Creating True F1's (Help Me! :o )

[King Arthur]

Alright so if anyone with a good amount of experience and knowledge on breeding point me towards some literature that will set me on my way to understanding how to breed cannabis the right way and also something not too jargony about genes.

My short term objective is to create two true f1's to cross together, my long term goal is to provide quality genetics to people who cannot afford them and to those who are proper people. Distribution is far down the line as I know how to grow a plant but I don't have the slightest clue even after all the reading I have done on how to breed some true f1's.

Thank you for your time and patience, have a blessed day.

 

[budolskie]

I am also learning how to breed, I have just ordered the breeders bible from ebay...

Are you wanting 2 f1 seeds to cross into and f2?
This would be like crossing the sibling f1 to.make an f2


Or 2 f1 seeds to cross into another f1 seeds....
this would be like using 4 parents to
get 2 different kinds of f1 then crossing both f1s for another f1

 

[bf80255]

Alright so if anyone with a good amount of experience and knowledge on breeding point me towards some literature that will set me on my way to understanding how to breed cannabis the right way and also something not too jargony about genes.

My short term objective is to create two true f1's to cross together, my long term goal is to provide quality genetics to people who cannot afford them and to those who are proper people. Distribution is far down the line as I know how to grow a plant but I don't have the slightest clue even after all the reading I have done on how to breed some true f1's.

Thank you for your time and patience, have a blessed day.

I really like your goals for breeding.

watch that video, it should give you a good base to go off of then pm me and Ill hook you up with some websites, articles, etc to get you up to speed on at least all the knowlege I have in regards to breeding. I have nothing to hide good breeding is basically just a lot of hard work, studying and time.

 

[bf80255]

why do you want to make a polyhybrid? honestly a better goal would be to choose 1 strain and growing out a whole bunch of them until you find a really exceptional specimen then repeating that with another strain and then using the 2 studs to creat a really nice F1 and go from there. (that alone could take years)

 

[King Arthur]

I really like your goals for breeding.

watch that video, it should give you a good base to go off of then pm me and Ill hook you up with some websites, articles, etc to get you up to speed on at least all the knowlege I have in regards to breeding. I have nothing to hide good breeding is basically just a lot of hard work, studying and time.

Thank you for the video! I will check it out and then get back to you. Awesome that someone finally responded . Peace, Love, And Good Vibes all around!

 

[EverythingsHazy]

F1 just means first generation. Any reason you want to breed two f1's together? For what you said, you can go two ways.

Option 1:
(Father x Mother) x (Father#2 x Mother#2) = f1's
They will be uniform looking, but will have a bunch of different phenotypes when used for breeding, or inbred to f2.

Option 2:
Father x Mother = f1's
From the same batch (siblings) F1 x F1 = f2
The f2's will have a bunch of phenos for you to choose from.

You have to inbreed the line until f7 for true stability and uniformity in all the offspring. Most strains, especially complex crosses, are sold way before f7, which is why people get different phenos.

 

[King Arthur]

I agree, I have seen F8's and they are pretty damn uniform to each other. Sannies Seeds does a fine job breeding. I wouldn't mind taking my work generations but I have to set up a breeding chamber so I don't ruin the rest of my stuff.

 

[bf80255]

F1 just means first generation. Any reason you want to breed two f1's together? For what you said, you can go two ways.

Option 1:
(Father x Mother) x (Father#2 x Mother#2) = f1's
They will be uniform looking, but will have a bunch of different phenotypes when used for breeding, or inbred to f2.

Option 2:
Father x Mother = f1's
From the same batch (siblings) F1 x F1 = f2
The f2's will have a bunch of phenos for you to choose from.

You have to inbreed the line until f7 for true stability and uniformity in all the offspring. Most strains, especially complex crosses, are sold way before f7, which is why people get different phenos.

you have to breed to F7 for true stability? where are you getting that number from (cite source) ?
the way genetics works you could potentially fuly stabalize a line in 3-4 generations if your population sizes were big enough for proper selection and you did all the proper test crosses or used chemicals like ethephon to speed shit up.

I agree with the last paragraph tho lol

 

[EverythingsHazy]

you have to breed to F7 for true stability? where are you getting that number from (cite source) ?
the way genetics works you could potentially fuly stabalize a line in 3-4 generations if your population sizes were big enough for proper selection and you did all the proper test crosses or used chemicals like ethephon to speed shit up.

I agree with the last paragraph tho lol

Source:

 

[King Arthur]

Source:

Thanks for posting this brother, it appears to me that F4 is the sweet spot and F8 is the super sweet spot.

 

[EverythingsHazy]

Thanks for posting this brother, it appears to me that F4 is the sweet spot and F8 is the super sweet spot.

Yea, f1 seeds are all uniform, but aren't good indicators of what all the offspring will look like, even when selfed (it's a weird concept to grasp at first). You get a pretty big droppoff in variety witgh the f3 and f4 offspring, but still noticeable if you grow out 5-10 of them. By f7-8 you should be close to only having about 1-in-100 growing differently than its siblings.

