Foxtail bud structure

[Hessam]

Hello guys,

I've seen foxtailing on many strains, from indica dominants to almost pure sativas and couldn't find a definite cause for this bud structure. Some say it's about genetics and more related to Haze crosses, some other say it's kind of a response to strong lighting. I've also heard that foxtailing is caused by bad nutrients or feeding schedule. What's your opinion? Should we like it or not? Is it a sign for us to look for a problem?

 

[Cpappa27]

If you have your temps, nutrients,co2 etc dialed in and everything is good then its just strain. Otherwise all of those could be reasons for foxtailing. Foxtailing looks cool I think.

 

[hells canyon genetics]

fox tailing is an Asian sativa trate and obviously its a dominate trate being its usually passed down through the genetics theres a fair amount of info out there about it it comes up in just about every breeding book I read

 

[thegreensurfer]

From what I understand it can be from high temps or poor light intensity....if we are ruling out the genetics.

 

[Hessam]

fox tailing is an Asian sativa trate and obviously its a dominate trate being its usually passed down through the genetics theres a fair amount of info out there about it it comes up in just about every breeding book I read

Asian? Then how about the Lambsbread? It's one of the strains that foxtails pretty often.

 

[Dr. Who]

All good answers!

On lighting (low) I find buds most likely will be fluffy and loose and have not really seen a plant foxtail due to low light.....

I've seen 100% Indica cross's foxtail like mad - particular pheno's that is.....(Barney's LSD) But I still felt it was heat related in that grow (not mine). It was in hydro and they used Hesi nutrients but, it was way hot in there lights on!!

Doc

 

[FranJan]

My little ol' 2¢

I never liked foxtailing. It's been explained to me that's it's a hormonal thing and it's basically a confused plant. Switching to 11/13 or 10/14 light cycles eliminated that behavior in strains I was growing like SLH, Tangerine Dream and Black Widow and I haven't seen a plant do it in my grow room since switching to those light cycles. At the same time strains like Blue Cheese, Magic Bud and a few others I ran never had any foxtailing issues running under 12/12, so there's the genetic thing most likely.

And for those who want to stick to 12/12 and have foxtailing, you could try running some 730nm LEDs at lights out for 15 to 20 minutes to get your ladies "asleep" faster and that will help the ladies get a longer night's grow going. Member @captainmorgan is flowering at 13/11 using this technique and I don't think he's having any foxtail issues.

And some say it's a temp thing too and getting certain strains cooler at lights out during flowering helps eliminate foxtailing. I do know I'm much more conscious of keeping the ladies in a better environment nowadays so making sure you've got the right environment going for that particular strain has gotta help keep foxtailing at bay.

With all that said I wouldn't doubt nutrients and lockouts have something to do with it to but again that's environment and genetics at play. Maybe in some cases, (strains), that's just the way the ball bounces .

 

[Cannabil]

Foxtailing is one of two things:

Either sativa dominant strain that is genetically pre disposed to grow in that manner. OR

If it isn't a sativa or hybrid that has those genetics to grow that way then you are having an issue with either HUMIDITY/TEMPS being too high. Or an improper balance of nutrients primarily phosphorus causing them to foxtail.

The reason the flowers foxtail in high temp high humidity is to open themselves up to release heat and moisture from inside the cola causing them to split and grow "foxtail" like growth patterns.

I have also seen people who abuse or incorrectly use a blossom booster high in P&K which can cause this too happen also. Either it was used too much or used at the wrong time when critical bud development was still under way. You dont want to use the PK additives until the last 2 weeks of nutrients. Primarily weeks 6-7-8 depending on variety for most common 8-9 week strains.

So foxtailing if it isnt genetics can tell you right away that something is either wrong with your environment or nutrient profile and or both. And is a definite and tell tale sign that something needs to be fixed in your garden (as long as it isnt strain dependent, which is what you want to rule out first). Only indicas I know that grow that way are Diesel varieties. Especially sour diesels which are pre disposed to grow that way. Some do and some dont. I have half of mine right now that are 2 different varieties of sour diesels and some grow foxtail style buds and the other dont which is simply genetics. Pictures below

The Ultra Sour grow tight compact rock hard colas much like a kush variety



While the Sage n Sours grow more of the straight diesel which produce foxtail like flower structure pictured below.

