COB efficiency Spreadsheets

marosa

marosa

Active Member
SupraSPL said:
Probably better to repost this here. With driver costs taken into account this is how the Vero18 stacks up. More efficiency = less heat to get the same job done along with some electrical savings.

It seems there are no perfect-match drivers for running Vero29s hard. The closest thing is probably Mean Well HLN-80H-36, puts out 2.55A but ~$40 ea. When you take driver cost into account it changes the picture. HLG-185H drivers $64 each. From lowest cost/PAR W to highest:

(5) Vero13 4000K @ 1.05A = 182W
33.2% efficient
60.4 PAR W
$36 + $64
$1.66/PAR W

(10) Vero10 4000K @ 700mA = 197W
32.4% efficient
63.8 PAR W
$44 + $64
$1.69/PAR W

(4) Vero18 4000K @ 1.4A = 168W
38% efficient
64 PAR W
$50 + $64
$1.78/PAR W

(1) Vero29 4000K @ 2.55A = 98W
39% efficient
38.2 PAR W
$28 + $40
$1.78/PAR W

(6) Vero18 4000K @ 1.05A = 184W
40.6% efficient
75 PAR W
$75 + $64
$1.85/PAR W

(4) Vero29 4000K @ 1.4A = 200W
44% efficient
88 PAR W
$113 + $64
$2.01/PAR W

(4) CXB3070 3000K AD @ 1.4A = 200W
48% efficient
96 PAR W
$150 + $64
$2.24/PAR W

(4) CXB3590 3500K CD @ 1.4A = 196W
56.2% efficient
110 PAR W
$190 + $64
$2.31/PAR W

So it looks like the Vero10/13 don't save much $ and sacrifice a lot of efficiency. The Vero 18 and 29 setups seem like good compromise for value and efficiency. If you want to prioritize efficiency for heat reasons or if you have very high electrical costs where you live, might be worth paying the extra for CXB3070 or waiting for the CXB3590 3500K CDs to land.
Click to expand...
Hi,
how do you power this configuration

(4) Vero29 4000K @ 1.4A = 200W
44% efficient
88 PAR W
$113 + $64
$2.01/PAR W

would be nice to have a link for the driver

awesome thread by the way
 
littlejacob

littlejacob

Well-Known Member
Bonjour
Sorry for the bad answer...
So is that mean that 6 X3590 will go on a hlg-185-700???
I still have a lot to learn!
Have a great day★
 
nogod_

nogod_

Well-Known Member
Download the data sheet for the driver and find the max voltage for the one you want to use.

Divide by the voltage of the cob you want to use at your chosen current.

Round down to the nearest whole number.

Rinse. Repeat.

littlejacob said:
Bonjour
Sorry for the bad answer...
So is that mean that 6 X3590 will go on a hlg-185-700???
I still have a lot to learn!
Have a great day★
Click to expand...
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
What driver would be good to use on cxb3590 to do ~ 65-75watts ? There will be 8 total in this fixture. Also will artic 11 plus work for cxb3590?
 
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robincnn

robincnn

Well-Known Member
Last edited:
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
robincnn said:
We use this thread for mostly COB efficiency spreadsheets. We just love those

HLG-240H-36A is a wrong driver. Please post power supply related questions at this thread to get faster and better response. It is sticky thread:weed:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/diy-leds-how-to-power-them.801554/page-84
I am not sure about ur hestsink question. Heatsink questions welcomed on previous sticky thread or here
https://www.rollitup.org/t/heatsinks-for-diy-led-lamps.851907/
:peace: good luck
Click to expand...
Had two browsers open I meant to post these questions here.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-cob-bar-project.874955/page-7
 
EfficientWatt

EfficientWatt

Well-Known Member
Hi Supra,

(quote is from a51 thread, but I didn't want to go off topic on there ..)

How did you get PAR watts for the 3500K, and do you have some magic numbers for them ? (LER ?)

As far as I know, we don't have a relative spectrum graph or anything very useful .. I'd love to be proved wrong tho!

Thanks !

SupraSPL said:
Tj 50C "typical"
CXB3590 3500K CD @ 700mA (23W) = 207lm/W = $47.50 ea = $3.25/PAR W
CXA3590 5000K DB @ 350mA (24W) = 209lm/W = 35.50 ea = $2.31/PAR W
Click to expand...
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
Going back to Mr Flux CXA Analysis thread, I thought it was convenient and helpful that the new CXA 2700K-5000K COB LERs were very close to each other. Others such as Alesh and SDS have come to similar LER numbers after analyzing the graphs. Cree provided us with some data from their CXA2540, 325 LER for the 3000K 80 CRi 321 LER for the 2700K. Mr Flux revised his numbers from the original post so it lines up like this:

2700K 80 CRi 321 LER
3000K 80 CRi 325 LER
4000K 70 CRi 323 LER
5000K 70 CRi 324 LER

Based on that, I think 324 is a close estimate for the CXB3590 3500K LER. My spreadsheet used 325 to estimate on the lower side of efficiency. Very small difference, probably larger than our margin of error so I think we are in the ballpark on LER.

