Spidermite spray causing more damage than good, what's next?

[Dr. Who]

"Plus forbid may be killing the honeybees too..."

Nope! Forbid is NOT systemic and does not leave the plant via pollen like Neonictinoid poisons that ARE proven to cause CCD in bee's!
Over spray does not effect Bee's and there is now studies that say it does not effect fish or water borne creatures.

Just to point that out....

I respect your "No chem" view!
I too grow mostly organic.....But some years ago we got a mite problem that just wanted to continue (damn eastern movement of types of mites not originally known in this area) .....Got desperate and found Forbid to end the problem.....Done!
We DID research Forbid thoroughly before deciding to try it!!!
I simply try and give a solution to the problem that works from another prospective.....I supply the truth about Forbid by giving the science.....not given in a "label" generically mandated by the government....

Use what works for you.....If all else fails,,,Forbid will be there if you need it!

 

[Sick of Spider Mites]

So far the Monterrey Spray + Azamax has done very well in terms of not destroying my leaves at all. Thanks SSHZ - I am about to do my next spraying here in a few days, also taking some more clones and starting over on my few worst looking plants. I appreciate the kind help, I'll let you know how it works out, hopefully I won't need to pick up anything else with consistent maintenance spraying since I actually believe theres a mite infestation outside so no matter what I do my plants will continue getting infected. I'm in talks wit my family to remove the problem bushes I think that would be the best thing I could do, but for now I still spray them consistantly after the infestation is under control a bit more.

Thank you Dr. Who, but I must add, I'm truly confused on your method of removing mites completely and keeping them away "for good".

Please do me a favor and right out a easy to understand *short* guide on how to use this Forbid product. You keep saying you have given me all the information I need, but you really haven't, all I see is alot of copy and pasting to prove your point with SSHZ and then like 2 sentences with not much relevant information in regards to the actual usage of the product. Frankly it's too hard to read because it bounces between caps/no caps and is just mindless info on top of ranting.

Quote: "IF you want to KILL those mites and be DONE with it! Get the Forbid and use it at 8 drops per gallon.
Spray lightly on the top of the leaf surface's and wait 7-10 days and it's all over.......I would suggest you use a Pyth based mix to spray down your area and all it's surface's........Don't have to, but you may have a reinfestation in 18-20 days, from mites not in contact with your plants during that time......In other words cleaning your area is paramount to keeping them away!"

Do i need a pyth mix too or no? Should I mix them same bottle? Do I alternate between them? is it only for the surrounding surfaces in my tent or for the plant too? does pyth spray work much better than say a H2o2 spray or clorox spray? With the Forbid, 8 Drops per gallon of water? spray all leaves with great detail top and bottom, stems included? can I get the soil wet or should I avoid this? just one spray and thats it? No continued spraying a week later? What if I want to do maintenance sprays? How often? Same mixing dose? Do I need to worry about leaf die off? you said "no leaf die off" but that doesn't really help, do you keep lights off? water before hand? any type of system to it other than spray it to insure that I don't do damage?

See - you didn't give me what SSHZ gave me, I believe your first "contribution" to this thread was a snooty "OMG FOR THE LOVE A - USE FORBID" with zero actual info as to why this product is better than any other, or why I should use it.

I honestly have a hard time taking you seriously and wanting to take your advice since you have such a hard-on for proving to everyone that you are a "Master grower" on the internet. I am sure you grow great, I am sure alot of you do, but a true master grower knows he a master. He doesn't need to prove anything. A true master is humble about his skill.

I truly want to hear what you have to say, but only if you can get off your high horse lol. Alot of people would be much more receptive to what you have to say if you didn't act like you were higher than them, I can promise you that.

 

[MediBen]

So sprayed some monsters with FORBID last week and cleared up a problem that has lasted for months through many other treatments. These mites were AVID resistant after multiple sprays. They lived on through p-bombs. Organic treatments and "No spider mite" flora-mite, etc. I don't even bother with anymore cause they may work on a little indoor setup but in a greenhouse environment they don't even seem to make a difference. All of them, surprisingly, even something as strong as avid, the mites can build tolerances to through generations and keep coming back. They lived through everything until FORBID. So next I will bring in some predator mites to eat anything that could possibly be living around the greenhouse on dead plant matter, etc. and hopefully they won't come back. I wouldn't spray these kinds of things during flower, as most of it is out after a few weeks, under some conditions it can last longer than the "half-life", up to 57 days I believe (though this was in conditions noone should have in their grow room or greenhouse anyhow). But even at 57 days as long as it is before flower development I see no problems with using it. Was surprised how much less toxic it was compared to avid. Avid kills everthing while forbid really seems to be a more specified killer. Everything I read says it doesn't effect mammals. Says they put it all over mice and no cancer. I've read studies that have actually sprayed forbid onto predatory "cali mites" and it didn't kill them though many other predatory mites it did.