 

[Hessam]

I've also found out that when the foxtailing is genetic-related, it's very symmetric and well-rounded on every side and looks totally natural, but when it's stress-related, happens at certain points and goes long and out of control and affects yield dramatically.

 

[Dr. Who]

Foxtailing is one of two things:

Either sativa dominant strain that is genetically pre disposed to grow in that manner. OR

If it isn't a sativa or hybrid that has those genetics to grow that way then you are having an issue with either HUMIDITY/TEMPS being too high. Or an improper balance of nutrients primarily phosphorus causing them to foxtail.

The reason the flowers foxtail in high temp high humidity is to open themselves up to release heat and moisture from inside the cola causing them to split and grow "foxtail" like growth patterns.

I have also seen people who abuse or incorrectly use a blossom booster high in P&K which can cause this too happen also. Either it was used too much or used at the wrong time when critical bud development was still under way. You dont want to use the PK additives until the last 2 weeks of nutrients. Primarily weeks 6-7-8 depending on variety for most common 8-9 week strains.

So foxtailing if it isnt genetics can tell you right away that something is either wrong with your environment or nutrient profile and or both. And is a definite and tell tale sign that something needs to be fixed in your garden (as long as it isnt strain dependent, which is what you want to rule out first). Only indicas I know that grow that way are Diesel varieties. Especially sour diesels which are pre disposed to grow that way. Some do and some dont. I have half of mine right now that are 2 different varieties of sour diesels and some grow foxtail style buds and the other dont which is simply genetics. Pictures below

The Ultra Sour grow tight compact rock hard colas much like a kush variety

View attachment 3483492

While the Sage n Sours grow more of the straight diesel which produce foxtail like flower structure pictured below.
View attachment 3483491

WELL PUT BIL!

I've also found out that when the foxtailing is genetic-related, it's very symmetric and well-rounded on every side and looks totally natural, but when it's stress-related, happens at certain points and goes long and out of control and affects yield dramatically.

Astute observation Hessam! The pic I use for my Avatar is a perfect example of genetic foxtailing in relation to symmetry!

Doc

 

[Cannabil]

Yeah exactly. Foxtailing when its not genetics is a precursor for a problem in your room.

Nutrient related foxtailing is the worst. Flowers usually come out with no taste and reduced levels of trichs and resins because something is wrong.

Heat and humidity related foxtailing with usually form at the tips or main point of growth on most colas. The flowers have a natural defense to open up and try to breathe basically which causes them to split.

Some strains like that sour I show in previous post genetically just grow like that and is no cause for concern. And predominantly sativas especially land races and sativas from Asia grow in that foxtail growth pattern and are some of my all time favorite strains to smoke. I like the good foxtails on those strains. Great for breaking up and rolling joints. Nice little even ball structure pieces. Just my preference call me crazy lol

 

[jwreck]

from my experience i think is genetics, had some casey jones and jack herrer that foxtailed like crazy and they were the farthest from the light, the jack was super fluffy and a bitch to trim the casey was denser and not as leafy, on the same grow i had a critical cheese right under the light even burned some of the top cola and never foxtailed. all in all im still not 100% sure what causes it

 

[Cannabil]

from my experience i think is genetics, had some casey jones and jack herrer that foxtailed like crazy and they were the farthest from the light, the jack was super fluffy and a bitch to trim the casey was denser and not as leafy, on the same grow i had a critical cheese right under the light even burned some of the top cola and never foxtailed. all in all im still not 100% sure what causes it

Not to be a dick here but if your read my post I told you what causes it. Read previous posts its all explained.

I have some Jack Herer Widow cross I did a couple months ago I still have a few ounces Ill put up some pics. That strain foxtails as well its the Sativa side of the strain probably had to do with the pheno you ran. Some do and some dont. The one I did was a cross but it grew that same way.

The Casey Jones also foxtails its a sativa dominant strain much like the Jacks. It was probably the pheno you had. They both grow large dense calyx that swell and will grow that snowman style bud tips.

