Have any of you DIY COB Growers finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS? - POLL

[OneHitDone]

As the title suggests - have any of you DIY COB growers actually finished a crop under 1000W DE HPS?
Something of high quality such as a Gavita or Sun Systems AC/DE Hood with Digital ballast.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

That's a great question, and also, I'm neither a COB grower (I'm a wanna-be) nor have I grown with HPS and I responded to your poll. Your data is now useless, bwahahahaha!

I know at least one of those COB fools has.

 

[SupraSPL]

@Greengenes707 ran a side by side with 1000W HPS enhanced hortilux. The 1000W DE is only slightly more efficient than that bulb, ~41% vs 38% in the 400-700nm range.

Some of my friends locally run the 1000W hortilux and one thing is for certain, massive heat to get rid of. Every one I have seen is run with cooled hoods to manage the heat, but it also adds an additional 10% penalty to intensity in the canopy, assuming the glass is perfectly clean.

Jair from Gavita recommends running HID bulbs bare because they are designed to reach a certain temperature to perform to spec and the cooled hoods/tubes interfere with that.

 

[dandyrandy]

I'd love to but the heat in my 40"x46" area would be tough to mitigate.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

@Greengenes707 ran a side by side with 1000W HPS enhanced hortilux. The 1000W DE is only slightly more efficient than that bulb, ~41% vs 38% in the 400-700nm range.

Some of my friends locally run the 1000W hortilux and one thing is for certain, massive heat to get rid of. Every one I have seen is run with cooled hoods to manage the heat, but it also adds an additional 10% penalty to intensity in the canopy, assuming the glass is perfectly clean.

Jair from Gavita recommends running HID bulbs bare because they are designed to reach a certain temperature to perform to spec and the cooled hoods/tubes interfere with that.

The AC/DE hood removes heat indirectly from the bulb, it's a cool design===== pun intended

 

[OneHitDone]

I am hearing a lot of info that really is not relevant to the poll question asked.
I have spoken with Hortilux reps, even they will tell you that a single and double ended HPS lamp are different animals.
Most notably being the type of class the outer jacket is constructed of. (And Hortilux is working on one)
So basically, we still have no one testing a COB system directly against a DE.
In comparison, saying cob is going to produce better results with 3590 cobs against a SE HPS is like doing a grow of DE HPS against a Mars Hydro.

 

[SupraSPL]

Sorry if I can't provide the info you are looking for, but I think it is important to point out that there is a small difference between the two bulbs. DE bulbs are an improvement, but not a game changer the numbers just aren't there.

If that is true, then it follows that anyone that has used 600s or 1000 HPS can make a reasonably close comparison and Greengenes is a COB DIYer with widely known, documented 1000 HPS grows

In comparison, saying cob is going to produce better results with 3590 cobs against a SE HPS is like doing a grow of DE HPS against a Mars Hydro.

Approximate comparison
DE HPS emits 8% more light/W than a standard 1000 HPS
Commercial CREE CXB3590 lamp is 124% more light/W than a generic LED like Mars Hydro

If the goal is to compare CXB3590 vs DE HPS, the CXB is 37% more light/W but also the advantage of much lower reflector loss. It would be interesting to see how they did head to head. 1000W of COB vs 1000W HPS.

 

[Greengenes707]

I am hearing a lot of info that really is not relevant to the poll question asked.
I have spoken with Hortilux reps, even they will tell you that a single and double ended HPS lamp are different animals.
Most notably being the type of class the outer jacket is constructed of. (And Hortilux is working on one)
So basically, we still have no one testing a COB system directly against a DE.
In comparison, saying cob is going to produce better results with 3590 cobs against a SE HPS is like doing a grow of DE HPS against a Mars Hydro.

horrible analogy

1850umols for "mogul base"(not called single ended)
2050umols for a DE

Not that different of animals. Life span improvements are a bigger benifit than the greater output. Plus are forced to run bare basically and growers are now noticing the difference in bare.

If it wasn't 100* here for the last few months and me running fresh air... I would already have a DE to set president again.
And Apache has offered to buy one for me to do side by sides again. But it's too hot. People forget I have a necessity in addition to my addiction for LED's.

I have been in many DE rooms in the last 6mo-1yr. All very impressive, but not a complete revolution for the guys already killing it. One less fixture per row of 12 than with mogul and same results for the person I admire most and am thinking of.

Vertical and with undercurrent is still the most impressive g/sqft I have ever seen. If I wasn't there I would believe it. Their volume is amazing and mind blowing.
G/w not record breaking by any standards...but they will out yield you all day by lbs with moguls out the ass.

 

[gk skunky]

I have not but according to this video this guy did. Think I've posted this 3 or so times. Can't vouch for the authenticity. But..... Used hps and cmh previously for years, hps around 10 years alone. I'll stick with my LEDs.

