chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
check out mine
DEFOLIATION . . . . a hands on approach!
- Thread starter Semper.Fi
- Start date
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Yes lets forget flushing! Everyone should forget "flushing"!
Polyploidy from defoliation??? WRONG , FALSE, BULL SHIT!
Polyploidy results by inhibiting chromosome segregation at cell division during meiosis. That means that half the resulting cells will have NO chromosomes and the other half have double the chromosomes! You can defoliate till you die and it WILL NOT cause Polyploidy! It has to be done on a chemical level!
The chemical that causes Polyploidy in plants from being treated by it is Colchicine. IF, you are dumb enough to attempt to use it...Be advised that your plants are now TOXIC to use in ANY way.....You must breed that out and the offspring will not contain the Colchicine......You should also note that the offspring from a treated (polyploid) plant and a "normal" plant will now be a "tetraploid", A Tetraploid plant now crossed with a normal plant again will result in a plant (triploid) that is unable to produce seeds (this is where you get seedless melons and grapes) it will be sterile! So the resulting plant from the cross is now termed a "triploidy" plant.
Your spreading BS again!
This what a polyploid Daisy looks like vs. normal
Here is a Cannabis polyploid flowering.
HACK
Doc
thanks to reddit for the Daisy pic and jonas@diesel for the MM poly pic.....
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
It's NOT TRUE polyploidy !!!!
Why do you take nonscientific conclusions as fact?
Compiled and posted by Robert Connel Clark
Polyploidy
Polyploidy is the condition of multiple sets of chromosomes within one cell. Cannabis has 20 chromosomes in the vegetative diploid (2n) condition. Triploid (3n) and tetraploid (4n) individuals have three or four sets of chromosomes and are termed polyploids. It is believed that the haploid condition of 10 chromosomes was likely derived by reduction from a higher (polyploid) ancestral number (Lewis, W. H. 1980). Polyploidy has not been shown to occur naturally in Cannabis; however, it may be induced artificially with colchicine treatments. Colchicine is a poisonous compound extracted from the roots of certain Colchicum species; it inhibits chromosome segregation to daughter cells and cell wall formation, resulting in larger than average daughter cells with multiple chromosome sets. The studies of H. E. Warmke et al. (1942-1944) seem to indicate that colchicine raised drug levels in Cannabis. It is unfortunate that Warmke was unaware of the actual psychoactive ingredients of Cannabis and was therefore unable to extract THC. His crude acetone extract and archaic techniques of bioassay using killifish and small freshwater crustaceans are far from conclusive. He was, however, able to produce both triploid and tetraploid strains of Cannabis with up to twice the potency of dip bid strains (in their ability to kill small aquatic organisms). The aim of his research was to "produce a strain of hemp with materially reduced marijuana content" and his results indicated that polyploidy raised the potency of Cannabis without any apparent increase in fiber quality or yield.
Warmke's work with polyploids shed light on the nature of sexual determination in Cannabis. He also illustrated that potency is genetically determined by creating a lower potency strain of hemp through selective breeding with low potency parents.
More recent research by A. I. Zhatov (1979) with fiber Cannabis showed that some economically valuable traits such as fiber quantity may be improved through polyploidy. Polyploids require more water and are usually more sensitive to changes in environment. Vegetative growth cycles are extended by up to 30-40% in polyploids. An extended vegetative period could delay the flowering of polyploid drug strains and interfere with the formation of floral clusters. It would be difficult to determine if cannabinoid levels had been raised by polyploidy if polyploid plants were not able to mature fully in the favorable part of the season when cannabinoid production is promoted by plentiful light and warm temperatures. Greenhouses and artificial lighting can be used to extend the season and test polyploid strains.
The height of tetraploid (4n) Cannabis in these experiments often exceeded the height of the original diploid plants by 25-30%. Tetraploids were intensely colored, with dark green leaves and stems and a well developed gross phenotype. Increased height and vigorous growth, as a rule, vanish in subsequent generations. Tetraploid plants often revert back to the diploid condition, making it difficult to support tetraploid populations. Frequent tests are performed to determine if ploidy is changing.
Triploid (3n) strains were formed with great difficulty by crossing artificially created tetraploids (4n) with dip bids (2n). Triploids proved to be inferior to both diploids and tetraploids in many cases.
