Super Soil & LED grow problems

[Justin_GC]

Hello all - After looking and looking and trying a few things on my own I have decided to post here asking for mercy and your help. This is my first grow. Within the past two weeks my clones have started to show signs of problems on the leaves. Everything was going great and then I upgraded to a larger tent and doubled the LED's and now I have been battling issues for the past week. Below you will find all of my grow info including what I started with, and what I have now in which the issues started, could be coincidence on setup.

Plants = 3 clones from cloner market in Seattle (Sherbet, Cinex, Platinum G13)
Tent = Started with 3x1.5x3, currently 4x2x7
Lights = started with 1x Mars Hydro Reflector 96x3w, currently I have two in the tent
Soil = SensiSci Organics; Sensi Soil Premium & Sensi Lite Premium (http://sensisci.com/our-soils/)
Pots = Started with 2 gallon soft pots (1/2 Super soil/ topped with lite soil), currently in 3 gallon soft pots (100% super soil in addition to whatever was in the pot prior to transplant.)
Water = Seattle tap water PH 7 out of the faucet
Additional Nutes = None due to super soil & their recommendation of water only
Grow Start Date: 6/19/15 8:30PM
Temp range: 71-80, avg 74 with 1 day of 80
Rel. Humidity range: 41-68, avg 55 with 1 day of 41%

Notes:
Moved into larger tent with additional LED light on 7/13. On 7/17 started to notice some yellowing and light leave turn first on the Platinum G13 and then a day or so later on both of the plants.

When I transplanted into 3 Gallon pots I trimmed off all the bad leaves on all 3 but since then new have popped up. I also noticed the roots where a little bound to the bottom of all 3 pots, but but not to the sides so I think this was OK. Also when I transplanted I did not add any Sensi Lite only the full organic super soil.

I did realize I had the LED lights MUCH too low on 7/18 (man says min 2', I had at 1.5' if that)), and corrected that by raising both lights and doing a scrog.

As you can see from the attached images I am battling some kind of issue. The soil manufacture says only water is needed and would only need to add Calcium & Magnesium if using Reverse Osmosis water which I am not (link above next to soil is actually to the manufacture soil info page.) I hope I have provided enough information and look forward to any help, tips, and advice! Happy growing all!

 

[King Arthur]

have you been giving them enough magnesium? I have to feed mine (magnesium) I use epsom salts or I notice a decline in its health.

 

[Justin_GC]

Thanks for the respons!

I have not given them any extra nutes due to the soil maker saying only add water unless using reverse osmosis water which I am not.

So you think it could be a magnesium deficiency? I just looked that up and sounds like it could be. I also read that major of the time it's a Ph issue but my soil maker says no need to Ph treat the water. Also the test strips I have show it to be about 7.0 maybe it could be a bit off and be too high, those light shades of greens seem very similar to me.

 

[hyroot]

First off 3 gal is too small for super soil. You need 10 gals minimum.

How long was the soil mix cooked for? I bet it wasn't cooked long enough. So all the nutes are not available.

Try top dressing worm castings and compost. That will help speed up tge breaking down process.

 

[Sunny Organics]

First off 3 gal is too small for super soil. You need 10 gals minimum.

How long was the soil mix cooked for? I bet it wasn't cooked long enough. So all the nutes are not available.

Try top dressing worm castings and compost. That will help speed up tge breaking down process.

Im finding out that my 5 gallons are way too small for sure for super soil as well ( im using the fat shorter 5 gallons ).... my Sour D is hella burning up and they were the fast growers, the rest are loving it but i feel there will be problems there too soon. on week 5 out of 10ish.

And as for this thread, definitely a mix of deficiencies. Sucks, i feel you. HEY there's always the next run haha.

 

[polishpollack]

Justin, please take photos in white light only. can't determine color in led lighting. right now your leaves are looking pretty dark green which usually mean too much fertilizer. you'd think that something called supersoil would have everything plants need.

 

[Justin_GC]

OK so my the soil I am using states 3# - 25# so that is why I am using 3 now. I will go bigger next time, so thank you for that tip.

I think it is a Mag deficiency for sure, I had forgotten that using LED's you will need to supplement extra Mag and Cal for some reason. I am going to look into the exact reason so I know, but I found multiple references even with those using my same LED manufacture that claim this.

For that reason I picked up some CALMAG tonight at my local hydro shop in SoDo Seattle and it was perfect timing as my ladies needed a good watering tonight. I hope over the next few days things start to look better.

Also @polishpollack sorry about that, I should have thought of that. They do look so much better without the LED on. I have attached a few shots without the LED on and only the CFL's I had around.

 

[Yodaweed]

They look burned

 

[polishpollack]

it can a good idea with supersoils to get them moist and let them sit for a while to let bacteria in the soil grow and break the nutrients down to a level that plants can absorb. otherwise you can have the appearance of low nute uptake, which is kind of what I see in your pics. I don't know if the calmag will help but giving it is the only way to find out. did the soil happen to come with instructions? right now let's just see what the calmag does and go from there.

