Outdoor with limited sunlight...
- Thread starter Humanrob
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Humanrob
Well-Known Member
See below...
I'm wondering how early you would recommend thinning the undergrowth? Would you be doing it all along, or would you wait until September when they are flowering and the temps cool down, and then do a more intense thinning?
Here's what they look like now, any advice is truly appreciated!
This is an Alien OG in a 100 gallon smart pot. The 'net' is funky, but it was starting to stretch and I wanted to spread it out, and that's all I had on hand.
This is a Chemdawg 91. All of my plants have been topped twice, this one reacted as I would hope and just bushed out on its own, all the others have been (to one degree or another) scrogged.
Those two and two others are in a make-shift structure to protect them from wind and rain (major fall issues where I live). There are actually two mystery plants in 10 gallon pots squeezed in between, they were from seeds someone gave me, supposedly they might be Northern Lights. I just wanted to try growing some from seeds, and they were free.
These next two are 20 feet from the others, but get more light, and were put out earlier (late April). They are showing signs of flowering already. The one on the left is a Wifi OG, the one on the right is a GSC Dough. On the right side of the picture you can just make out part of the steel kids play thing they are under, I'll be mounting 6mil. plastic over that late September+/- , with a way to open it up in the morning and close it down in the evening.
Thanks again!
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calicocalyx
Well-Known Member
I thin about as often as I top. I also tie the branches out whenever applicable. Right about now I get into rythmn of once a week just focusing on thinning, I go for a dappled light through the canopy look, they fill back in, in a week or so. Since my plants just went into the final cage, and I'm not sure if the early strains are going straight into flower, I am focusing on tieing the branches out. Once they are out I can get a good look at what is shaded and won't make it to the light. The longer you go without thinning, the more "wasted" growth you prune later. If you stay on it the plant focuses most of the energy on branches that are in the light. I try and do the final thin before they stretch, but almost always thin again just after.
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
@calicocalyx - Thanks for that great explanation, I'll start doing that right away.
Do you remove some of the smaller lower branches, or just leaves?
Do you remove some of the smaller lower branches, or just leaves?
calicocalyx
Well-Known Member
Focus on the branches. Lots of opinions on defoliation, but I like to leave the leaves at least until well into flower, mainly take them for airflow so that the inside of the plant can dry out. Also if your plant is hungry it will steal from those older leaves so I like to have a buffer in case something were to happen. Think of the canopy as a sphere, but the north side is higher because it doesn't get as much light. Now on a finished plant, everything that is approximately 15 inches or more from that outer edge, is not worth keeping IMO. Depends on strain really. Inside you would have more of a flat horizontal canopy but outdoors it's spherical. Look at the bottoms and see what isn't going to make it out to get light and the ones that are, prune off everything on the branch except that outer tip. At least that's how I do it. It has taken experience to show me what should stay or go, but still 90% of questionable branches usually get cut later on.
Here is a shot of my bubblegum, south is to the right. This is actually just before my last thinning. Right now you would see some dappled light int he middle of the plant. I'll get some shots of thinned plants maybe tomorrow.
Here is a shot of my bubblegum, south is to the right. This is actually just before my last thinning. Right now you would see some dappled light int he middle of the plant. I'll get some shots of thinned plants maybe tomorrow.
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Humanrob
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the clarification. I'll probably do a version of what you are doing. My outdoor is a lot like an indoor, in that 90% of the sun they get is directly overhead (they only get sun from about noon to 6pm), which is why I've sort of been using various kinds of fencing to spread them out. But other than the final shape, all the concepts apply.
Speaking of fencing, is the outer wire to contain the plant, or keep animals from eating it?
Speaking of fencing, is the outer wire to contain the plant, or keep animals from eating it?
calicocalyx
Well-Known Member
Oh yeah, forgot about your lighting. Still though, only the outer 15 inches or so, will be getting any light so try and keep up with the growth. The cages are to hold the plant as they should end up 2 to 4 times the size they are now, depending on how soon they flower. That bubblegum will definitely be end up close to 4 times the size of that pic.
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
I hope you'll post some pictures along the way, or at least when they are done. I'd love to see how you train them through the fence. I might try that next year, now that I'm getting a feel for what my yard can produce.
You mention the bubblegum could quadruple in size, if my plants were to even triple in size at this point, I'd be fuk'd -- I just don't have the room. But with my light restrictions I'm hoping they won't grow that much. I wish I could force them to 12/12, but I'll be traveling too much to be able to keep to the schedule.
And that looks like a beautiful piece of property you have to work with, some day I'll get out of suburbia again.
calicocalyx
Well-Known Member
Precisely because of your lack of light, they will stretch more trying to find it. I have a thread going right now and about to post more pics. I'm in the middle of spreading my lower pad, but the tractor over heated and Ill resume later.
http://rollitup.org/t/calicos-dozen-ish.871294/
http://rollitup.org/t/calicos-dozen-ish.871294/
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
I tried to mimic what you're doing with the cages, but the local Wilco only sells fencing with 4"x4" openings (which they call "goat fencing") in huge rolls for $300, and I only need to wrap one plant. So I'm using 4"x2", and its a thinner gauge so I'll just cut some space open so that I can reach in to continue thinning and trimming. I took a wide sprawling Chemdawg that (for my purposes) didn't need any trimming and condensed it while supporting it with a fence, and now it needs a lot of trimming. This is definitely the early part of the learning curve, being my first outdoor and dealing with limited space.
