Cannabis Heavy Syrup

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Sample B

sample b.jpg

Machine:
High Performance Liquid Chromatography Method: UN 2009

CBD:
0.00 CBDA: 0.00 CBC: 0.00 CBG: 0.00 CBN: 0.05 CBGA: 0.00

THCA:
0.00 CBDV: 0.00 ∆9-THC: 3.46 ∆8-THC: 0.00 THCV: 0.00
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Using the Iron Labs site to compare the syrup with other edibles that also received the High Performance Liquid Chromatography I see that the results for the syrup show a higher concentration of delta9, in some cases almost double.
 
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SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Found this: http://analytical360.com/cannabis-analysis-laboratory/interpreting-your-laboratory-data.

"Interpreting Your Laboratory Data

HPLC Potency Profile
Using High Performance Liquid Chromatography (HPLC), the cannabinoid potency profile gives you the concentration of cannabinoids expressed in percentage of weight per weight (% wt/wt). This is the weight of the cannabinoid divided by the total plant weight. Edibles, tinctures, and topicals are displayed in milligrams of cannabinoids per sample serving size (mg/serving) so patients can better judge their proper dosage levels and compare different medicated products with different serving sizes."
The test results are showing total mg. If they used the entire sample this means that the 7.5 grams of sample contained 8.41mg of delta9 THC.

For edibles 10mg is often considered 1 serving so a 2tsp dose is within in those parameters.
 
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Stomaching that syrup musta been worse then drinkn the medicine kind as a kid. Drinks are hard for a beginner edible chef in my opinion. I would experiment with baked goods and focus on a really good technique where you completly understand why it works.
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Stomaching that syrup musta been worse then drinkn the medicine kind as a kid.
This is syrup for mixing, not dosing like cough medicine.

So far I've mixed with the following:
  • green tea (iced and hot)
  • black tea (iced and hot)
  • chamomile tea (iced and hot)
  • lemonade
  • flavored sparkling water (home-made soda)
  • Juicy Juice
One of the things that I like about this is how the beverage impacts the high. The green and black tea have a much different effect than chamomile, with the chamomile accenting the relaxed part of a high while the caffeine takes it in an energized direction.

If this is used in a mixed drink with an alcohol or coffee base the downer and upper will be even more exaggerated.
 
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SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Wow that would take alot
20mg of THC gets me where I need to be and 40mg is too much. Three tablespoons of this will hit about 120mg, which would be the amount to make a cup of coffee sweet or the amount in a margarita.

But yeah, if you want to blast off with multiple hundreds there are better ways to do that or you could have 9 tbsp while you drink three cups of coffee or three mojitos. I bet that could get interesting real quick.
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Hmm, any tests done to prove that this is even a slightly efficient method?
My estimate is that one batch is only hitting 40% efficiency.

I have been able to re-use the trim for a second batch of syrup that equals the first. So that is netting about 80% of the THC. Still not a stellar extract % but for what I'm looking to do with my trim it gets the job done.

Pros: A little over an hour. Clean and simple. No chance of blowing things up. Alcohol free. Tasty.
Cons: Lower efficiency. Produces a much higher volume of product for a lower amount of THC. Storage.
 

s9p

Active Member
20mg of THC gets me where I need to be and 40mg is too much. Three tablespoons of this will hit about 120mg, which would be the amount to make a cup of coffee sweet or the amount in a margarita.

But yeah, if you want to blast off with multiple hundreds there are better ways to do that or you could have 9 tbsp while you drink three cups of coffee or three mojitos. I bet that could get interesting real quick.
Those doses seem low to me though I think I may just be more resistant than most to edibles. Last time I had them I had ~70mg of zoots drops, 20mg of hydrocodone (finished off a prescription from oral surgery earlier that week) and still had to be hitting the shiatsu oil I had in a pg/vg mix in my mod to get to the point I felt noticably high from the medibles side. Maybe all the butter I have made and eaten has built up a heavy tolerance, but as a 25 y/o 130 lb male 70mg seemed like it should hit me harder.

edit: I also hadn't had edibles in about 5 or 6 months before taking those zoots, and since smoking doesn't cause cross tolerance I'm not sure why I require such heavy doeses. The person who took the other ~30mg of the 100 mg bottle started freaking out and said it felt like their body was being ripped in half so I know it wasn't just some bunk product from the rec shops lol.
 