 

[Justin_GC]

it can a good idea with supersoils to get them moist and let them sit for a while to let bacteria in the soil grow and break the nutrients down to a level that plants can absorb. otherwise you can have the appearance of low nute uptake, which is kind of what I see in your pics. I don't know if the calmag will help but giving it is the only way to find out. did the soil happen to come with instructions? right now let's just see what the calmag does and go from there.

Ahh I did not know that, I just put the soil in the pot and soaked it, then added my clone and did the same when I put them into the 3gal pots.

The only instructions on the bag are "Sensi Soil fills the bottom 20-70% of the final pot. Use Sensi Lite or other quality nutrient rich based soil and just add water" also says "No PH Adjusting Necessary" and " Once in final pot plain water only until harvest" Which is what I have exactly been doing so far until I added the calmag last night.

Someone on the the reddit post I also made said I really did not have Super Soil but only an organic soil mix. From the ingredients it sounds to me like super soil to me.

Sensi Soil Premium Water Only Living Soil
INGREDIENTS:
Coconut Coir Fiber, Coarse Sphagnum Peat moss, Premium Worm Castings, Bokashi, Whole Cane Sugar, Dolomite Lime (for pH adjustment), Yucca (natural wetting agent) and Fertilizer
0.5-1-0.1
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Total Nitrogen (N) 0.5%
0.45% Water Insoluble Nitrogen
0.05% Nitrate Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 1%
Soluble Potash (K2O) 0.1%
Calcium (Ca) 1.5%
Magnesium (Mg) 0.25%
Sulfur 0.6%
Iron (Fe) 0.25%
Derived from:
Fish Bone Meal, Blood Meal, Bat Guano, Seabird Guano, Alfalfa Meal, Kelp Meal, Langbeinite, Magnesium Sulfate, Volcanic Ash, Glacial Rock Dust. Green Sand, Oyster Shell, Dolomite Lime
*DEM LUSH ROOTS 840 premium mycorrhizae
From http://sensisci.com/our-soils

 

[Justin_GC]

They look burned

I thought that too at first, however I couldn't imagine how that could be when they were perfect for a few weeks under the one LED in the smaller tent. Hopefully it is a calmag thing.

 

[Zheol]

my current grow is supersoil in 2 gallon fabric pots been doing t this way for a few years now with great results check my sig I also mix my own supersoil its a variation on subcools recipe

 

[polishpollack]

I think that soil is a little low in NPK. I think if I were you, I'd get a fert and try it, like maybe dynagrow 7-9-5 at a grow shop. just one half teaspoon in a gallon of water should do it.

 

[Justin_GC]

I think that soil is a little low in NPK. I think if I were you, I'd get a fert and try it, like maybe dynagrow 7-9-5 at a grow shop. just one half teaspoon in a gallon of water should do it.

Oh really, I currently have General Organics BioThrive Grow 4-3-3. Maybe I will add in some next watering in addition to the calmag, especially if I am not seeing any improvement before then.

Do you know of any guidelines of what is generally good levels to have? I might need to pick up a grow book or two. Ive heard good things about books from Jorge Cervantes I think it was.

 

[ElfoodStampo]

Your pH is off and I would guess by the way the plant is growing its being over watered.
this is what my current LED grow looks like

 

[polishpollack]

I don't see how the pH can be off when we don't know what the soil pH is. It's possible to water with 7.0 pH water and have a great grow. It looks like that space is too small because when they grow, they will get considerably bigger, provided they grow right. That fert you have should be fine. don't overdo it. give the soil time to dry out. roots need oxygen when comes from the air. the only way this happens is to let the soil dry out. you really don't need to worry about soil pH unless you're concerned about over ferting. People focus on pH too much. get the fert right and pH will take care of itself.

 

[Sunny Organics]

Your pH is off and I would guess by the way the plant is growing its being over watered.
this is what my current LED grow looks like
View attachment 3466315

stop before i go out and spend 1.2k on LEDs..... beautiful man... beautiful...

 

[polishpollack]

the books by Jorge Cervantes are excellent to read. there are many youtube videos too. however, growing in soil ain't so hard. there's just some important things to know. there's a lot of misinformation on the web so getting one of his books might be a good idea if you want to keep at it. I've learned a little here and there from different sources.

 

[ElfoodStampo]

I don't see how the pH can be off when we don't know what the soil pH is. It's possible to water with 7.0 pH water and have a great grow. It looks like that space is too small because when they grow, they will get considerably bigger, provided they grow right. That fert you have should be fine. don't overdo it. give the soil time to dry out. roots need oxygen when comes from the air. the only way this happens is to let the soil dry out. you really don't need to worry about soil pH unless you're concerned about over ferting. People focus on pH too much. get the fert right and pH will take care of itself.

When leaves start to discolor and die all over the plant it is a pH issue. if you see problems with new growth its a nutrient issue. The reason you can water with 7pH water is the soil system acts as a buffer for the plant.( also perfection is a point of view. so your idea of a great grow might be mediocre to others). This isn't the case when growing in water. Your wrong about not being concerned with pH, adding base nutrients will always provide for higher pH. if you understand how to feed properly you CAN control pH but to tell someone it doesn't matter is a disservice.

 

[ElfoodStampo]

stop before i go out and spend 1.2k on LEDs..... beautiful man... beautiful...

Your funny
Its not that expensive. go spend 300 bucks on a light and you'll be happy with the results.