I also grow organic and don't like resorting to chemicals but mites are an exception they do way too much damage and need to die.

 

[SSHZ]

I see this thread is still alive and well.....I am back for a few new comments and suggestions. I have stopped using my previous suggested products for a number of reasons, i.e. cost, effectiveness, and damage to plants. I still believe my earlier suggestions work, but, but, but.......lets not be hasty.

Many of these mite products are "mite" specific, meaning they will only kill off certain types of mites. So, not all these mite killers will work on a problem grow. It may be necessary to identify the type of mites you have and make sure the products you are using will work. Did you know there are Red S.M., 2 Spotted S.M., European S.M., Spuce S.M., Pacific S.M., Strawberry S.M., and a few more not listed.

This is my new routine, costing all of $15 total and I believe it's more effective, costs less and leaves NO damage on plants, in veg OR in flowering. I begin by getting 2 of the Hot Shots No Pest Strips. These release a vapor slowly (I use 2 to increase the speed of the effectiveness). Normally I just shut down the room- plants can be in there or not) and seal the door well. Make sure you turn off the exhaust fans too. Let the vapor do it's thing- these will kill most every bug in the room. Exhaust the room before entering as a precaution, humans are not supposed to be exposed to the vapor for more than 4 hours. As a secondary precaution, I also have started using Dawn Ultra Dish Soap, 2 teaspoons per quart of water as my spray. This will kill every mite along with many of the other grow bugs we see i.e. gnats, whiteflies, ants, etc. The spray smothers them very effectively, and competes the kill in just a few minutes. You can then, if you wish, spray the plants down with plain water to remove any traces of dead bugs and any soapy residue. Check out some of the Dawn Ultra bug-killing videos on youtube!!!!! After viewing some of these, I switched and never looked back. This spray is very delute, and will not hurt your plants or buds. I'd say if in deep flowering, spray the plants down lighty just to be sure but I've smoked sprayed buds and didn't notice any taste, smell, etc. Again, 2 teaspoons of soap in a quart of water is very delute.

Good luck everyone............but with this new suggestion, you may not need any.

P.S. AND, as always, when spraying, turn your lights way down or off and use a small light to see while spraying. Leave lights off while the plants dry. This will reduce/eliminate any damage to leaves.

 

[CC Dobbs]

View attachment 3396078 View attachment 3396082 View attachment 3396081 Hello, How are you? Sorry to bother.

I am at the end of my ropes. I am literally about to throw in the towel on this growing thing because for the last year and a half.... nearly every single plant I have either becomes infested with spidermites and dies, no matter how hard I try to get them off of it.... or the plant dies due to the actual spider mite spray.

It happens so quick, it amazes me. These plants were full giant bushes a week ago, and now nearly half of their veg is gone, and the other half of leaves are now dying off with it, in the matter of 2 days.

I've washed every single plant I have, but a few are still dying, it has to be the spidermite spray as that's the only thing I've put on them in the last few days.. The first time I sprayed it caused one of my plants these exact same problems, I saved it by washing its leaves. Today I did the same to this other giant plant of mine, and it looks like its not going to make it at the rate it's leaves are dying.

My question is, if the fucking spray does more damage than good, and I can't seem to ever get rid of spidermites for longer than a month? WTF do I do? I'm all ears. This is enough to make me want to throw in the towel, you wait 6 months for a giant plant to be ready to flower, and it dies on you in less than a week.

I'm using "No Spider Mites" Spray, just sprayed it once generously, as directed on the back of the bottle. Nearly every time I use this spray, I see some leaf damage on the plants used it on, typically the plants that I feel are sicklier than others.

It seems fairly obvious that you are starting with infested plants and if this is the case than you are fucked from the beginning. If you can find or produce un-infected clones and clean you or even better break down and rebuild your room you can be successful..

 

[CC Dobbs]

Oh for the love of.......

FORBID 4F

BOOM DONE!

no leaf die off
not hard on plant

EBAY
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-ounce-Forbid-4F-miticide-Insecticide-kills-Mites-Whiteflies-eggs-ovacide-/261849089733?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cf76c06c5

Sir, this is a very strong systemic pesticide and may not be an appropriate suggestion for a person without the means to understand the dangers of mismanaging of this product.