vitamin_green_inc

Well-Known Member
Those doses seem low to me though I think I may just be more resistant than most to edibles. Last time I had them I had ~70mg of zoots drops, 20mg of hydrocodone (finished off a prescription from oral surgery earlier that week) and still had to be hitting the shiatsu oil I had in a pg/vg mix in my mod to get to the point I felt noticably high from the medibles side. Maybe all the butter I have made and eaten has built up a heavy tolerance, but as a 25 y/o 130 lb male 70mg seemed like it should hit me harder.

edit: I also hadn't had edibles in about 5 or 6 months before taking those zoots, and since smoking doesn't cause cross tolerance I'm not sure why I require such heavy doeses. The person who took the other ~30mg of the 100 mg bottle started freaking out and said it felt like their body was being ripped in half so I know it wasn't just some bunk product from the rec shops lol.
How do you know smoking doesn't cause ️️cross tolerances? If a drug test is done you would pop positive if you had eaten a brownie or smoked a joint....
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
http://www.zootology.com/products/zootdrops

... I had ~70mg of zoots drops, 20mg of hydrocodone (finished off a prescription from oral surgery earlier that week) and still had to be hitting the shiatsu oil I had in a pg/vg mix in my mod to get to the point I felt noticably high from the medibles side.

The person who took the other ~30mg of the 100 mg bottle started freaking out and said it felt like their body was being ripped in half so I know it wasn't just some bunk product from the rec shops lol.
Thanks for the zoot name-drop. It looks like those drops are marketed
as 10mg per serving.

My experience is that we need to take it easy and find our edibles tolerance. Some of my friends can hit 100mg and say they aren't feeling it, others think that 10mg is too much. I counsel people to start low and work up to a higher dose.
 

s9p

Active Member
How do you know smoking doesn't cause ️️cross tolerances? If a drug test is done you would pop positive if you had eaten a brownie or smoked a joint....
The RoA is completely different and as a result it has a totally different method of absorption. Smoking causes the thc to directly pass the blood brain barrier whereas ingesting breaks it down and distributes it directly into your blood supply. You will test dirty from either because the metabolites for the THC compound will be present regardless of how you take it since they're still going to break it down despite a different action.

http://www.zootology.com/products/zootdrops



Thanks for the zoot name-drop. It looks like those drops are marketed
as 10mg per serving.

My experience is that we need to take it easy and find our edibles tolerance. Some of my friends can hit 100mg and say they aren't feeling it, others think that 10mg is too much. I counsel people to start low and work up to a higher dose.
Yeah, a friend that doesn't like to smoke wanted to try some edibles so we picked up a 100mg mio style container from Green Leaf Spokane (a rec shop) for I think $40 on sale. I honestly feel like it's a waste buying rec edibles for me since unless I make some really potent medible base they don't give me much effects. I started high because of extensive medible experiences. Had 30mg in chocolates the only other time I've gotten it in a rec store and it felt like I was on the edge of getting a weed high but couldn't quite break through into being high so I figured fuck it and ate all 70 mg.
 

vitamin_green_inc

Well-Known Member
So if you have THC molecules in your system that wouldn't increase your tolerance? I don't understand how once it's in your system being stored and used by your body it's any different and your answer just tels me how it breaks down initially which I agree with, but the end product is the same?
 

s9p

Active Member
The difference is that it's the RoA that changes how it is handled. Direct blood brain barrier passage gets it directly put into the brain which it gets used to the quick kick you get and learns how to counter that (your brain is smarter than you realize). When you ingest decarb'd thc it breaks down as though it is food (as it very well is!) and instead your brain gets fed a gradually increasing flow of blood containing thc combined with nutrients. As a result, the delivery system is taking no breaks and your brain isn't used to handling that and has to figure out a new way of using and disposing of the thc as well as separating it from the other nutrients. That constant flow is both handled and felt differently as it's essentially a different high.