I am getting some stretch, since these went in the third week in April I was hoping that it might be a pre-flower stretch, but I think that might be wishful thinking. This morning I put in another layer of fence/scrog to try and spread them out some more, since I'm going to run out of vertical room eventually. Luckily the current path of the sun hits these plants for almost two hours in the morning, which makes up for the fact that my wife's grapes are starting to shade them! Oh well, peaceable kingdom and all that.
calicocalyx
Well-Known Member
looking good! You should be proud man. I wish I had pics of my first time outdoor, yours blows mine away 
. Remember the outside 15 inches of canopy are where your buds are, everything else not reaching light or just not quite in the light, should be cut. Keep spreading.
. Remember the outside 15 inches of canopy are where your buds are, everything else not reaching light or just not quite in the light, should be cut. Keep spreading.
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
Thanks bro, you've been very helpful along the way.looking good! You should be proud man. I wish I had pics of my first time outdoor, yours blows mine away
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
I continue to get much denser and fuller growth than I had anticipated, considering the limited sunlight the yard gets. Here's a quick pic of the Alien OG, which is starting to produce super-thick leaf clusters...
And oddly, now that I think of it, while the Alien has the densest foliage of any of my plants, it is also ironically positioned to get the least direct sunlight. Go figya.
And oddly, now that I think of it, while the Alien has the densest foliage of any of my plants, it is also ironically positioned to get the least direct sunlight. Go figya.
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Humanrob
Well-Known Member
Limited sunlight was my initial concern, and turned out to be a non-issue. My understanding with Oregon outdoor (west of the Cascades) is that its pretty essential to have a way to cover them when the fall rains come, so both of my planting areas have some sort of way to enclose them. Since at inception I was expecting to have stretchy lanky heavily scrogged plants, I did not plan for a huge amount of vertical space...
So limited sunlight is not the problem, and limited space looks like it will be. As an example, this structure is about 5' at the edges, and 7' at the peak. These plants have not started to stretch yet. I've done a lot of training and trimming, but I suppose I should have been more aggressive.
Being that this is a learning experience, and considering all the possible plagues (bugs, mold, theft), I've kept my expectations very low and continued my indoor through the summer to ensure meds. Also, I have four good sized outdoor plants at this point (approximately 5 feet tall and 4 feet wide each), and if I clear 4 ounces a piece (or in any combination reach 16 ounces total), I'll be fine -- so quantity is not really an issue, although of course quality would be nice.
I'm not sure what my options are at this point, but so far my ability to anticipate what will happen next has not been my Super Power. I did start to put some chicken wire up, to try and hold the plants away from the plastic in case condensation forms when the temperatures start to drop. All things considered, its all good. I'll just keep going and keep learning, and know better for next year.
So limited sunlight is not the problem, and limited space looks like it will be. As an example, this structure is about 5' at the edges, and 7' at the peak. These plants have not started to stretch yet. I've done a lot of training and trimming, but I suppose I should have been more aggressive.
Being that this is a learning experience, and considering all the possible plagues (bugs, mold, theft), I've kept my expectations very low and continued my indoor through the summer to ensure meds. Also, I have four good sized outdoor plants at this point (approximately 5 feet tall and 4 feet wide each), and if I clear 4 ounces a piece (or in any combination reach 16 ounces total), I'll be fine -- so quantity is not really an issue, although of course quality would be nice.
I'm not sure what my options are at this point, but so far my ability to anticipate what will happen next has not been my Super Power. I did start to put some chicken wire up, to try and hold the plants away from the plastic in case condensation forms when the temperatures start to drop. All things considered, its all good. I'll just keep going and keep learning, and know better for next year.
calicocalyx
Well-Known Member
looking good man! I'd thin it some more, but I'm always saying that. Because it has such thick growth, alot of those smaller shoots down near the crotches of the branches won't make it out to light cause of the bigger ones above. Also the very center of the plant should get some more thinning a little higher up. Nice job though. Make it a point to keep checking those stems with all this cool wet weather, look up those skirts and be on the watch for fuzzy black/gray patches, look at old wounds/cuts, that's where the stem mold likes to start. I didn't mean for that to sound as dirty as it did.
Humanrob
Well-Known Member
Thanks man, I need all the help I can get. That particular plant -- the Alien OG -- is the biggest leaf and densest foliage of the four that I have. I've been trimming in waves, it's probably more stressful for the plant, but every few weeks I go through and take a bunch off. I plan to do a thorough trim mid-September before the moisture comes and after the buds have established. So far its still hot and dry where I am (east Multnomah), so I don't think moisture is a problem yet. I definitely am keeping an eye on it though, pretty much daily.looking good man! I'd thin it some more, but I'm always saying that. Because it has such thick growth, alot of those smaller shoots down near the crotches of the branches won't make it out to light cause of the bigger ones above. Also the very center of the plant should get some more thinning a little higher up. Nice job though. Make it a point to keep checking those stems with all this cool wet weather, look up those skirts and be on the watch for fuzzy black/gray patches, look at old wounds/cuts, that's where the stem mold likes to start. I didn't mean for that to sound as dirty as it did.
As far as trimming in order to slow lower/inner larfy buds and encourage larger top buds, I'm not concerned with that aspect. If all goes well, I'll have way more than I know what to do with. If all goes poorly, those larfy buds might be all I have left. It's all good, thanks again for the great information.