The evils of being

medicineman

medicineman

New Member
yWhen I read some of the replies to threads here on this site, I think the human race is a pile of crap. I read and see things on TV that just rip my heart out, and on this site all I hear is, what about me and my freedoms? If you are starving, then freedom doesn't mean dick. There is a chart of human conditions that I have a bare recollection of from one of my psych. classes. It starts with physical survival and ends with searching for metaphysical fulfillment. When 90% of the world are in the first stage, I find it hard to be sympathetic to a bunch of whiners bitching about their freedoms. Take away all your comforts and I'll bet getting food and shelter might trump your libertarian rants. Yeah it's nice to be rich and not have to worry about your next meal, but as long as there is someone else worrying about theirs or their childrens, there is no fucking justice on planet earth, and the rich are devils in disguise.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
When society as we know it comes tumbling down; when the blood of revolution is running red in the streets; when all of our property, including our very beings, is owned by the state; when we are equally poor; when we have the jack-boot of tyranny in our faces forever ... it will be my ultimate pleasure to come to Las Vegas, grab you by the neck and choke the life out of you Med.

Vi
 
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GoodbyeFreedom

GoodbyeFreedom

Well-Known Member
Well... im kinda confused and dont quite understand what youre getting at, but ill throw my 2 cents in anyways.

To me, i would say its the exact opposite. The idea of freedom, to the poor, is all they have. Freedom from this evil ass system, freedom from the constraints of this world, freedom from the chains of poverty.
 
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GrowTech

GrowTech

stays relevant.
Stoney McFried said:
I've done the poor thing.You know youre poor when you have to choose between toothpaste and toilet paper.
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that sucks :( i'm sorry for you, i would go with toothpaste and wipe with my hand though... obviously you have water, but then you need to buy better soap.

oh the struggles.
 
High4Life

High4Life

Well-Known Member
People are just to spoilt now to care about others .. Most people cant even live with out a moble phone for a few hours now or there Pc. Every thing is taking for granted and if im ok fuck every 1 else is the attdude of people ,

But really what is more rewarding is to do somthing for another rather than trying to get every thing for your self and no 1 else .. Try making people beleave this most of us will be gone in 40 years so wtf ........... Every 1 is worry about the silly thing,s to much. One Massive Earthquake wipes all that crap off the boards

Its all about survival and reproducing .If a spoilt rich kids Legacy is taking from him i dought he would be able to do eather as
They do not understand that sort of misfortune so they just act Ignorent towards it ..
 
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medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
When society as we know it comes tumbling down; when the blood of revolution is running red in the streets; when all of our property, including our very beings, is owned by the state; when we are equally poor; when we have the jack-boot of tyranny in our faces forever ... it will be my ultimate pleasure to come to Las Vegas, grab you by the neck and choke the life out of you Med.

Vi
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You see, you make it personal. It's not about me, it's about us. when we take the me out of society, the society will benefit for all. I realize that I'm probably a hundred years before my time, but the individual has to die for the collective to prosper, and this has to be of course on a voluntary basis. Take the me out of us and we have we. When everyone is concerned about everyone elses welfare, then the human condition will be ripe for the creator to come back and visit,. untill that time, there will be strife and war, greed and ill will.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
medicineman said:
You see, you make it personal. It's not about me, it's about us. when we take the me out of society, the society will benefit for all. I realize that I'm probably a hundred years before my time, but the individual has to die for the collective to prosper, and this has to be of course on a voluntary basis. Take the me out of us and we have we. When everyone is concerned about everyone elses welfare, then the human condition will be ripe for the creator to come back and visit,. untill that time, there will be strife and war, greed and ill will.
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Damn, Med ... you keep putting me into a fit of maniacal laughter. Let me pick myself up off the floor.

What you posted above could have come right out of Nazi doctrine. Have you been reading the history of the German National Socialist Party playbook or something?