 

[fandango]

Mite spray never hurt my plants?
try different sprays and take a leaf off the plant after a spray down...now take your micro lupe and look for movement...important to spray sunday,wednesday,saturday and so on.
The most powerful sauce is SNS217 but a small bottle runs 55.00 dollars

 

[BarnBuster]

I'm a believer in NPS as well. The dichlorvos vapor is heavier than air, so a fan is good to keep the vapor moving around the room. Also the strips aren't effective for very long so, IMO, I would use new for each outbreak.

 

[MrMeanGreen]

Sir, this is a very strong systemic pesticide and may not be an appropriate suggestion for a person without the means to understand the dangers of mismanaging of this product.

Electricity is dangerous shit if used wrong, as is a car and a gun, a knife and my little pony.

FORBID 4 is the only thing I have used that worked. I was plagued by the little bastards for over a year and i tried everything. This wiped em out for ever with 2 doses, eggs as well.

Very dangerous shit if used wrong, ignore the instructions at you and your customers peril.

 

[Dr. Who]

Sir, this is a very strong systemic pesticide and may not be an appropriate suggestion for a person without the means to understand the dangers of mismanaging of this product.

Mr. Dobbs
This is NOT a systemic pesticide! It is translaminar. It is not "very strong"........

Bayer Environmental Science has just announced the registration of a new miticide, based on a proprietary new chemistry with a unique mode of activity. The name of this new miticide is Forbid 4F, and its active ingredient is spiromesifin, a tetronic acid, which blocks fat synthesis so the mites dry out and die. This mode of activity, inhibiting lipid biosynthesis thus causing dessication (i.e., drying-out), is virtually the same as that of soaps and oils. That is, the MOA for Forbid 4F can be considered, for the sake of simplicity, to be MOA 6 as defined in papers elsewhere on this website, and in articles appearing in the Rose Society’s newsletter, Basal Breaks. This is great because MOA 6 has little or no potential for the development of resistance – an analogy[1] would be a flamethrower: you may miss some of your targets, but when they return they’ll be no less vulnerable to the flame.

Another feature of Forbid 4F is that, like Avid, it is translaminar. The active ingredient, spiromesifin, while not systemic (i.e., it does not move through the plant’s vascular system like, for example, Merit does), is absorbed by the plant’s leaves and will move from the tops of the leaves to the bottoms where the mites feed. This ability to move from the tops to bottoms of leaves significantly reduces the tedium of the spray process – while care should still be taken to cover the entire bush, rigorous spraying of the undersides of leaves should not be required. Moreover, according to Bayer, Forbid 4F controls mites at all life stages and offers an excellent residual of four to eight weeks for mites.

The label is regulated by the Fed. Precautions on labels are generic and misleading!
I suggest when investigating an insecticide, you try reading toxicology reports by universities FOR the states they get lic. in.....That's right. EACH state has to lic. an insecticide for use. NOT just the U.S. Government! These papers are available on line by googling for them..

I have this on my shelf.....I have not had to use it in 5 years.....It is, hands down, THE best solution to a problem if can't get it under control by other means! If you have 0 patience to try other means and you want the job DONE NOW...
Use Forbid....

Don't follow misconceptions on insecticides.....Read Tox reports and find the truth!

Doc

 

[Dr. Who]

Anyone concerned about toxicity of Forbid - Please read page 3 of this post. links given to Tox reports there...

Wow....Who dug this up? Oldie but a goodie!

Doc

 

[CC Dobbs]

Mr. Dobbs
This is NOT a systemic pesticide! It is translaminar. It is not "very strong"........

Bayer Environmental Science has just announced the registration of a new miticide, based on a proprietary new chemistry with a unique mode of activity. The name of this new miticide is Forbid 4F, and its active ingredient is spiromesifin, a tetronic acid, which blocks fat synthesis so the mites dry out and die. This mode of activity, inhibiting lipid biosynthesis thus causing dessication (i.e., drying-out), is virtually the same as that of soaps and oils. That is, the MOA for Forbid 4F can be considered, for the sake of simplicity, to be MOA 6 as defined in papers elsewhere on this website, and in articles appearing in the Rose Society’s newsletter, Basal Breaks. This is great because MOA 6 has little or no potential for the development of resistance – an analogy[1] would be a flamethrower: you may miss some of your targets, but when they return they’ll be no less vulnerable to the flame.

