"Drugs aren't the problem."

laywhoish12

Well-Known Member
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/drugs-aren-t-the-problem-says-addictions-expert-dr-carl-hart-1.3101538

Before he became a renowned neuroscientist and drug abuse specialist, Dr. Carl Hart dabbled in selling and using drugs while growing up in Miami.

Hart said the overwhelming majority of drugs users don't have a drug problem, and he's advocating for governments to change their approach.

"The first thing I would do," said Hart, a medical doctor and associate professor of psychology at Columbia University, "I would make sure that we stop arresting people."

Drugs are often used as a scapegoat for other problems such as poverty and crime, said Hart, adding that drugs are not as addictive as we have been told.

Hart said the vast majority of people who use drugs like crack cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine are not addicted and are able to go to work, pay taxes, bills, and take care of their families.

"When you have this relatively small percentage of users becoming addicted, it tells you that it's not the drug itself. The people who we see — for example on [East] Hastings — The reason why they are there, it varies. If we really want to know we'd have to give them individual assessments."

"You could disrupt drug taking behaviour if you had a careful understanding of what was motivating [it]," said Hart.

"Sometimes people have trauma or co-occurring psychiatric disorders that you have to treat. Other times they're just destitute."

Hart said public policy needs to shift focus toward treating people's real reasons for their drug addiction, and that may involve better mental health services or economic opportunities.

Instead of the U.S.'s war on drugs, Hart would rather see his country adopt drug policies similar to those in Portugal and the Czech Republic, where all drugs have been decriminalized, and arrests have been replaced with citations similar to traffic violations.

Hart also said we need to change the way we educate people about drugs.

"Stop exaggerating the harmful effects of drugs, and teach people how to be safe with drugs. Teach people how not to overindulge, just like we do with alcohol."
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
i agree with his views on drug policy and education but most people who actually do have experience selling drugs, especially hard drugs, would disagree with him about the addictive properties of these substances. drugs like heroin, crack, meth; do not have a relatively small percentage of addicted users.
 

laywhoish12

Well-Known Member
i agree with his views on drug policy and education but most people who actually do have experience selling drugs, especially hard drugs, would disagree with him about the addictive properties of these substances. drugs like heroin, crack, meth; do not have a relatively small percentage of addicted users.
Yeah heroin is starting to take over bad around here.

Many younger kids getting hooked 14+ it's sad to see.
 
Agreed on all points. I think the important thing is that we try something new...arresting and punishing users (even addicts) only creates a domino effect of other societal problems. The point made on co-existing mental illness is an important one - how many people self-medicate without knowing it?
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
Yeah heroin is starting to take over bad around here.

Many younger kids getting hooked 14+ it's sad to see.
very sad to see. addiction is a very real and serious epidemic. what sucks about this dr. hart guy is no one will ever take him seriously when he's running around saying drugs aren't addicting and it's all the user's fault for abusing hard drugs. he's just plain wrong.

i didn't pickup a nasty pill habit because i was a piece of shit who couldn't control himself. i was just a 16 year old kid who woke up to the marshmellowy smell of a roxi being smoked. off to the races after that...a time in my life where in retrospect i can truly say i was out of control. the drug owned me and i didn't even know it.
 

laywhoish12

Well-Known Member
very sad to see. addiction is a very real and serious epidemic. what sucks about this dr. hart guy is no one will ever take him seriously when he's running around saying drugs aren't addicting and it's all the user's fault for abusing hard drugs. he's just plain wrong.

i didn't pickup a nasty pill habit because i was a piece of shit who couldn't control himself. i was just a 16 year old kid who woke up to the marshmellowy smell of a roxi being smoked. off to the races after that...a time in my life where in retrospect i can truly say i was out of control. the drug owned me and i didn't even know it.
It's hard to get people to see things like this maybe one day they'll understand.

I agree with you there I had a terrible heroin addiction in my youth just decided to give it a try after that it was like falling in love with the first woman I ever came to know. It was over after that.

Luckily I got it under control and sought help and got the monkey off my back one of the few out of my group that can happily say that other were not so lucky.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Most things ate situational.


It was found that the vast majority of Viet Nam vets got heroin habits in country. The fear was that they would spread this "epidemic" to the us.

What happened was the majority simply quit when they got home among family and friends in places where other people were not working very heard to make them dead.
 

rory420420

Well-Known Member
I've said time and time (and time) again...
Its not the drug its the user.

Think I'll get my doctorate. If you put 'M.D." behind your name,people will entertain an idea you put forth that would never get attention otherwise ..
I could tell people they're wrong..and they'll finally believe me!!:-)
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
I've said time and time (and time) again...
Its not the drug its the user.