Your brain is designed by nature to pick up on patterns and learn how to respond to those situations so when it's thrown a curveball it kinda panics and has to scramble to figure out what to do after not experiencing this problem within several weeks. That's also why when people lose functionality of a part of their brain or any of the sensory peripherals it has to interpret, the brain will naturally rewire itself to take in other senses differently in order to fill the gap.
 

qwizoking

Well-Known Member
lol

anyway..yea if by cross tolerance you just mean tolerance then yes.
cross tolerance would more apply to spice. it doesnt even have to be a synthetic cannabinoid, so long as it hits the receptor a cross tolerance will develop.

edibles will ruin your tolerance faster than smoking
 

SwankyDank

Well-Known Member
Found more information about making this syrup:

Summary: There is scientific and industry proof that sucrose is highly effective for creating stable oil/water emulsions.

The food and beverage industry uses different products to create emulsions. An emulsion is a stable combination of incompatible solids and liquids held in suspension. The most familiar is probably salad dressing, which uses emulsifiers to combine oil, water, and vinegar but there are many other everyday products that use emulsions to deliver hydrophobic fats and oils held in suspension in water. The key is using an emulsifier.

1. http://www.brenntag.ru/en/downloads/Food/TB_Emulsifiers_FNFN201109.pdf

"In commercial food emulsifiers the hydrophilic part can consist of glycerol, sorbitol, sucrose, propylene glycol or polyglycerol." page 2.

Notice that one of these hydrophilic parts is sucrose and on page 4 there is this:

Screenshot from 2015-08-08 11:46:27.png

This confirms that one type of emulsifier (surfectant) can be produced using fats, oils, or fatty acids and sucrose. These two combine to create sucrose esters (referred to as E473).

Most interesting to me is that of all the listed emulsifiers in the linked paper, sucrose esters are the most flexible in application:

"Emulsifiers can be characterized by the Hydrophilic Lipophilic Balance. The balance is measured on molecular weight and is an indication of the solubility of the emulsifier. The HLB scale varies between 0 and 20.

An emulsifier with a low HLB value is more soluble in oil and promotes water-in-oil emulsions.
An emulsifier with a high HLB value is more soluble in water and promotes oil-in-water emulsions.

The HLB value is a somewhat theoretical value, it only considers water and oil, and food systems are more complicated. But the HLB value of an emulsifier can be used as an indication about its possible use. An indication of performance based on HLB value is given below"

Screenshot from 2015-08-08 11:51:08.png

The emulsifier with the highest potential for creating oil/water emulsions is sucrose ester. This is what is being made in the cannabis syrup, an oil/water emulsion. Sucrose esters are more effective then lecithins or glycerin.​

2. PROCESSING REQUIREMENTS

Summary: Use the proper temperature and adequate mixing to achieve the highest stability and highest extract efficiency.

"Optimal emulsifier functionality is determined by the correct food processing conditions. The most important factors are temperature and amount of energy applied in mixing or shearing. Emulsifiers need to be heated above their melting temperature to become functional. High speed mixing or homogenisation is needed to decrease droplet or air bubble size and get the emulsifiers distributed on the surface of the interface. Mixing is also needed to hydrate the emulsifier." page 7
This next link has more about processing:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0268005X11000397

It is only the abstract but the information provides the basics needed to improve this recipe. Here are selected quotes:

"This study provides important information for optimizing the application of sucrose monoesters to form colloidal dispersions in food and beverage products."

"This study aimed to establish conditions where stable microemulsions, nanoemulsions or emulsions could be fabricated using SMP as a surfactant and lemon oil as an oil phase."

"Blending/heating was needed to produce microemulsions or emulsions, whereas blending/heating/homogenization was needed to produce nanoemulsions."

"The impact of environmental stresses (pH, ionic strength, temperature) on the functional performance of nanoemulsions and microemulsions was examined. Relatively stable nanoemulsions could be formed at pH 6 and 7 and stable microemulsions at pH 5 and 6, but extensive particle growth/aggregation occurred at lower and higher pH values."

"Microemulsions formed gels at low temperatures (5 °C), were stable at ambient temperatures (23 °C), and exhibited particle growth at elevated temperatures (40 °C)."

"Nanoemulsions were stable at refrigerator (5 °C) and ambient (23 °C) temperatures, but exhibited coalescence at elevated temperatures (40 °C)."
 
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