TheQuantumMechanic
Active Member
Just asking.
Anyone water from the bottom?
- Thread starter TheQuantumMechanic
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TheQuantumMechanic
Active Member
Nice.
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
I used to water from the bottom, but I don't do it any more. When you water, part of what you are doing is helping to dissolve the salts that build up from feeding them. This is why it is not a good idea to water from the bottom. When you water from the top until you have a bit of runoff, that runoff has the salt in it. If you are watering from the bottom, the salt does not runoff as you pool it in the bottom with the water.
Also, from the top or the bottom will not effect whether you have fungus gnats or not. The soil being too wet brings them on. Letting the soil dry out is the best way to not have gnats.
Also, from the top or the bottom will not effect whether you have fungus gnats or not. The soil being too wet brings them on. Letting the soil dry out is the best way to not have gnats.
Pappamoon
Member
I water from the bottom. I ran into a fungus gnat issue and I wasn't keeping the plants too wet, I was just watering or feeding every few days as I was supposed to. I solve the build up issue caused by feeding from the bottom by giving the plants a good flushing every few weeks or so. I would rather have to give a flushing then to deal with those damn gnats.
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
If you have gnats, you are keeping the soil too wet. Period. Top or bottom has nothing to do with gnats. When it comes to feeding and watering, your schedule has nothing to do with the plant's needs. If you are letting the soil dry out (as you should be since the roots need oxygen), then you wont have any issues with gnats. If you do have a problem with gnats (as many people do when the plant is too small for the pot), water and feed less and make sure the soil is totally dry before you give them either again. Some new growers try to have a schedule that they follow thinking it is a good idea. Actually this is more detrimental than anything else. Don't tell the plant, listen for the plant to tell you. If you follow that advice, you will never have an issue with gnats again.
splifchris
Well-Known Member
I do both.. In flower I feed my girls 2 litres of mix every 2/3 days. every other feed goes in from the base, or if I let them dry out then Ill give a feed from the top and if there is no run off Ill give another jug to the tray and check back 2 hours later to make sure its not sitting in water.. if it is i remove it.
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
I am not sure what you mean. Better or worse in your instance is a manor of a misconstrued perspective. Let me ask you this. Why would you work to build up the nutrients in the soil just flush them out? Say it out loud and it will seem as foolish as the idea really is. Watering until they start to runoff is all you need to do in order to help the plant with the buildup of salts (adding molasses is another great way to do it). The plant will do what it needs to do. This isn't my approach to growing, it is nature. They take what they need. Pooling your water from below keeps the lower portion of the root system with an excess of salt from the process. Does that sound like a good idea to you? Use a water wand from the top and when it starts to runoff, stop. Your plants will thank you. That isn't to say that you won't need to water gradually. I usually give them all ten seconds from the wand and them go back to the first plant again (I have anywhere from 25-50 at any given time). Depending on how dry they are or how big the root balls are, you may need to do a few cycles of 10-20 seconds so the water is absorbed and doesn't just run off the top.
Watering from the bottom is not a good idea and it is detrimental towards the plant's root system. Flushing all the good things out f the soil just to be stubborn about being wrong is not a good idea. Mother nature has been watering from above since the beginning of time with a solid success rate. Mother knows best.
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
Bottom watering is great for when you let the soil get too dry but it does not provide the same level of air exchange as a top down gravitational water feed. I don't know if the difference is material to results. I see wick system tomato growers banging em out so I tend to think it is not a material difference. It would be a fun experiment to try and I bet someone here already has.
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
I did a side by side test with 16 plants. I have a pretty good idea as to what I am talking about and I am not just talking out my ass. 8 had litter box trays they were watered from, the other 8 got the wand. Needless to say, there was no comparison. The plants that got a chance to relieve themselves of the salts they didn't need did better than the plants that were forced to suck them back up. Don't take my word for it, try it out for yourself. Or, take my word for it.
Bugeye
Well-Known Member
I'll take your word for it. I don't have one way of watering and I use a few different methods depending on what I'm trying to do at any particular time.I did a side by side test with 16 plants. I have a pretty good idea as to what I am talking about and I am not just talking out my ass. 8 had litter box trays they were watered from, the other 8 got the wand. Needless to say, there was no comparison. The plants that got a chance to relieve themselves of the salts they didn't need did better than the plants that were forced to suck them back up. Don't take my word for it, try it out for yourself. Or, take my word for it.
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
Get yourself a 35 gallon container for water, a submersible pump, and a water wand and be done with it. It isn't in this picture, but I also have an aquarium air stone in there running at all times with four ports so I can add a stone to my feeding bucket while I am making up the mixture. Also, I put the pump right in the feed bucket (about 10 gallons of water per feeding) with the wand open and on full to mix it with the airstone pumping too. All of these little things that I do for them add up to a large reward. I have been doing this a long time and have done experiments with every grow. I fuck with some of them, I pamper others. It is easy to solve problems with your plants when you are doing it deliberately. When you encounter them, not so much. If you are prepared for the solution when issues arise through you own prior controlled experimentation, then you will be well equipped to tackle anything. This is why I usually only respond in the beginner area. I have done the experiments and like to help people. The 20 years I have been growing doesn't hurt either.