 

[OneHitDone]

horrible analogy

1850umols for "mogul base"(not called single ended)
2050umols for a DE

Not that different of animals. Life span improvements are a bigger benifit than the greater output. Plus are forced to run bare basically and growers are now noticing the difference in bare.

If it wasn't 100* here for the last few months and me running fresh air... I would already have a DE to set president again.
And Apache has offered to buy one for me to do side by sides again. But it's too hot. People forget I have a necessity in addition to my addiction for LED's.

I have been in many DE rooms in the last 6mo-1yr. All very impressive, but not a complete revolution for the guys already killing it. One less fixture per row of 12 than with mogul and same results for the person I admire most and am thinking of.

Vertical and with undercurrent is still the most impressive g/sqft I have ever seen. If I wasn't there I would believe it. Their volume is amazing and mind blowing.
G/w not record breaking by any standards...but they will out yield you all day by lbs with moguls out the ass.

The point was most of the led vs hps conversations leave out the newest type of hps

What DE HPS would you use against the AT600?
Have them buy you a top of the line digital ballast and ac/de hood so you can air cool it

 

[OneHitDone]

GG touched on something that everyone is missing with his mention of vertical. Yield per sq ft is much more important than yield per watt.
It doesn't take much more weight to more than make up for the increased power consumption.

 

[SupraSPL]

I agree, but in my experience heat is a limiting factor once you start packing in very high intensity. So if high intensity is the goal, COBs win there even more than g/W because they can get the job done without affecting the ambient temps as much and they can give you a more uniform spread at those high intensity levels.

That said, something else important GG pointed out is regarding how light converts to heat. So even with very high efficiency LEDs, at high intensities the photons will raise bud temps. You can increase air circulation or lower the ambient temps with ventilation or AC, or both.

Jair says we are making a mistake by running the rooms too cool and losing out on some yield, but over and over I am seeing that higher bud temps delay the flowering cycle and it seems to reduce frosting and flavor. So when talking about maximizing g/ft² I figure bud quality deserves consideration

 

[hyroot]

@SupraSPL I've seen in my own garden. At 80 degree temps I have much larger buds. At 72 degree temps I have smaller buds. But denser and more frosty. More trichomes = more terpenes.

There is also using IR to increase leaf surface temp without increasing ambient temp. For faster metabolism.

 

[dandyrandy]

I agree, but in my experience heat is a limiting factor once you start packing in very high intensity. So if high intensity is the goal, COBs win there even more than g/W because they can get the job done without affecting the ambient temps as much and they can give you a more uniform spread at those high intensity levels.

That said, something else important GG pointed out is regarding how light converts to heat. So even with very high efficiency LEDs, at high intensities the photons will raise bud temps. You can increase air circulation or lower the ambient temps with ventilation or AC, or both.

Jair says we are making a mistake by running the rooms too cool and losing out on some yield, but over and over I am seeing that higher bud temps delay the flowering cycle and it seems to reduce frosting and flavor. So when talking about maximizing g/ft² I figure bud quality deserves consideration

This is my first run with the hood design and 800w of veros jammed in an area ~11 sq ft. My temps have been 68 at night and 80° max at the center of the canopy 12" down. The SLH clone I have run for 3 cycles. This run is the frostiest. And much healthier.

 

[OneHitDone]

@SupraSPL I've seen in my own garden. At 80 degree temps I have much larger buds. At 72 degree temps I have smaller buds. But denser and more frosty. More trichomes = more terpenes.

There is also using IR to increase leaf surface temp without increasing ambient temp. For faster metabolism.

And how would you propose one introduce IR into their LED garden?

 

[Carolina Dream'n]

Never used a LED, but I love DE fixtures. I won't run SE anymore.

 

[hyroot]

And how would you propose one introduce IR into their LED garden?

730nm IR led's or aquariaum t5's. IR on all day during veg and flower induces quite a bit of stretch though

 

[Native Humboldt]

I just replaced my hps 1000 xxl hoods with adjustable 400 600 1000 and turbo mode along with ac/ de hoods and I'm very impressed with there performance. With brand new bulbs hps bulbs the new de bulbs put our equal lumens at 600 compared to 1000 and at 1000 they peg my light meter at 18 inches. I'm only a week in and there ready to flip. I think there going to work quite well and I leave them on 600 for the first couple weeks. I know for sure in another 45 days but so far so good. I have replaced 5 so far and the other 5 are on the way.

 

[cdgmoney250]

 

[cdgmoney250]

My buddies run of two Gavita 600/750 FLEX each in its own 4x4 tent.
Assorted strains. Not the highest quality but the yield was amazing.
The tent with big chunky nugs yielded just over 3 lbs.
House & Garden in coco.
The other tent was hashed without weighing because of a really long story.
I wouldn't have believed this if I hadn't helped trim it myself.
Canopy temps were never below 92 degrees during lights on.