A question for those growing in FF ocean forest

papa canna

papa canna

Well-Known Member
Richard Drysift said:
W

Wait so you've got plants in late flower that are burned? That's not likely to be from your mix....then it's gotta be from nutes...flushing them with water is your only defense- fuck whether it's got chlorine or not lol I assumed too much
It's either that or you've got a deficiency which seems more likely - are you giving them cal mag?
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The bad burns are only on the big fan leaves. they happened quite a while ago. right around the time i transplanted from solo cups into my pots of ocean forest.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
Did you give them anything soon after transplanting? Plants take a little while to absorb nutrients through their roots, and for those nutrients to get where needed. This is why foliar feeding is usually recommended for deficiencies. The plants wouldn't show burn right away though and without pictures and some additional info we can't even say whether it was nutrient burn. Individual leaves that do get burned or deficient don't usually get any better unless it was mild and promptly resolved.
How do does the new growth look?

BWG707 said:
With FFOF I've always added about 30% perlite and some dolimite lime. Then I give one through watering. I've even started seeds in it and never had any problems. GL
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Well, with 30% more perlite you have a mix that is 30% less nutrient-rich with significantly less cation exchange capacity. Meaning not only less nutrients, but less ability to retain nutrients; more leaching of nutrients. Vermiculite and pumice have CEC and can help serve the same purpose, as can coir to an extent.

I haven't used FFOF in quite a while, but I would if I absolutely had to. I used to mix some stuff like coir and dolomitic lime into also... but doing that repeatedly and trying some other stuff out lead me to conclude I might as well just mix my own shit up. If you can do that I would definitely recommend it and the base mix without any amendments can certainly be planted directly into. Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 mixed with 25% good quality compost or castings, and 25% more coir. Lime if necessary. Amend it if you want something more nutrient rich.
 
W

woody333333

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
It really makes a difference how MUCH chlorine/chloramine is in the water. In some municipalities you really don't end up with a lot of chlorine/chloramine out of the tap. In some you do. Some don't treat their water with either at all.

With chlorine, however, it reacts with organic matter (including humus) effectively destroying it and forming volatile organic compounds. These compounds, being volatile, gas off. So organic matter like humus essentially neutralizes chlorine, except that it is also destroyed in the process. Humus helps soil retain moisture, so the more humus you destroy the less there is to do so.
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But how much? I've grown in a bunch of different locations and not seen water that kills plants
 
hotshotisdashit

hotshotisdashit

Well-Known Member
Ive heard many people complaining lately about ffof. When starting seedlings i usually use half ffof and half hf. I also use about 20% perlite and add a tbsp per gallon of dolomite lime. Works for me.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
woody333333 said:
But how much? I've grown in a bunch of different locations and not seen water that kills plants
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Nobody said it killed plants at all, though it would if concentrations were high enough in which case there is a major issue at the water purification plant. Free chlorine will kill microbes at levels as low as 1 ppm or less. However, it is the organisms living in the top inch of the soil that are most affected and as most people know microbes multiply quickly. Chlorine isn't a catalyst for disinfection, meaning it physically changes or is "used up" when it encounters microbes. The ability of chlorine to disinfect also depends on temperature and pH, exhibiting increased antimicrobial activity at lower pH.

But free chlorine and chloramines to a lesser extent both react with organic matter (humus) and also change (destroy) it in the process. If you owned a pool or hot tub you might be aware of "chlorine demand" which correlates with how much organic matter is present in the water. The more organic compounds, the higher the chlorine demand, the more chlorine required for disinfection purposes.

Tap water can have up to 4 ppm of free chlorine per EPA regulations. If your tap water is on the upper end of that limit it makes sense that the humus in the potting mix can become altered over time, causing the soil surface to gradually loose it's ability to retain as much water as it used to. This could probably be remedied by top-dressing with more compost or earthworm castings.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
papa canna said:
The bad burns are only on the big fan leaves. they happened quite a while ago. right around the time i transplanted from solo cups into my pots of ocean forest.
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I had the same issues with FFOF soil & once I switched to using sunshine advanced with mycorrizea those N burns went away- though damaged leaves typically do not fix themselves- you gotta just pull them off & observe the new growth. Some plants I have transplanted a few weeks from seed in FFOF and were fine but other times I dropped young clones in it and they burned. I think every bag of OF is not the same; maybe they need to mix it better or something- it's got "hot pockets" according to my hydro guy who sold me on better mixes like sunshine advanced and roots organics... no more burn
 