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unwine99
Well-Known Member
Watering from the bottom is not detrimental to the roots, that's ridiculous. If someone was achieving poor results in a "side-by-side", it's because they weren't doing it right.
Here are some of the terrible results one should prepare for when watering from the bottom:
Here are some of the terrible results one should prepare for when watering from the bottom:
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
Not terrible, could be better. That is all I said. They would be bigger if you watered from the top. By 20-30% bigger. Isn't that enough to consider that you could be doing them more justice? Think about it. Tuck your ego away and realize there is a better way.
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear as it seems as though what I stated was not understood. It is not detrimental in the instance, but rather on the whole. Water alone is not as good as water with unsulphured blackstrap molasses. That is the idea. Each small step amounts to a large return (like as previously stated). I have grown plants that look like yours and I now grow plants that are superior from 20+ years of growing experience. You can use smoke signals to call your shorty, or you can use a smart phone. Both will get the job done, but one represents progress and one represents regress. Ahead or behind the curve, where do you wanna be?
Unwine, I even love the Home Depot pots, but you will learn to do better. Time will tell you the same thing I am, so it makes little difference if you believe me now, or learn it later. It will come to pass regardless.
P.S. cut back on their nitrogen intake. That will return their color back to normal and you wont see those over-defined ridges to the leaves.
Unwine, I even love the Home Depot pots, but you will learn to do better. Time will tell you the same thing I am, so it makes little difference if you believe me now, or learn it later. It will come to pass regardless.
P.S. cut back on their nitrogen intake. That will return their color back to normal and you wont see those over-defined ridges to the leaves.
unwine99
Well-Known Member
I'm going to use my imagination for a moment here and pretend that I'm a complete idiot (and no it's not that hard to imagine), the blithering kind, and the kind who leaves his mouth open for no reason -- ah f$ck it, let's get all Bob Ross with this -- let's throw some drool in there too for good measure. Ok, so let's pretend that I'm a blithering, mouth breathing, drooling idiot, who actually believes that you conducted a side-by-side and I'm definitely not someone who believes that you're just a typical RIU-ass-clown-know-it-all who, in a failed attempt to deceive, pulls the age old "I've done a side-by-side" card (see threads on flushing, defoliation, advanced nutrients, etc.) when they, for reasons probably linked to some sort of inferiority complex, are desperately/pathetically trying to validate their way of doing things when they have nothing else to do so.
Remember, we're pretending that I actually want to hear what you have to say here. How would watering from the top correlate to thirty percent more roots in two weeks than the plant in the second picture from my post above? And how could moistening the medium from the bottom, be in any way detrimental if you're not overfeeding and there is nothing to build up?
Okay Okay, that's enough of that. You're not fooling anyone with all this pretentious "you will learn to do better" and "I have 20+ years experience" crap. You are see through -- you are a phony -- you are a habitual RIU spammer who I've caught on multiple occasions talking out of his ass and the only reason you "only respond in the beginner area" is because they are the only people who will listen to your drivel and not call you out on it.
Remember, we're pretending that I actually want to hear what you have to say here. How would watering from the top correlate to thirty percent more roots in two weeks than the plant in the second picture from my post above? And how could moistening the medium from the bottom, be in any way detrimental if you're not overfeeding and there is nothing to build up?
Okay Okay, that's enough of that. You're not fooling anyone with all this pretentious "you will learn to do better" and "I have 20+ years experience" crap. You are see through -- you are a phony -- you are a habitual RIU spammer who I've caught on multiple occasions talking out of his ass and the only reason you "only respond in the beginner area" is because they are the only people who will listen to your drivel and not call you out on it.
Mad_Prophessor
Well-Known Member
Holy fragile ego unwine. I didn't realize you were so sensitive.
I have forgotten more about growing than you have learned. You have never caught me doing anything except siting my own experiments and experience. You wish kiddo.
There is not one commercial grower I know that waters from the bottom. I had two 4x8 tents one with cat box bases for watering and one that I water gradually watered from the top. The YIELDS (not the roots your moron) were 20-30% higher on the plants that had a chance to let the salts runoff. Try it yourself instead of talking out your ass.
You can attempt to call me out on anything you can. I dare you. I will just make you look like more the crybaby bitch that you are. I have helped a ton of growers and will continue to help more. How about you? And yes, your plants need a better grower than you. You are too ignorant and close minded to get your plants anywhere close to my level.
I have forgotten more about growing than you have learned. You have never caught me doing anything except siting my own experiments and experience. You wish kiddo.
There is not one commercial grower I know that waters from the bottom. I had two 4x8 tents one with cat box bases for watering and one that I water gradually watered from the top. The YIELDS (not the roots your moron) were 20-30% higher on the plants that had a chance to let the salts runoff. Try it yourself instead of talking out your ass.
You can attempt to call me out on anything you can. I dare you. I will just make you look like more the crybaby bitch that you are. I have helped a ton of growers and will continue to help more. How about you? And yes, your plants need a better grower than you. You are too ignorant and close minded to get your plants anywhere close to my level.