De Pasquale et al. (1979) conducted experiments with Cannabis which was treated with 0.25% and 0.50% solutions of colchicine at the primary meristem seven days after generation. Treated plants were slightly taller and possessed slightly larger leaves than the controls, Anomalies in leaf growth occurred in 20% and 39%, respectively, of the surviving treated plants. In the first group (0.25%) cannabinoid levels were highest in the plants without anomalies, and in the second group (0.50%) cannabinoid levels were highest in plants with anomalies, Overall, treated plants showed a 166-250% increase in THC with respect to controls and a decrease of CBD (30-33%) and CBN (39-65%). CBD (cannabidiol) and CBN (cannabinol) are cannabinoids involved in the biosynthesis and degradation of THC. THC levels in the control plants were very low (less than 1%). Possibly colchicine or the resulting polyploidy interferes with cannabinoid biogenesis to favor THC. In treated plants with deformed leaf lamina, 90% of the cells are tetraploid (4n 40) and 10% diploid (2n 20). In treated plants without deformed lamina a few cells are tetraploid and the remainder are triploid or diploid.
The transformation of diploid plants to the tetraploid level inevitably results in the formation of a few plants with an unbalanced set of chromosomes (2n + 1, 2n - 1, etc.). These plants are called aneuploids. Aneuploids are inferior to polyploids in every economic respect. Aneuploid Cannabis is characterized by extremely small seeds. The weight of 1,000 seeds ranges from 7 to 9 grams (1/4 to 1/3 ounce). Under natural conditions diploid plants do not have such small seeds and average 14-19 grams (1/2-2/3 ounce) per 1,000 (Zhatov 1979).
Once again, little emphasis has been placed on the relationship between flower or resin production and polyploidy. Further research to determine the effect of polyploidy on these and other economically valuable traits of Cannabis is needed.
Colchicine is sold by laboratory supply houses, and breeders have used it to induce polyploidy in Cannabis. However, colchicine is poisonous, so special care is exercised by the breeder in any use of it. Many clandestine cultivators have started polyploid strains with colchicine. Except for changes in leaf shape and phyllotaxy, no out standing characteristics have developed in these strains and potency seems unaffected. However, none of the strains have been examined to determine if they are actually polyploid or if they were merely treated with colchicine to no effect. Seed treatment is the most effective and safest way to apply colchicine. * In this way, the entire plant growing from a colchicine-treated seed could be polyploid and if any colchicine exists at the end of the growing season the amount would be infinitesimal. Colchicine is nearly always lethal to Cannabis seeds, and in the treatment there is a very fine line between polyploidy and death. In other words, if 100 viable seeds are treated with colchicine and 40 of them germinate it is unlikely that the treatment induced polyploidy in any of the survivors. On the other hand, if 1,000 viable treated seeds give rise to 3 seedlings, the chances are better that they are polyploid since the treatment killed all of the seeds but those three. It is still necessary to determine if the offspring are actually polyploid by microscopic examination.
The work of Menzel (1964) presents us with a crude map of the chromosomes of Cannabis, Chromosomes 2-6 and 9 are distinguished by the length of each arm. Chromosome 1 is distinguished by a large knob on one end and a dark chromomere 1 micron from the knob. Chromosome 7 is extremely short and dense, and chromosome 8 is assumed to be the sex chromosome. In the future, chromosome *The word "safest" is used here as a relative term. Coichicine has received recent media attention as a dangerous poison and while these accounts are probably a bit too lurid, the real dangers of exposure to coichicine have not been fully researched. The possibility of bodily harm exists and this is multiplied when breeders inexperienced in handling toxins use colchicine. Seed treatment might be safer than spraying a grown plant but the safest method of all is to not use colchicine. mapping will enable us to picture the location of the genes influencing the phenotype of Cannabis. This will enable geneticists to determine and manipulate the important characteristics contained in the gene pool. For each trait the number of genes in control will be known, which chromosomes carry them, and where they are located along those chromosomes.
YOUR A HACK!
Doc
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
I build my own soils numb nuts
I research the net for actual papers on the subjects at hand,,,,I study actual textbooks on subjects...Hell Mr "Ed and Jorge say it so it must be true."
I played with Polyploid plants and making them in the late 70's.....YOU CAN NOT MAKE ACTUAL POLYPLOIDISM BY DEFOLIATION!!!!
HACK
I research the net for actual papers on the subjects at hand,,,,I study actual textbooks on subjects...Hell Mr "Ed and Jorge say it so it must be true."
