Need help with recirculating bubble buckets

[Tranquilforests]

Hey guys been a rollitup stalker for many years and never had to ask to much because all questions are answered. My people is the workings of the controller unit DIY. I have the pump the float valve and I am about to build it but the tutorials do not say exactly how they work in combination. I am instructed to put the float valve in the unit but besides that no further instructions. Could you guys please help.
TF

 

[redi jedi]

I dont understand what you are asking...a picture would help.

 

[hellmutt bones]

Float valve? Arent u building bubble bucket?
What is it that ur trying to build and how?

 

[ArcticOrange]

I'm assuming you are talking about putting a float valve in your controller res. This float valve cuts off water flow from the res to the controller when the water level gets to a certain height inside the controller res. The feed line goes from the reservoir through the float valve and fills the controller. Correct me if i'm wrong but that is my understanding.

The photo is from "blazeoneup" over at icmag and his RDWC tutorial.

The barbed fitting would be on the outside of the controller reservoir and have a flexible line running to the main reservoir and the float would be on the inside of the controller reservoir. The water runs through the float valve you see. It is a passive fill system you just have to adjust the float to fill to whatever depth you want. I can provide the link to the tutorial if needed.

 

[hellmutt bones]

I'm assuming you are talking about putting a float valve in your controller res. This float valve cuts off water flow from the res to the controller when the water level gets to a certain height inside the controller res. The feed line goes from the reservoir through the float valve and fills the controller. Correct me if i'm wrong but that is my understanding.

The photo is from "blazeoneup" over at icmag and his RDWC tutorial.

The barbed fitting would be on the outside of the controller reservoir and have a flexible line running to the main reservoir and the float would be on the inside of the controller reservoir. The water runs through the float valve you see. It is a passive fill system you just have to adjust the float to fill to whatever depth you want. I can provide the link to the tutorial if needed.

That sounds too complicated to be bubble buckets..

 

[ArcticOrange]

The system i'm specifically referring to is a 12 bubble bucket recirculating system but the principle is the same as it can be scaled to a single bucket. A normal 2 bucket (res with pump and bubble bucket with plant) that recirculates shouldn't need a float valve as the water will equalize between the two containers. The need for a float valve comes into play when you have an external reservoir larger than your bucket(s).

 

[Tranquilforests]

The system i'm specifically referring to is a 12 bubble bucket recirculating system but the principle is the same as it can be scaled to a single bucket. A normal 2 bucket (res with pump and bubble bucket with plant) that recirculates shouldn't need a float valve as the water will equalize between the two containers. The need for a float valve comes into play when you have an external reservoir larger than your bucket(s).

Thanks you were right on Orange. So I really don't have to worry about the float valve if I'm not using an exterior res. Cool don't think I want to deal with the res. Now I will just install it for now and maybe run a res. Later.
Thanks alot,
TF
Ps it is alot for bubble buckets,
Running 15 on an Alita 40 pump
Do you guys think the bubbles will be good enough?

 

[ArcticOrange]

I think you should be fine at that amount of airflow for 15 buckets though I personally would probably go with two smaller pumps that have roughly 60 percent of the capacity of that pump so that if I have a pump fail I still have some DO (assuming all 15 are in one recirculation) but that's preference. Good quality stones make a difference as well. I do not have experience with that specific pump I am basing this judgement off what the pumps power consumption and rated airflow of the pump are.

 

[ttystikk]

So what's the difference between this and RDWC? I'm a little confused at what seems like new terminology for an approach that already has a name.

 

[ArcticOrange]

So what's the difference between this and RDWC? I'm a little confused at what seems like new terminology for an approach that already has a name.

If you mean the term "bubble buckets" its more of a generic term for any hydro system using air stones and 5 gallon buckets as far as I can tell. In this instance it is being used as a RDWC system and there is no major difference OP chose to use the blanket term that is all. If you are not referring to "bubble buckets" but some other term elsewhere please clarify and I may be able to help you out.

 

[ttystikk]

Then it's recirculating deep water culture, and the well established rules of the road for that approach apply; chill the water, be sure it recirculates evenly, and keep in mind that the main mission for the airstones is NOT aeration, but rather to splash water up onto the roots dangling above the waterline, so act accordingly in terms of airstone placement and pump sizing.

For myself, I've dispensed with airstones and pumps altogether in favor of continuous topfeed irrigation, fed by the circulation pump in the control bucket.