As i said earlier if it isnt genetics. You have an issue with heat/rh (humidity) or nutrients primarily phosphorus because you used a heavy P base nutrient or a blossom booster and applied it either at the wrong time or in excess. You need to know when to hit the ladies with the PK if you do it at the wrong time you will fuck everything up unless its in very skall small doses. Those 13/14 and 15/16 mixes whatever brand you choose is usually meant to be fed only once or twice and thats it!!

Right after the main flowering phase when the plants arent packing on any additional weight and have swollen. Thats when you want to use the PK Booster/Enhancer. Start off with small dose to see how the plants react some like more than others. Then you can feed one more time following week at full strength or two small feedings at partial strength. And thats all she needs. Any more then that and you are asking for troubles.

And if you use them at the wrong time primarily too early, you will fuck them up and kill your yields. The reason is that they are ripening stimulants. If your plant is still in the main flowering phase you just changed the plants response and that can prematurely cause ripening onset and reduce yields causing the pistils to turn brown quickly, leaf yellowing and leaf drop and flowers from continuing to grow and bulk up. Thats why it is very very important to know your strain and the perfect time to hit it with that added pk. Hope this helps.

 

[Cannabil]

Go get a bottle of Atami Bloombastic and use it on one of your plants in week 5 @ full dose. I guarantee it will foxtail and turn leaves yellow almost right away within a week. It will begin splitting at the bud tips and then leaf drop and ripening will begin. The pistils will turn dark within a few days and the flowers will be much smaller then if you wait a week or two and hit the other with half strength once per week for 2 weeks.

Bloombastic is very good product and can help set up a huge yield but if you use it at the wrong time you will fuck everything up. Its an expensive product and isnt for the feint of heart or for people cuttin corners or worrying about costs and spending money on expensive nutrient additives. But I use it all the time and it really does work when used correctly.

You will actually see a secondary growth spurt when hit at the correct time and will pack on not only flower size but harden your buds like rocks.

I wish I could give everyone some of my buds to see but these things are rock fuckin solid and have ripened perfectly. This is day 58 I believe now or 57 have to double check later. But using the Bloombastic has turned them from just nice big chunky flowers to rock hard monster colas. Timing is everything!!

If anyone knows how big a bottle of the largest PH Up you can buy is then check out the fuckin size of these sour diesels. Where did the bottle go??

Roughly 14-20 tops on each plant. 15-18" colas. 30-36" across and are 48-56" tall. 6 per light under 1000w ballasts. They are probably a half an ounce up to an ounce per colas absolute chunkers and they are hard as a fuckin Rock. You can't even squeeze them and this I swear on everything I love is the truth. For a run in the summer with 90+ degree wether for past few weeks this is the best summer run I have done in years. Good nutrients and the proper use of the PK Enhancer (Bloombastic). I love this product and swear by it 110%.

 

[Cannabil]

And YES everything is lollipopped and defoliated 3 times during bloom as you can see nothing but large chunky colas. No bullshit larf or popcorn crap anywhere. Nuttin but CHUNK!!

 

[thegreensurfer]

Chunktastic......I totally agree with the importance of timing. I've hit some plants too early, wk 5, with a 52/32 and resulted in no trics, and no smell. Now I start the p/k loading at wk 6/7....

Looks like a closed room, do you have a dehumidifier? The containers look small for all that plant, does that work better for you or is that an illusion?

 

[Cannabil]

Chunktastic......I totally agree with the importance of timing. I've hit some plants too early, wk 5, with a 52/32 and resulted in no trics, and no smell. Now I start the p/k loading at wk 6/7....

Looks like a closed room, do you have a dehumidifier? The containers look small for all that plant, does that work better for you or is that an illusion?

Thats an illusion. Those are 7 gallon containers. Lol. Idk why it looks like that now that I see it. I was taking a picture aiming downwards maybe thats why.

Plants are also super big so makes pot look smaller than it is i guess.

 

[Cannabil]

Yeah i got big dehumidifier in there.

 

[Cannabil]

Ill have weighs in about a week or so choppin em down day by day. Just me and one other person and theres alot of shit in there. Im thinkin I got at least 2 1/4 possible 2.5 off those last 6 plants. Have wait and see though its so hard to guess

 

[70's natureboy]

Newbs confuse foxtailing with runny airy buds. What's not to like about cannabil's fat diesel foxtail buds? That's the kind of foxtailing that people love.