? You may have the insidious Root aphid!

I was just asked about how to rid a grow of these bastards. I learned this 5 years ago and it's time to share!

ROOT APHIDS are the most difficult pest to COMPLETELY destroy in your garden!
I have dealt with these damn things before and after contact with MSU and a Bayer Pharm Horticulturist (Word has it that Bayer has developed a new insecticide specific to root aphids, but it's not on the market yet. All though another grower I know was sent some [he badgered the hell out of them] for testing out on his problem - it worked). We came up with this 4 part system to break the cycle of root aphid pain.
Why a 4 part system? Because what ever 1 or 2 things you do they come fucking back! If you follow this method,,,,,they will be GONE!

The first 3 parts involve the actual fight to COMPLETELY kill off the infestation. Lets get started. Get ALL the needed insecticides FIRST, before you start this method!

#1: Root drench with Pyrethrin 2 times, 5 days apart! For soil run it through and use alot to be sure you get UNDERNEATH the root ball (something called the umbrella effect comes into play here, so you want to be SURE that all the media gets wet)! For Hydro,,simply remove the net pot and place it into a new container and pour the Pyreth mix through the stone's, ball's or what ever and let the root ball soak for 10 min. ! This will alone effectively kill off 80 -85 % of the problem only!

NOW 7 DAYS LATER DO THE FOLLOWING

#2: Get something called BotaniGuard (ES [liquid] or 22WP [powder]) Amazon sells this for the best price I have found anywhere, at $93 for the ES and $73 for the 22WP.....not cheap I know,,,BUT,,, it's going to be better then tossing every plant you have out and going to step #4 (unless you want to).
For soil, mix as directed and drench again as listed above (once and again 5 days later). Same thing applies for the soil as above and the same for the hydro.. DO NOT "shortcut" and use this stuff in the nutrient solution as it will kill off the fungal spores of the BotaniGuard. This will alone only kill off 98% of the problem,,,they WILL come back!
http://www.amazon.com/BotaniGard-22W...rds=botanigard

NOW 7 DAYS LATER DO THE FOLLOWING

#3: Get something called ORTHENE, the generic is far cheaper and is called ACEPHATE 97UP....Yes this is strong stuff,,,,,BUT at the level required for our use and the systemic duration of the chem it IS considered safe for our specific end use of the plant. Mix as directed (you will need a calculator to figure out the mix ratio per gallon. (4.7 grams per gallon?) please recheck my memory on this one as my grow notes from back then are not here at the house). Now put this into a spray bottle and LIGHTLY mist the TOP of the leaves on the entire plant. You DO NOT have to bury it in this stuff. It is a systemic and only needs a little to spread out into the entire plant, including the root system....The man at Bayer said to mist the top of the media you grow in also if you are in soil.....DO NOT DO SO IN HYDRO. Repeat in 7 Days!!!! This is it,,,,you've now killed off your problem in the plants.....BUT your not done yet!
http://www.growerssolution.com/PROD/...ontrol/70-1105


LASTLY and JUST as IMPORTANTLY

PART #4: While you are waiting in between applications of the insecticides. You must now clean and STERILIZE everything in the grow!!!!!! Pot's, tools, walls, floors, gaps between every door,vent, any incoming air tube's, AC unit's, Heaters, etc, etc, etc......Don't leave anything out! The damn eggs are VERY persistent!!!! So be especially SURE ALL pots and anything that contacts your growing media is sterilized! For hydro,,,be sure that when the grow is over you DO the same for the COMPLETE system your using!!! Lines, pots, res. ANYTHING that contacted the feed solution and everywhere that it didn't!

This seems like overkill, I know. Here in Michigan this was never a problem until it was imported from Cali on Grape rootings and clones.
Some may say "I got rid of them doing this "X", or you may find someone saying that "I did "Y", and the internet bozo's suggested "Z".....
But "I" can guarantee you that they will return! And 5 years ago, we would Kill them and a month later they were back worse then before...... It took a lot of internet and phone time to get this squared away for good!
I'm here today to say that this IS what FINALLY ended the problem and "knock wood" it has not come back again......KEEP IT CLEAN!

I suppose you may get "LUCKY". But do you REALLY want to take the chance?

GOOD LUCK!!!!!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
First of all root aphids is not exactly what I mean here. ....That term is applied to this for ease of understanding
Phylloxera is what I'm talking about and they are related.