Think I'll get my doctorate. If you put 'M.D." behind your name,people will entertain an idea you put forth that would never get attention otherwise ..
I could tell people they're wrong..and they'll finally believe me!!:-)
you don't think heroin is addicting?
 

marquezmurder

Well-Known Member
IMO it is a mind over matter thing, at least it always has been for me.Not saying there are not physical symptoms to this but still... with a healthy mind we are capable of amazing feats. I can see how addiction can be correlated to environment.
 

rory420420

Well-Known Member
you don't think heroin is addicting?
Physically yes...but no more than cigarettes.. I've found in my time that very few people have will power or determination like they think...my buddy proves it by taking nasty bitches home all the time..he gets drunk,lonely,and wants that love but can't say no even when its bad for him,cause he talks himself into it..its easy to do...
Heroin addicts,even easier to fall back on..sickness is talking to you..but if you REALLY WANT TO QUIT ANYTHING THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP YOUR MIND AND QUIT.
drugs don't addict people,peoples mindsets do.
I'm proof..no n.a.,no Jesus,no rehab,no a.a.,no medication...quit a dime a day dope habit,meth,coke,never smoked rock, but..and in the past 2 years alcohol..I was drinking liquor at coffee time!
So..if my slack hippy as can get motivated,it seems to me I did the motivating for myself,not anyone or thing else helped neither.. If I did it,I say even more so,
Its the user,not the drug:-)
 

marquezmurder

Well-Known Member
Physically yes...but no more than cigarettes.. I've found in my time that very few people have will power or determination like they think...my buddy proves it by taking nasty bitches home all the time..he gets drunk,lonely,and wants that love but can't say no even when its bad for him,cause he talks himself into it..its easy to do...
Heroin addicts,even easier to fall back on..sickness is talking to you..but if you REALLY WANT TO QUIT ANYTHING THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP YOUR MIND AND QUIT.
drugs don't addict people,peoples mindsets do.
I'm proof..no n.a.,no Jesus,no rehab,no a.a.,no medication...quit a dime a day dope habit,meth,coke,never smoked rock, but..and in the past 2 years alcohol..I was drinking liquor at coffee time!
So..if my slack hippy as can get motivated,it seems to me I did the motivating for myself,not anyone or thing else helped neither.. If I did it,I say even more so,
Its the user,not the drug:-)
:clap: :weed:
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
Physically yes...but no more than cigarettes.. I've found in my time that very few people have will power or determination like they think...my buddy proves it by taking nasty bitches home all the time..he gets drunk,lonely,and wants that love but can't say no even when its bad for him,cause he talks himself into it..its easy to do...
Heroin addicts,even easier to fall back on..sickness is talking to you..but if you REALLY WANT TO QUIT ANYTHING THEN YOU HAVE TO MAKE UP YOUR MIND AND QUIT.
drugs don't addict people,peoples mindsets do.
I'm proof..no n.a.,no Jesus,no rehab,no a.a.,no medication...quit a dime a day dope habit,meth,coke,never smoked rock, but..and in the past 2 years alcohol..I was drinking liquor at coffee time!
So..if my slack hippy as can get motivated,it seems to me I did the motivating for myself,not anyone or thing else helped neither.. If I did it,I say even more so,
Its the user,not the drug:-)
i don't like the "its the user, not the drug" because i think it really is a combination of both. i do agree with you, if someone wants to quit then they very well can. however, the damage done during the time it takes for an addict to get it together and get clean remains. a lot of people out there lost all their possessions, family, friends, and no matter what they do they won't ever get those things back. sure, everyone has what it takes to quit, but the fact remains that these substances are addictive enough to cause serious damage in people's lives. sometimes irreversible damage. if these drugs are on par with cigarettes, just think about how long it takes some people to quit smoking. some people fight that battle their whole lives. if it were heroin instead of cigarettes, those people would have destroyed their entire lives or died too young.
 

rory420420

Well-Known Member
i don't like the "its the user, not the drug" because i think it really is a combination of both. i do agree with you, if someone wants to quit then they very well can. however, the damage done during the time it takes for an addict to get it together and get clean remains. a lot of people out there lost all their possessions, family, friends, and no matter what they do they won't ever get those things back. sure, everyone has what it takes to quit, but the fact remains that these substances are addictive enough to cause serious damage in people's lives. sometimes irreversible damage. if these drugs are on par with cigarettes, just think about how long it takes some people to quit smoking. some people fight that battle their whole lives. if it were heroin instead of cigarettes, those people would have destroyed their entire lives or died too young.
I hopeche don't mind the use of his situation and him as another example.but look at @canndo ..he partakes in addictive drugs,but isn't addicted..he did get physically addicted to perks and oxy,but knew to stop,and his will power and fortitude and knowledge kept him from continued use and further addiction.
HE can do this..maybe you can't. And that's o.k.,were all different..
The drug however,is a chemical that stays the same.
 

laywhoish12

Well-Known Member
I agree it's a combination of both and if people are well knowledgeable and have the will power they can stop. Honestly though once people get "hooked" and lose a lot and use progresses and they start self medicating for underlying issues or problems in their life's they COULD stop but it is ALOT harder and most need help from others as they are not strong enough.
 