papa canna

papa canna

Well-Known Member
Richard Drysift said:
I had the same issues with FFOF soil & once I switched to using sunshine advanced with mycorrizea those N burns went away- though damaged leaves typically do not fix themselves- you gotta just pull them off & observe the new growth. Some plants I have transplanted a few weeks from seed in FFOF and were fine but other times I dropped young clones in it and they burned. I think every bag of OF is not the same; maybe they need to mix it better or something- it's got "hot pockets" according to my hydro guy who sold me on better mixes like sunshine advanced and roots organics... no more burn
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That's good advice. A lot of people seem to like sunshine #4. I just wish i could tell the difference between "
Sunshine® Mix #4 with Mycorrhizae with Resilience™" and "Sunshine® Advanced Mix #4 LB/CB with Resilience™" Im on the website reading about both of them, but it doesnt give a clear difference.
 
Richard Drysift

Richard Drysift

Well-Known Member
papa canna said:
That's good advice. A lot of people seem to like sunshine #4. I just wish i could tell the difference between "
Sunshine® Mix #4 with Mycorrhizae with Resilience™" and "Sunshine® Advanced Mix #4 LB/CB with Resilience™" Im on the website reading about both of them, but it doesnt give a clear difference.
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Yeah that's the good stuff- I use the #4 w/myco and I have even recycled it a few times; pretty much all I use now. I dunno about the other kind there but the sunshine mix is like $4 per bag cheaper than FFOF from my local hydro guy & works a lot better -good luck happy growing
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
papa canna said:
That's good advice. A lot of people seem to like sunshine #4. I just wish i could tell the difference between "
Sunshine® Mix #4 with Mycorrhizae with Resilience™" and "Sunshine® Advanced Mix #4 LB/CB with Resilience™" Im on the website reading about both of them, but it doesnt give a clear difference.
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I'm not sure there is a difference really. They just started using the Resilience, which is a silicon supplement AFAIK. Unless they decided to split the product into two variants. I haven't seen new batches with the Resilience at any of my local grow shops yet.

BTW you can make SAM#4 even better by adding good compost or earthworm castings and more coco coir. I use 50% SAM#4, 25% compost/castings, 25% coir. Then I add (per gallon) about a tablespoon liming mix, 1-2 tbsp Alfalfa meal, 1-2 tbsp fishbone meal, 1-2 tbsp kelp meal 1-2 tbsp neem seed meal (if available), 1-2 tsp Azomite. If you use 2 tbsp of all of those amendments you have to let it age for about 3 weeks at least. The first couple weeks it is going to literally get hot due to thermophilic microbes at work.
 
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Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
I'm not sure there is a difference really. They just started using the Resilience, which is a silicon supplement AFAIK. Unless they decided to split the product into two variants. I haven't seen new batches with the Resilience at any of my local grow shops yet.

BTW you can make SAM#4 even better by adding good compost or earthworm castings and more coco coir. I use 50% SAM#4, 25% compost/castings, 25% coir. Then I add (per gallon) about a tablespoon liming mix, 1-2 tbsp Alfalfa meal, 1-2 tbsp fishbone meal, 1-2 tbsp kelp meal 1-2 tbsp neem seed meal (if available), 1-2 tsp Azomite. If you use 2 tbsp of all of those amendments you have to let it age for about 3 weeks at least. The first couple weeks it is going to literally get hot due to thermophilic microbes at work.
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You guys try Vermisoil yet? Vermisoil is killer right out the bag:-)
 
The Elvis

The Elvis

Well-Known Member
All the bags are at a different PH ask for it to be tested before you buy it. i have seen them as low as 5.5 ouch!!!
I use it to grow autos with no issues.. dolomite lime is mandatory IMO ..
 
Dr.4:20

Dr.4:20

Member
I started mine in 50/50 ocean forest - happy frog, feeding with compost teas. I know you are supposed to transplant into same soil, but I have a bail of sunshine #4 I wanted to switch to. Transplanting into 5 gallon pots, anyone see an issue using the sunshine mixed with HF and OF to ease the shock? They're at the end of week 4 from seed, and in 1 gallon at the moment.
 
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