the murder of sandra bland

UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
prepare yourself for the right wing "smear a dead black person" machine to come along once this picks up coverage in the national news.

the right has yet to meet an innocent dead black person that they are unwilling to smear.
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
I stand corrected. I have always been under the impression that you have to be placed under arrest in order to be given this order.

My driver's license expired over a year ago and I didn't bother renewing it. I gave my car to my mother and I don't drive my old VWs.

I will say this though, cops have always been extremely polite and respectful toward me. I'm a white male.
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You have to assume you are under arrest, Cops use this gray area to abuse your rights
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
no you don't.

until they say you are under arrest and why, you are not under arrest and may assert that fact.
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Remember this phrase.
" Am I under arrest, can I leave now"


The United States Supreme Court has made clear on a number of occasions that you are “seized” when a reasonable person would not feel free to leave. In this case, even though the stop is supposed to be over, the police officer still has your identification, which you are not going to leave without. On top of that, he has asked you to come with him to his car and indicated that you will not get your identification back until you answer some questions. So, you would not feel free to leave and thus you are still seized. However, because the purpose of the stop (the jaywalking ticket) has been completed, you are no longer “stopped.” When you are “seized” but not “stopped,” legally speaking there is only one other option – arrest.
Most people, even police officers, do not understand the point this example makes. Many folks (including some police officers) think a person is “arrested” when the officer puts the cuffs on them and says what TV cops say, “You’re under arrest for the crime of something or other. You have the right to remain silent, etc.” In fact, the lines between being involved in a consensual questioning session, being stopped, and being arrested are much blurrier and harder to figure out than TV makes them seem. In this example, because the officer has specifically conditioned the return of your identification on you answering questions about the recent assault and, in addition, has ordered you to come with him, there’s really no doubt that he is intending to detain you beyond the scope of the jaywalking stop. Thus the most reasonable conclusion at this point is that you have been arrested on suspicion of assault.

http://www.columbuscriminaldefenseattorney.com/2012/05/02/how-do-you-know-if-youre-under-arrest-police-interaction-part-xiv/
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Remember this phrase.
" Am I under arrest, can I leave now"


The United States Supreme Court has made clear on a number of occasions that you are “seized” when a reasonable person would not feel free to leave. In this case, even though the stop is supposed to be over, the police officer still has your identification, which you are not going to leave without. On top of that, he has asked you to come with him to his car and indicated that you will not get your identification back until you answer some questions. So, you would not feel free to leave and thus you are still seized. However, because the purpose of the stop (the jaywalking ticket) has been completed, you are no longer “stopped.” When you are “seized” but not “stopped,” legally speaking there is only one other option – arrest.
Most people, even police officers, do not understand the point this example makes. Many folks (including some police officers) think a person is “arrested” when the officer puts the cuffs on them and says what TV cops say, “You’re under arrest for the crime of something or other. You have the right to remain silent, etc.” In fact, the lines between being involved in a consensual questioning session, being stopped, and being arrested are much blurrier and harder to figure out than TV makes them seem. In this example, because the officer has specifically conditioned the return of your identification on you answering questions about the recent assault and, in addition, has ordered you to come with him, there’s really no doubt that he is intending to detain you beyond the scope of the jaywalking stop. Thus the most reasonable conclusion at this point is that you have been arrested on suspicion of assault.

http://www.columbuscriminaldefenseattorney.com/2012/05/02/how-do-you-know-if-youre-under-arrest-police-interaction-part-xiv/
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"am i under arrest?" is fine and probably more respectful, but "i am not under arrest" works too.

assert your rights.
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
"am i under arrest?" is fine and probably more respectful, but "i am not under arrest" works too.

assert your rights.
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So you get my point about them not telling you, you are under arrest But in actuality you are?
Phrase I have used is
Am I under arrest, am I free to leave now?
As to the cops showing up at my house. I will never come outside to talk. I can talk to them thru the screen door That is locked. No matter how much they beg me to come outside. The answer is "am I under arrest? Then I will stay inside my house.
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
Good luck with being belligerent with Law Enforcement Officers guys' I know who is going to win.....every time. It's like stepping out in front of a moving bus because your in the crosswalk & you have the right too.....OK o_O
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
doublejj said:
Good luck with being belligerent with Law Enforcement Officers guys' I know who is going to win.....every time. It's like stepping out in front of a moving bus because your in the crosswalk & you have the right too.....OK o_O
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There are times you can be belligerent. A traffic stop is not one of them
 
ricky1lung

ricky1lung

Well-Known Member
I'd buy a gro pro for the idiot who listens to UB just so I could watch the beating. Hey UB! You want a free go pro to fit on the helmet you surely wear?





RaWr Bucky
 
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ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
no, assume you are not under arrest. don't just assume it, assert it.

"officer, i am not under arrest. may i have my license back so that i may leave?"
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Go for it.
IN a traffic stop. You are being detained. Assume you are under arrest.
A cop asks you out of the car it is a legal order.
the cop in this incident needs to be fired. Unfortunatly everything he did was legal
 
doublejj

doublejj

Well-Known Member
ChesusRice said:
Go for it.
IN a traffic stop. You are being detained. Assume you are under arrest.
A cop asks you out of the car it is a legal order.
the cop in this incident needs to be fired. Unfortunatly everything he did was legal
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He's in a union, so he needs counseling & further training first. And probably a new probation period.....
 
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