I played with Polyploid plants and making them in the late 70's.....YOU CAN NOT MAKE ACTUAL POLYPLOIDISM BY DEFOLIATION!!!!
HACK
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chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
wow, so pulling leaves causes a genetic mutation, LOL, New one on me, BUT hey, if it's in a cannabis book, must be true, cause they also say to flush
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
if you were a plant and trying to grow and someone keeps SEVERELY pulling off your leaves, you might change your chromosomes too.
Dude, its a known fact! Its been written about in many many horticulture books and proven to be caused from excessive defoliation. Point is defoliation works and can cause crazy yield increases especially when polyploidy comes into play. How much and when isnt known exactly but it is a matter of fact that it is real and what causes it.
Ive been defoliating plants for a long time. I will never ever not defoliate. The purposes it serves and increases in yields are real and it is written about in all cannabis grow books.
So is flushing. Both these subjects are argued and conversed extensively but the fact is that they work, they are practiced and implemented in almost every growers gardens. Its because they work. Simple as fact.
I got 2 plants right now stripped down to nothing but flowers on day 38. And guess what they are my biggest colas and will be my largest yielders of the bunch. I will have pictures and final weigh ins. All same strain same plants same room same food same everything. I will show and prove it works. Whether you wanna listen is up to you. Dont matter to me, but some people will appreciate it! Good day sir.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
have you noticed a difference in the past in defoling sativas vs indicas?
I dont run straight sativas. From what I do know they dont respond same way. You would have ask someone else regarding that matter i cant answer that myself sorry.
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
Mel is now a well known author and activist, as well as radio appearances and books he has written numerous articles for cannabis magazines worldwide. He also has a regular section on the website Stuff Stoners Like. Mel now actively campaigns against prohibition and his first book, Cannabis Cultivation has been in print for over ten years, being one of the top five best selling cultivation books ever written., Mel is an outspoken critic of the pharmaceutical industry and Government policies, particularly as two family members suffer from medical conditions that cannabis can alleviate; namely Multiple Sclerosis and Parkinson's syndrome.
rkymtnman
Well-Known Member
so you only have grown indicas or indica hybrids? is there a difference in defoling 100% indicas vs hybrids from what you have seen? or are the results about the same? any indica strains that did not like defoling?
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
chuck estevez
Well-Known Member
Have you seen ANYONE of these guys finish their defoil experiment? EVERY TIME they start out, then just seem to disappear half way thru. HMMMMM????????????????????????????????????????????????????
skunkd0c
Well-Known Member
Artificial inducement of polyploids through the inhibition of mitosis is routine in plant breeding. High temperatures above 40°C have been used to induce tetraploid and octoploid corn seedlings albeit with low success of 1.8% and 0.8% respectively (Randolph, 1932). Currently, chemical mitotic inhibitory agents such as colchicine or dinitroanilines are used to induce polyploidy in crop plants. A typical example is the production of tetraploid watermelon plants for the production of seedless triploid watermelon (Compton et al., 1996).
In addition, an uncommon mechanism of polyploid formation involves polyspermy where one egg is fertilized by several male nucleuses as commonly observed in orchids (Ramsey and Schemske,
http://plantbreeding.coe.uga.edu/index.php?title=5._Polyploidy
In addition, an uncommon mechanism of polyploid formation involves polyspermy where one egg is fertilized by several male nucleuses as commonly observed in orchids (Ramsey and Schemske,
http://plantbreeding.coe.uga.edu/index.php?title=5._Polyploidy
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
I've got people who come into the shop and want to "sell" me overages for the stores and you can smell the oils on the product!
I tell them that it needs to be tested by one of these lab's (pointing to a sign on the wall) and that if evidence of bugs or insecticides of any type are detected = No sale! I'm glad I have people running them for me.....Sometimes I hate the appointments they make for sellers with me.....VERY, VERY little gets bought that way!
The pat answer is " I don't have bugs/My shit don't get bugs or nothing on this!" Yeah right and the actual smell of Cinnamon, Rosemary, Thyme, and Clove don't give it away!
I tell them that it needs to be tested by one of these lab's (pointing to a sign on the wall) and that if evidence of bugs or insecticides of any type are detected = No sale! I'm glad I have people running them for me.....Sometimes I hate the appointments they make for sellers with me.....VERY, VERY little gets bought that way!
The pat answer is " I don't have bugs/My shit don't get bugs or nothing on this!" Yeah right and the actual smell of Cinnamon, Rosemary, Thyme, and Clove don't give it away!