And they love Cannabis
This is a quote from Wiki: "Currently there is no cure for phylloxera and unlike other grape diseases such as powdery or downy mildew, there is no chemical control or response."

Nematodes take to long to actually clear out an infestation (generally once you figure out that their Root Aphids, their everywhere, and all you get is reinfestation by eggs NOT in the soil and the nematodes have died off and you still HAVE to sterilize!
Azatrol drench can be tough on the plants roots but will work for #1 and still you'll only reach an effective kill ratio of 89-92% with then returning all to soon.....again you'll still need to sterilize!
Bonide again does not reach a 100% kill ratio alone on these tough ass bastards...It may be systemic like the Orthene,,but neither one will work alone every time.

You might have gotten lucky and caught them early if you actually had THEM. They can be hard to diagnose. The most common way to tell is if you think their fungus gnats and you can't get rid of them.

If you haven't had them....then you just don't know how hard these are to get rid of....

The person I mentioned who got the "stuff" from Bayer,,,,struggled for over a year. I got them from him and I got rid of them before he did. I Asked for the help when those things you suggested, didn't work...He was so stubborn that he said what I did wouldn't work for him. That he badgered the shit out of the Bayer guy till he came off some of the "experimental" juice just to make him go away (Bayer guy said don't give his name out anymore). The "juice" is being developed for the wine grape industry as the blight is spreading and the bugs are begining adapt to the North American root stock!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
rollitup said:
Geez, I've gotten rid of them before by using one application of imidocloprid, which is in some products by Bayer.


:mrgreen:
Click to expand...
It's going off the market due to it's killing bee's
Odd that the Bayer man didn't mention that,,,,,didn't try it.
Hmm,,well now I know...don't want to have to try it though!
 
moon.smoker

moon.smoker

Member
Hey doc, newb here but I am familiar with bayer, down south they have altriset, it's the chemical name of a termiticide for commercial users. say termiticide cause they are persistent things, as it also supposedly bonds with the soil to stay for a long time and lots of rain events, watering comes to mind, But I use it as a general pesticides for my garden. Well a rep. From bayer said its safe enough to drink straight, but I still dilute it to 1:100 and seems affective. I personally have sprayed this on hundreds of people's satsuma trees, dead give away, with never a "call back". These are people that pay my employ to me spray their personal money making crops,Lately I have been reading a lot due to medical reasons and hobby growing Is AWESOME, but I digress. :bigjoint:Hope that helps, btw its pricey.
 
potroastV2

potroastV2

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
It's going off the market due to it's killing bee's
Odd that the Bayer man didn't mention that,,,,,didn't try it.
Hmm,,well now I know...don't want to have to try it though!
Click to expand...

That's OK, Man. There are no bees in my grow room. :lol:

First you say Root Aphids, and then you say that's not what you are talking about?? I'm not going to try to kill anything that I can't pronounce.


:mrgreen:
 
Cascadian

Cascadian

Well-Known Member
Thanks Dr Who, I got legit RAs on my last grow. Haven't seen them back yet but I know they are there.

This info is exactly what I was looking for when I got them and I am sure will come in handy in my eradication efforts. After reading about them thoroughly I understand why some just bomb everything and start over.

Much appreciated,
Cascadian
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Sorry to confuse Rollitup. I used a generalization when I used the term "ROOT APHID". In my journey to find out just what these things were. I took several samples of them at differing stages to the Entomology Dept at MSU and was quickly told they were a type "Phylloxera". The grad student involved called them Root Aphids. So I continued to use the term.

I made some calls and was told that imidocloprid was not suggested at the time due to the half life in the plant (only 10 days) and the fact that it's concentrations were found more in the above ground sections of the plant then the Root system on the plant. While what I had was a Root problem. On this call back BOTH persons involved were a little surprised at your success.....They both said that imidocloprid CAN CAUSE outbreaks of SPIDER MITES and that was the final factor in it NOT be suggested to me for my exact use. Both of them stated a paper from Univ. Cal. Ag and NR as the basis of that thought.

On the use of Imidocloprid; I wish I'd have had that info then as I would have tried it! Mites I can deal with Fast!!!!
Tip of the hat to RIU! *LIKE*
Note to RIU, The Bayer man said to thank you for the info on your successful use of the product. The info will be put to lab use!
 
potroastV2

potroastV2

Well-Known Member
I used it several years ago. I didn't have any mites after that. I also talked with a rep from Bayer back then.