CCCmints

Well-Known Member
I hopeche don't mind the use of his situation and him as another example.but look at @canndo ..he partakes in addictive drugs,but isn't addicted..he did get physically addicted to perks and oxy,but knew to stop,and his will power and fortitude and knowledge kept him from continued use and further addiction.
HE can do this..maybe you can't. And that's o.k.,were all different..
The drug however,is a chemical that stays the same.
i can, i did. regardless, i agree with most of what this article contains.
 

marquezmurder

Well-Known Member
I hopeche don't mind the use of his situation and him as another example.but look at @canndo ..he partakes in addictive drugs,but isn't addicted..he did get physically addicted to perks and oxy,but knew to stop,and his will power and fortitude and knowledge kept him from continued use and further addiction.
HE can do this..maybe you can't. And that's o.k.,were all different..
The drug however,is a chemical that stays the same.
i can, i did. regardless, i agree with most of what this article contains.
Your both right, Brain chemistry is not my most knowledgeable topic but it is safe to say, everyone different.
 

rory420420

Well-Known Member
i don't like the "its the user, not the drug" because i think it really is a combination of both. i do agree with you, if someone wants to quit then they very well can. however, the damage done during the time it takes for an addict to get it together and get clean remains. a lot of people out there lost all their possessions, family, friends, and no matter what they do they won't ever get those things back. sure, everyone has what it takes to quit, but the fact remains that these substances are addictive enough to cause serious damage in people's lives. sometimes irreversible damage. if these drugs are on par with cigarettes, just think about how long it takes some people to quit smoking. some people fight that battle their whole lives. if it were heroin instead of cigarettes, those people would have destroyed their entire lives or died too young.
Trust me,I'm not playing devils advocate,even users of heroin and such drugs know its not good to use them,and they can turn peoples lives inside out,but users let the drugs do so...
I used to chew up 15x 10 mg lortabs to get well in the morning...stopped..no opiates for @10 years then I got a tooth pulled.. 8 x 10mg lortabs the doc gives me..ate em all in ten hours,and not any since.
Self-control starts with ' self'and no one is their self on drugs..proof is pavlovian response to ex addicts watching video of a shit being cooked...
I agree and don't equally.. I think you may as well..
Either way..drugs that let a rational person behave irrationally are bad..but the drug didn't
i can, i did. regardless, i agree with most of what this article contains.
And to an extent I do as well..
But im a realist even in hypothetical situations...some can drink a drink,or have a casual cigarette,or play angry birds every once in a while.for others these things consume every moment of their lives...
Same with drugs..I know people,myself included, who could do a number of drugs and it be recreational.. Few lines of coke for some guy,at his birthday,and none again for 2 years..I also know people who would do a bump,and turn around and mug you for more...
Again..different people,same drug..
I'm sure glad you got wise with shit and had the will and knowledge to get over it...you're one of the few with will power to a degree;it seems you got your head on as well now...I was in your same mindframe,and thought I would never do any substance again other than L and herb,as I "know myself,and I'll be right back to fucking up,even just a recreational taste will send me outta control.." But quickly realized eating L and smoking,I could control the intake of other drugs,as L makes me think,strengthens my mind,and I realized if man makes,man can break..so nothing man made could control me I figured..so I tested myself..did a bump of k..didn't go nuts..then 3 weeks later,similar incident..still fine..then nothing for a looong time,just because..idk why..but I proved to myself I had grounding,and that I can control myself,and rationalized I'm cutting myself short and missing some added glow to life..I can accentuate an evening of boating with a line of coke or if I chose a pill of sorts..but still back to sober and normal and not chasing things...not trying to talk ya into old habits,just talking to get to my point...
Now in my later years of drug consumption,none of these drugs interest me ..sure I think about how a line or shot or whatever might elevate the evening,make dinner more casual with a friend,but my mind goes to the recovery hangover,or nosebleeds,then my rational coincides with my true lack of no interest in the buzz these things offer,and I figure I'd rather have 8 hrs of gardening tomorrow instead of sleep in or feel irritable.also stereotypes..no one wants to have people know they do hard drugs,that's why they go to the bathroom:-).
.my real addiction,I'd sell plasma so I could grow pot:-)
Wow.story time over:-)
 
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