Vi

Oh, and by the way ... I didn't mean my first post as a personal attack at all. I used the term "you" to mean all the other dupes who think the same dangerous thoughts as you. :blsmoke:
 
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undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
medicineman said:
.....the individual has to die for the collective to prosper and this has to be, of course, on a voluntary basis.
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"surprise, surprise, surprise", says the voice of gomer pyle from deep beneath the permafrost.

we agree at last, at least in part. my question to you is - how can a species evolve to such a point if they are not free to change on their own? do you propose to force such a change under the thumb of totalitarian measures? you advocate socialist controls in one of the freest nations on earth, then voice a desire for voluntary communalism. can't you see that the former makes the latter almost impossible?
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
What you posted above could have come right out of Nazi doctrine.
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though the sentiment has been used by despots to justify their tyranny, it has been the utopian ideal of those who truly love humanity for as long as there have been dreamers. if given the freedom and time to do so, most of us would like to think that mankind could progress enough to care more about his neighbor than he does about himself. med's only problem (well - i'm sure he's got quite a few problems, but let's not get into that now), along with many other well intentioned liberals, is that he seems to believe that a proper intermediate step is to force us all into the mold prematurely, trampling the freedom of any that might get in the way of the ideal.
 
ccodiane

ccodiane

New Member
[SIZE=+2]For the wages of sin is death.[/SIZE]Romans 6:23
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[SIZE=+1]From wealth (khrémata) does not come virtue (areté), but from virtue comes wealth and the whole of other goods (agathá) for men, private (ídios) and public (demósios).[/SIZE]
Socrates, Plato's Apology of Socrates, 30b
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[SIZE=+1]Still one thing more, fellow citizens -- a wise and frugal government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, which shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.[/SIZE]
Thomas Jefferson, First Inaugural Address, 1801
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[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.[/SIZE]
James Madison, Federalist No. 51
 
ccodiane

ccodiane

New Member
mankind could progress enough to care more about his neighbor than he does about himself.

Sounds like Communism. "Did you see the size of that piece of bread the Jones's brought home. How come our piece of bread is so small? We obviously need to kiss some more ass, comrade! I know, lets rat out the Smith's for growing barley in their back yard."
 
ccodiane

ccodiane

New Member
Excellent stuff....excerpt from, last paragraph.

The Paternal State, Welfare State, and Free State

"When truths
of economic principles like those of Public Choice theory or Say's Law are never heard in political discourse and almost never heard in public at all,

things do not look good for the future of freedom. As the welfare state runs up against fiscal failure, the rebound can as well be back towards paternalism as towards liberalism. The ongoing popularity of the war on drugs

and the virtual media black-out of principled criticism of it holds out little hope that liberal priniciples can be reestablished in that direction. Meanwhile, most citizens seem to have come to believe that a non-judgmental,

unconditional maternal care is what the government owes them. In a democracy, this means that politicians will continue to promise the Moon and shuffle the paperwork under the carpet. Unlike Enron, the fraud and

diseconomies of this can be concealed for decades, as long as the debt can be obscured or deferred. The Social Security system will cease to run a surplus and begin to draw on the Treasury some time beween 2012 and

2018, by current estimates. Politicians promising ever more benefits can hurry that along a bit. They do say that people get the kind of government they deserve. And the Founding Fathers did say that the Republic would

only last as long as the virtue of the citizens. The greatest evil of the welfare state, indeed, is that it is designed to protect people from the consequences of vice. Now we have the worst of both worlds, and the most

noxious and evil of combinations, when many in government think it is their job to enforce virtue, paternally, but then actually have to promise, maternally, to protect everyone from their own imprudence and folly --

meaning of course, that the remaining prudent and wise must pay the cost. They don't like that, but their political voice is usually muted or distracted. If they knew what to demand, it would simply be that government is

neither mother nor father, while it is the duty of citizens to be adults."
 
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undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
ccodiane said:
Sounds like Communism.
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it does indeed, because that is exactly what it is. not the forced socialist totalitarianism so adored by the new left, but a natural idealistic communalism that springs from an advanced ethical outlook. the individual need not be destroyed to arrive at such an attitude, but that individual's charitable nature must expand to encompass the whole of humanity. it is an utopian ideal that, though it may seem nothing more than a foolish daydream now, we should all hope mankind may some day attain.
 
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