When I first noticed the affected roots, I put them under the microscope and immediately identified the bugs as aphids by the pointy thing on their ass. Then I checked into it, and ended up using the Bayer product.

Thanks for the info!


:mrgreen:
 
L

llamama

New Member
What concentration of Pyrethrin? I've been looking for how to use pyrethrin in soil but never found anything! I've tried several things for my root aphids but they still hang on. I'm in week 5 of flower and hope the pyrethrin might get me through this harvest. Or else I was going to try insecticidal soap or a combo with pyrethrin. Also is a synthetic form better?

Dr. Who said:
Have root aphids?


#1: Root drench with Pyrethrin 2 times, 5 days apart! For soil run it through and use alot to be sure you get UNDERNEATH the root ball (something called the umbrella effect comes into play here, so you want to be SURE that all the media gets wet)! For Hydro,,simply remove the net pot and place it into a new container and pour the Pyreth mix through the stone's, ball's or what ever and let the root ball soak for 10 min. ! This will alone effectively kill off 80 -85 % of the problem only!

NOW 7 DAYS LATER DO THE FOLLOWING:
Click to expand...
 
Cascadian

Cascadian

Well-Known Member
I was in the exact same stage of flower when I discovered them and had the same goal of just getting through to harvest. I was successful, I haven't seen but a few root aphids since the treatment. I did one root dunk with 1.5 - 2 Tbs/gallon (I used Bonide 857 because it was cheaper than Evergreen), 1 Tbs/gallon of rosemary oil (was told this was a bad idea after the fact so "optional"), I also added about 1 liquid oz of soap to the mix of about 12 gallons total. The plants did not go into shock or slow down noticeably.

Wait for some other responses though, this is the only time I have delt with them and am not an expert by any means.

Good Luck!
 
S

stuckinabeat

Active Member
Hi Dr Who. Thanks for posting all the great info. Im inthe middle of your treatment. I have one more botanigard treatment then comes the orthene. I was wondering if the orthene did any damage to the plants and also why did u wait to the very end to hit them with orthene?

I have been spraying the walls and floor with pyrethrin and Im hoping that repeat treatments of that along with bleach will be enough to kill any eggs or strays. Do u think that will do the trick? Thanks again for taking the time to post this.
 
B

bigdog123

Active Member
I am here to diagnose some fuckery. I have had what I thought was fungus gnats buzzing around for a couple grows. They don't seem to do much harm so aside from setting sticky traps, I haven't paid them much attention.

I have some babies in week 2 of veg that are drooping a little more than I would like. This is my first time working with this strain so I'm not sure if it's to be expected. In any case, I begin looking into potential pests and freak out when I discover I may have root aphids.

I sliced some potatoes and placed them on my soil last night. The following photos are what I found today.





 
C

Cali Med Patient

New Member
I've read in other forums how the use of Orthene caused burning or other problems in the plants. Has anyone noticed any negative effects from foliaring with Orthene? And is the 4.7 grams per gallon the correct amount to use for a foliar spray? Thanks!
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Cali Med Patient said:
I've read in other forums how the use of Orthene caused burning or other problems in the plants. Has anyone noticed any negative effects from foliaring with Orthene? And is the 4.7 grams per gallon the correct amount to use for a foliar spray? Thanks!
Click to expand...
It is considered non-phytotoxic on many crop plants
I never had a problem......but I never sprayed either! ROOT DRENCH - 21grams per 5 gallons.

I have now found that Imid does work and that as a root drench too.....Merit 75 or one of it's clones.....I would not use this bloom....
Personally, I would use this as a last resort if the other method did not work.....Be aware that the use of Imid products will cause the plant to produce a pheromone that will attract mites! The choice is up to you.

Doc
 
C

Cali Med Patient

New Member
In your instructions at the top of this post you say "Now put this into a spray bottle and LIGHTLY mist the TOP of the leaves on the entire plant. "

I used Merit75 when I potted up my clones, and again when I transplanted into 3 gallons, and while it did knock them down, I now have fliers again, so I wanted to try some orthene. I think mine are resistant to imid. I'll try the root drench and hope that it doesn't fry them.
 
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