I recommend the approach without reservation, as it simplifies things substantially while accelerating plant growth.

 

[ArcticOrange]

For myself, I've dispensed with airstones and pumps altogether in favor of continuous topfeed irrigation, fed by the circulation pump in the control bucket.

I recommend the approach without reservation, as it simplifies things substantially while accelerating plant growth.

I am interested in this method, if you don't mind I would like to know more though I think a pm would be more appropriate than thread jacking OP or if you have any guides or tutorials on your top feed system really any information is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

-Orange

 

[redi jedi]

I would bet, air pumps and stones do a much better job of aerating...higher DO...than top feed.

 

[Glaucoma]

I would bet, air pumps and stones do a much better job of aerating...higher DO...than top feed.

I've never used a DO meter to compare, but I suspect that watt for watt a water pump would be the clear leader. I gave up air pumps a long time ago and switched to my aquarium powerheads.

I use containers now, but I aerated with water pumps for many a grow. Personally, I liked to combine the water fall feedings with a 2nd pump (maybe 15 watts) inside the res that would shoot water across the surface and used a venturi nozzle for fresh air replacement. I could also use that small pump to blow water back through the return lines from time to time to make sure they were good and clear.

 

[ttystikk]

I would bet, air pumps and stones do a much better job of aerating...higher DO...than top feed.

This would be true if it were difficult to achieve full oxygen saturation. Since it's not hard, pumps and stones have no advantage. So you might be surprised that you'd lose that bet!

Further, pumps and stones don't water the roots still inside the netpot, and so the plant's growth will slow until they do drop sufficient roots. With topfeed, no stalling happens and so the plants leap ahead by comparison.

I've done it both ways for years, and topfeed is king- or I wouldn't recommend it.

 

[redi jedi]

Y

This would be true if it were difficult to achieve full oxygen saturation. Since it's not hard, pumps and stones have no advantage. So you might be surprised that you'd lose that bet!

Further, pumps and stones don't water the roots still inside the netpot, and so the plant's growth will slow until they do drop sufficient roots. With topfeed, no stalling happens and so the plants leap ahead by comparison.

I've done it both ways for years, and topfeed is king- or I wouldn't recommend it.

You think your achieving max DO saturation (at a given temp) with a tiny waterfall? How much oxygen can be absorbed in the short distance its falling? Yes the agitation of the surface is also aerating the water. But if you consider a large root mass covers most of that surface area...how much aeration are you getting at that point?

 

[ttystikk]

Y

You think your achieving max DO saturation (at a given temp) with a tiny waterfall? How much oxygen can be absorbed in the short distance its falling? Yes the agitation of the surface is also aerating the water. But if you consider a large root mass covers most of that surface area...how much aeration are you getting at that point?

Saturation is six to eight percent. There's little taking it out of the water, so the agitation of every drop of the entire system over time (it all passes thru the control bucket sooner or later, on average ten times an hour) results in plenty.

Bonus; every drop ends up running over the hydroton, beaching any pathogens that might be hitching a ride.

Works like a charm, no air pump needed. Believe me or don't.

 

[Tranquilforests]

Saturation is six to eight percent. There's little taking it out of the water, so the agitation of every drop of the entire system over time (it all passes thru the control bucket sooner or later, on average ten times an hour) results in plenty.

Bonus; every drop ends up running over the hydroton, beaching any pathogens that might be hitching a ride.

Works like a charm, no air pump needed. Believe me or don't.

Really getting close if I could do away with the air pump then I think I could get started. My pump is like 1000gph so I to thought the water fall effect of the feed line would cause as much agitation as the stones. Looks like the air pump I have will only handle eight at best and to run them I have about 12ft of hose and two manifolds running them all. Guess if I don't get the ok from you I will get another pump and run 7 on one and eight on the other.

 

[ttystikk]

Really getting close if I could do away with the air pump then I think I could get started. My pump is like 1000gph so I to thought the water fall effect of the feed line would cause as much agitation as the stones. Looks like the air pump I have will only handle eight at best and to run them I have about 12ft of hose and two manifolds running them all. Guess if I don't get the ok from you I will get another pump and run 7 on one and eight on the other.

What do you need my 'okay' for?

 

[Tranquilforests]

To not use air stones, but just going to get another pump and go with the air stone because I like the misting of the roots not really a fan of top feeding.