 

[King Arthur]

Yea, f1 seeds are all uniform, but aren't good indicators of what all the offspring will look like, even when selfed (it's a weird concept to grasp at first). You get a pretty big droppoff in variety witgh the f3 and f4 offspring, but still noticeable if you grow out 5-10 of them. By f7-8 you should be close to only having about 1-in-100 growing differently than its siblings.

To do proper takes years and years and time and very good selection. Ahhh it is such a beautiful thing, I am starting to love the earth and what it brings us. Forget politics and all the bullshit, put my hands in the dirt and bring things to life clears away all that for a while.

I am pretty ripped right now, thanks to mother nature bringing me some fine herb. I wanna grow organic strawberries too . So once I can breed effectively with cannabis I want to get my hands dirty on that!

Cheers, you guys rock. Much love and peace.

 

[King Arthur]

Yea, f1 seeds are all uniform, but aren't good indicators of what all the offspring will look like, even when selfed (it's a weird concept to grasp at first). You get a pretty big droppoff in variety witgh the f3 and f4 offspring, but still noticeable if you grow out 5-10 of them. By f7-8 you should be close to only having about 1-in-100 growing differently than its siblings.

Oh question that just popped into my head, would it be wrong to breed with the same father every time or do you need to select a mother AND father for each stage from F1-F8 ? Or maybe I am just too stoned, I am gonna re read this.

 

[King Arthur]

you have to breed to F7 for true stability? where are you getting that number from (cite source) ?
the way genetics works you could potentially fuly stabalize a line in 3-4 generations if your population sizes were big enough for proper selection and you did all the proper test crosses or used chemicals like ethephon to speed shit up.

I agree with the last paragraph tho lol

I will pm you soon! I appreciate you both throwing down for me to learn. Knowledge is a very profitable field and I just want everyone to know I am grateful and appreciate it so much.

 

[torontoke]

I will pm you soon! I appreciate you both throwing down for me to learn. Knowledge is a very profitable field and I just want everyone to know I am grateful and appreciate it so much.

I second that!
I just learned a whole bunch just by passing by.
Cheers

 

[budolskie]

I'm also learning by this I have a few pips going I'm hoping for a male from to collect some pollen

I also got a cut from a seed I planted that was in one my runs a while back I have a tub full this is the cut I flowered soon as rooted


This pic 7 weeks flower

 

[King Arthur]

I just found a huge ass male in the garden, I thought it was a she because of how slow he was developing but nope. Brothers Haze ... I wanna keep it but it is a fuckin jungle and I am afraid I might ruin the whole crop if I keep him.

Damn the choices, I might throw him up for a modeling shot tomorrow before I decide.

 

[budolskie]

Fingers crossed for no pips as the test run out doors last year produced bud and no pips but the bud was shit as UK weather is shit

 

[bf80255]

Source:

thank you for that @EverythingsHazy but he only issue with this graph is that these populations were selected randomly from generation to generation

quote"
Look what happens to the unlike paired genes over time in randomly selected populations." end quote

if when you reached the F2 you only selected plants that had genes segregated in the way you are searching for you would then be able to establish true breeding lines from the F2 population like in the graph how 1/4 is solid blue at the F2 if you only chose specimins from that population they would undoubtedly breed true for your selected traits

I can attest to this as I found from a cross of Auto and Photo genes at the F2 1/4 were auto and only selecting these plants was able to make the cross fully auto by the 3rd generation and ive yet to see a photo since.


this was also done with "Selfing" tomatoes not inbreeding cannabis
pretty cool article though

 

[bf80255]

Oh question that just popped into my head, would it be wrong to breed with the same father every time or do you need to select a mother AND father for each stage from F1-F8 ? Or maybe I am just too stoned, I am gonna re read this.

same father as in the same F1 father and F2 fem-F3fem-F4fem? No that would undo your progress at every generation, the F2 is the generation where your esentially establishing what you want because at that point the genes you crossed into the homogenous F1's will begin to segregate again but this time theyll be a mix of both parents but all jumbled up and youll have to find the plants that hit all the traits your after.

say for instance you cross a high yielding skunk with an ultra frosty amnesia the F1 might give you ultra frosty, high yielding plants but in the F2 youll see skunk dominant plants, amnesia dominant, some funky stuff thats been hiding, and your ideal plants the ones that have the high yield characteristic of the skunk but still frost up like the amnesia. once you find those F2 studs its just a matter of choosing the plants that best fit that description generation after gneration till you stop seeing variation and youll have made an inbred line

If you mean 1 male per generation then thats fine a lot of breeders do that. youll want to limit the genetic contribution of males at first anyway because you cant really see what they have to offer short of veg traits(or test crosses). what ive found that works really well is to use about 10% of your TOP females and 1 male per generation so maybe 6 girls and 1 guy, take those beans and run 10-20 per line and see which produces the best results (save best females) and thatll give you a good indication of which plants(female) produce the most superior offspring, then use her to breed a bunch of seed and push forward to the next gen and repeat with new parents. (its like reverse test crossing so you dont have to deal with so many males)