One part of the CXB3590 spreadsheet that was hard to figure, the current/temp droop factor running them at 23W ea. The CXA3590 PDF gives us that data but ther CXB3590 cut the graph short. So I applied the CXA factor to the CXB data to try and get close. It should not be too hard to test the actual current and temp droop for the CXB3590 at 23W and 49W to see if the real life measurements agree with the spreadsheet estimate.
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
Has anybody found an SPD for the cree 3590 27K ?

I reviewed the charts in this thread, but can't seem to answer one question, sorry aging stoner brain :bigjoint: How does the Vero29 stack up against the 3590 efficiency wise? Considering the higher cost for the 3590 and the need for a cob holder, is the extra $$ worth it ?

I'm targeting a slightly under driven setup, driving around 1.4ma or even as low as 1ma.
 
EfficientWatt

EfficientWatt

Well-Known Member
Thanks again Supra, precious info as usual :D

I'm also concerned about cree's product characterizaton tool being off. Any news on that story ?
Wish all the data clicked together, like it should. I like it like that :)

SupraSPL said:
Cree provided us with some data from their CXA2540, 325 LER for the 3000K 80 CRi 321 LER for the 2700K. Mr Flux revised his numbers from the original post so it lines up like this:

2700K 80 CRi 321 LER
3000K 80 CRi 325 LER
4000K 70 CRi 323 LER
5000K 70 CRi 324 LER

Based on that, I think 324 is a close estimate for the CXB3590 3500K LER. My spreadsheet used 325 to estimate on the lower side of efficiency. Very small difference, probably larger than our margin of error so I think we are in the ballpark on LER.
Click to expand...

PurpleBuz said:
I'm targeting a slightly under driven setup, driving around 1.4ma or even as low as 1ma.
Click to expand...

Slightly ? 0.001A wonder what the efficiency would be ...

so about 30+ cobs per watt, now that's gotta be efficient electricity wise, but not so much in a economical sense :lol::lol: I can picture a 100W panel with 3000 cobs, no need for heatsinks either 8-)

Just kidding, I know you meant amps, not miliamps :mrgreen:
 
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SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
PurpleBuz said:
Has anybody found an SPD for the cree 3590 27K ?
Click to expand...
Alesh and I think SDS explored that

alesh said:
From what is known about LEDs we can assume:
2700K has the same SPD as 3000K with smaller blue peak.
3500K has the same SPD as 4000K with smaller blue peak.
Check out this data sheet from Samsung. I believe that the SPD's could be very similar for Veros.
Click to expand...

PurpleBuz said:
How does the Vero29 stack up against the 3590 efficiency wise? Considering the higher cost for the 3590 and the need for a cob holder, is the extra $$ worth it ? I'm targeting a slightly under driven setup, driving around 1.4ma or even as low as 1ma.
Click to expand...
If you can get top bin CXB3590s for a fair price, on paper they strongly outperform Vero29 V2.0 in cost and efficiency, exaggerated even more if you run them soft. You can see this by matching the $/PAR W. For example the 3590 @ 49W cost $1.73/PAR W and gives us 56.34% efficiency. The Vero at 38W cost $1.67/PAR W and gives us 44.75% efficiency. The Vero does tend to have better availability. True the CXB COB holder can add cost but the Vero pico ezmate adds cost as well, neither are required to get the job done.


3590 vs Vero.png
 
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Meinolf

Meinolf

Well-Known Member
marosa said:
Hi,
how do you power this configuration

(4) Vero29 4000K @ 1.4A = 200W
44% efficient
88 PAR W
$113 + $64
$2.01/PAR W

would be nice to have a link for the driver

awesome thread by the way
Click to expand...
nogod_ said:
Meanwell hlg-185h-c1400
Click to expand...
Has anyone besides Supra tried this configuration? It seems like the max Vf of the driver is exceeded by 4 Vero29 in series at 1400mA. What will happen? Does the driver go into limp mode? Does the driver scale down the If, if so, to what extent? Looking forward to having this finally answered.
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
littlejacob said:
Bonjour
@SupraSPL is cob efficiency based on L/W?
Have a nice day
Click to expand...
Yes that is correct. Unfortunately the manufacturers are not giving us the output in mW although that may change in the future.

Meinolf said:
Has anyone besides Supra tried this configuration? It seems like the max Vf of the driver is exceeded by 4 Vero29 in series at 1400mA. What will happen? Does the driver go into limp mode? Does the driver scale down the If, if so, to what extent? Looking forward to having this finally answered.
Click to expand...
I have not tested that configuration although there are some who have. The Vf of the COBs will vary slightly and the max voltage of the driver will also vary slightly. If the voltage load is a bit too high for the driver it will reduce the current until it matches. Then as the COBs warm up and Vf drops, the driver will increase the current as high as it can.
 
Meinolf

Meinolf

Well-Known Member
littlejacob said:
Bonjour
I believe it is on the hlg-185-1050 that you can put 4, and 3 on the 1400mA...
Have a great day ★
Click to expand...
Yes, well, no. You can put 5 V29 on 185H-C1050, I have done that. I was always wondering if 4 V29 would work on 185H-C1400. Same goes for 3 V29 on 120H-C1400. Apparently it does, although I haven't seen it yet.
 
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