Another feature of Forbid 4F is that, like Avid, it is translaminar. The active ingredient, spiromesifin, while not systemic (i.e., it does not move through the plant’s vascular system like, for example, Merit does), is absorbed by the plant’s leaves and will move from the tops of the leaves to the bottoms where the mites feed. This ability to move from the tops to bottoms of leaves significantly reduces the tedium of the spray process – while care should still be taken to cover the entire bush, rigorous spraying of the undersides of leaves should not be required. Moreover, according to Bayer, Forbid 4F controls mites at all life stages and offers an excellent residual of four to eight weeks for mites.

The label is regulated by the Fed. Precautions on labels are generic and misleading!
I suggest when investigating an insecticide, you try reading toxicology reports by universities FOR the states they get lic. in.....That's right. EACH state has to lic. an insecticide for use. NOT just the U.S. Government! These papers are available on line by googling for them..

I have this on my shelf.....I have not had to use it in 5 years.....It is, hands down, THE best solution to a problem if can't get it under control by other means! If you have 0 patience to try other means and you want the job DONE NOW...
Use Forbid....

Don't follow misconceptions on insecticides.....Read Tox reports and find the truth!

Doc

Using a company's press release to explain a product is weak at best. It is sad to see you trying to sell the product to others when you lack the integrity to do so responsibly. Knowing how you think helps me to realize that you are a hack gardener and a good person to ignore when it comes to producing a safe product.

 

[CC Dobbs]

Anyone concerned about toxicity of Forbid - Please read page 3 of this post. links given to Tox reports there...

Wow....Who dug this up? Oldie but a goodie!

Doc

Do you work for the Bayer? Fucking shit-assed poser.

 

[SSHZ]

Quite honestly, I've used Forbid, Avid, and Floramite with limited success. All of these did some damage to my leaves, but they already had some damage by mite activity. They did kill back the mite population temporarily, but not for good. I know for sure if you have a small grow, it's WAYYYYYYYYYYY easier to get a handle on the infestation. A larger grow, lets say 12 or more plants, it becomes nearly impossible. I grow 24 full-size plants at a time, and it's tough to wipe them out entirely. Personally, after years of dealing with these buggers, I'd always try the less toxic products first like Mighty Wash, Liquid Lady Bug, Nuke Em, etc. But the least toxic and cheapest is far and away my suggested liquid dish detergent and no-pest strips.

These comments also remind me a Holy Grail Kush grow 3 grows back. Great pot but killer on the throat and lungs. I believe I used Forbid/Floramite on these plants and that greatly contributed to the harshness of the buds. Using mild (non-chemical) products eliminate any chance of that happening.

Lastly, mite killing is like Baskin Robbins. That's why they offer 21 different flavors. What works for one person might not work for others. Remember, I said many of these products are mite specific and may not work on your type of mite. Even Mighty Wash and products similar don't work on all mites. I've also been reading some people have success spraying coke soda on the leaves but have not tried that one yet.

 

[Don Geno]

Anyone hear of dipping there cutting in neem oil? Used for prevention

 

[Dr. Who]

Do you work for the Bayer? Fucking shit-assed poser.

LMFAO! That's from a page on the Tri-state rose society of Chattanooga web site!

http://www.chattanoogarose.org/spider mites.htm

Now how about you go back and read page 3 of this thread....

Sad, Try harder....

Quite honestly, I've used Forbid, Avid, and Floramite with limited success. All of these did some damage to my leaves, but they already had some damage by mite activity. They did kill back the mite population temporarily, but not for good. I know for sure if you have a small grow, it's WAYYYYYYYYYYY easier to get a handle on the infestation. A larger grow, lets say 12 or more plants, it becomes nearly impossible. I grow 24 full-size plants at a time, and it's tough to wipe them out entirely. Personally, after years of dealing with these buggers, I'd always try the less toxic products first like Mighty Wash, Liquid Lady Bug, Nuke Em, etc. But the least toxic and cheapest is far and away my suggested liquid dish detergent and no-pest strips.

These comments also remind me a Holy Grail Kush grow 3 grows back. Great pot but killer on the throat and lungs. I believe I used Forbid/Floramite on these plants and that greatly contributed to the harshness of the buds. Using mild (non-chemical) products eliminate any chance of that happening.

Lastly, mite killing is like Baskin Robbins. That's why they offer 21 different flavors. What works for one person might not work for others. Remember, I said many of these products are mite specific and may not work on your type of mite. Even Mighty Wash and products similar don't work on all mites. I've also been reading some people have success spraying coke soda on the leaves but have tried that one yet.

Wow, sorry you had a bad time with it!

I, nor any friends that have used it, had any plant problem with it.
Simply a light misting of the top of the plant surface and that's all....

While it most likely means nothing to you, Uncle Ben use's it too. Same thing - No problems.

We all had the same excellent results....

The only point I'm making is that here is an alternative that works and works when most others don't.

Please feel free to use what you like!

You Too Dobbs....No offense man! Sorry if you feel that way. I only tried to supply facts....not "bash" you OK? Play nice. I didn't name call...right?

Doc

 

[ZEN MASTER]

View attachment 3396078 View attachment 3396082 View attachment 3396081 Hello, How are you? Sorry to bother.

I am at the end of my ropes. I am literally about to throw in the towel on this growing thing because for the last year and a half.... nearly every single plant I have either becomes infested with spidermites and dies, no matter how hard I try to get them off of it.... or the plant dies due to the actual spider mite spray.

It happens so quick, it amazes me. These plants were full giant bushes a week ago, and now nearly half of their veg is gone, and the other half of leaves are now dying off with it, in the matter of 2 days.

I've washed every single plant I have, but a few are still dying, it has to be the spidermite spray as that's the only thing I've put on them in the last few days.. The first time I sprayed it caused one of my plants these exact same problems, I saved it by washing its leaves. Today I did the same to this other giant plant of mine, and it looks like its not going to make it at the rate it's leaves are dying.

My question is, if the fucking spray does more damage than good, and I can't seem to ever get rid of spidermites for longer than a month? WTF do I do? I'm all ears. This is enough to make me want to throw in the towel, you wait 6 months for a giant plant to be ready to flower, and it dies on you in less than a week.

I'm using "No Spider Mites" Spray, just sprayed it once generously, as directed on the back of the bottle. Nearly every time I use this spray, I see some leaf damage on the plants used it on, typically the plants that I feel are sicklier than others.

Hey man if you can get ahold of "Old Stage Green cleaner" I promise you it will work. I use a dillution of 4ml in a 16oz water bottle, last a long time. Find you a sprayer with the finest mist possible, and drench them, ONLY with the lights off. Or in another room in regular light. Reason being is because I'm not sure how the plants photosynthesize with it all over its leaves, plus the guy that makes it said it could potentially burn the leaves, under hid light. I use it in veg, if needed, and in flower in case i see any mites, only up until the last three weeks of bloom. Reason being is because it does contain a small amount of alcohol, so it "could be" bad for resin glands. I just dont take the chance. But like I said, if you have a break out in veg, and you use it one or two times, bro I promise anything else will just be a touch up when you see a few. Now this is just me ok, but even though Ive probably knocked the majority of mites down in veg with the spray, when I take them in the bloom room I hit the room with a Pro-Plus bomb on the beginning of week one, (and if its bad again at week four) and do touch ups with the green cleaner periodically, or dr doom in the green can its good up until about a week before harvest. Again with the green cleaner in bloom, not after you start see resin heads forming. Serious. Oh yea, the reason most pesticides or bombs fail is because, for the most part, when the spray hits the mite, it doesnt die immediately. So while its "dying" it starts to lay eggs which the pesticide cant kill. Thats why they recommend continous applications. But mos growers dont see any activity for a bit so they dont bomb three or four more times. And thats how the cycle continues. Because the lack of activity is only the eggs hatching and even more mites growing to the point that the can feast. Because each "dying" mite can lay up 8-20 eggs before they "die". Add on the eggs that were already laid, and buddy you got a problem. But this green cleaner, what it does is stick to the mite with corn and soybean oil. And then the soap and isopropyl alcohol dries them up in seconds, so no "dying", dead. And the eggs that were already laid that are spayed are also dried up. But you gotta drench it, at first. And after the first time, yo will be able to gauge how you need to use it. But if you are mindful of it in veg, and when cutting clones this stuff is all you will need. One more thing, best small sprayers or spray bottles ive found are at health food stores, reason being is because so people by minerals and such to be sprayed under their tounge so the droplets have to be as fine as possible, so they deliver a very fine mist. Well sorry to run on, but Ive went through it before. Remember, you can NEVER totally erradicate them, EVER. But you can control them to the point you dont see them. Peace bro, any questions hit me up.