My 6000w flower room...need advice..

[shloppyjoe]

Hey all. New member here. Long time lurker. Anyway I figured I would kill two birds with one stone and show ya'll my setup and seek everyone's advice on some issues I'm having.

I have a 10x15x8 sealed flower room with one opening at the bottom for fresh air intake through phresh filter.
6 1000w hps air cooled running at 1100w each.
14k btu portable ac
70 pint dehumidifier
atlas 8 @1500ppm c02 with fuzzy logic
2 oscillating fans

I have 12 plants each vegged for 5 weeks and 7 different strains. I grow in autopots with 3.9 gallon pots. The bottom inch or so is all perlite with the rest FF happy frog soil. All 12 are on 1 13 gallon reservoir gravity fed with the aquavalves. The plants drink as they need to.

The 12 plants 15 days in flower. The first 7 I keep using the same nutes as veg. I also top feed in veg and keep ph between 5.8 to 6.0

Veg nutes: 15ml pro-tekt 15ml dyna gro grow 3.5ml dyna gro mag pro & 25ml cal-mag in 5 gallon bucket using R/O water and added in that order.

2nd week flower nutes: 30ml pro-tekt 10ml dyna gro grow 10ml dyna gro bloom 10ml advanced nutrients big bud 5ml dyna gro mag pro 10ml bud candy 25ml cal-mag in 5gal. Just checked the reservoir and the trays and ph is 6.0 with .05 fluctuation between the res and trays. I like to keep it in the 6.0 range. I have no idea what ppm the nute mix is but I ran my last 12 on the same feeding except all different strains with great success.

Room is running at 84 F @44% humidity.


Now for my dilemma. I had a mite problem last run with 12 plants that I caught in week 4 in flower. I knocked the problem out until finish with mighty wash and no pest strips. I cleaned the room completely but missed the bastards in veg and found em the day after i moved these 12 in flower. I spray with non-ph'd avid. Plants look great and healthy. I put more pest strips up. A week later I spray with mighty wash because it worked for me last time. After that I start running into blotchy yellowing leaves. Both times I sprayed with the lights on but as soon as I was done I turned em off, kept ac, fans and dehuey going. Now it's 7 days later and I just removed a lot of dying fan leaves off from 6 plants (3 strains). The rest look healthy with minor blotches on lower leaves but all still green. I'm not sure what to do. The worst 2 plants (ace of spades) have nothing but the top left that looks healthy!

I have come up with either to much light, magnesium deficiency, nutrient burn or light burn from 20min of lights on while spraying or less. The latter I seem to think isn't the case as the problem has been getting worse over the course of 6 days. I will also note I haven't found any more mites.


The "smaller" plants on the right in the 3rd image are all on there own res and have been in there for a couple days. Those are all budda tahoe og. The "white stuff" on top of the soil is DE. Those are doing good!

It's the other ones I could use advice on. Any help is much appreciated from this new grower!

 

[Dr. Who]

High Iron, K def and Mg def..... Yes even with all the stuff your using......Your locking out nutrition with low pH for soil and some of your problems are compounded by the others....

First off, Soil pH needs are more flexible then hydro.....But your treating it like hydro.....and their reacting like hydro......ALL in-going solutions should be 6.7 for you......

How are you mixing all that stuff? Explain it exactly how you do it.

I suspect the screwing is in how you mix your ferts and amendments to start with!!!!

The plants are getting nutrient every feeding? Not good.

There is just so much wrong going on here I'm surprised they're looking this good, for being in soil.....

I think you should figure out just how you want to grow. Soil or hydro and not combine the two....Soil does not make a good hydro media! I think your seeing directly the proof of that here!

Even if you got this fixed and continued with your nutrients.....Dyna Gro Grow is too high in P&K and the Bloom is just that to another level altogether....You would discover that real fast if this was not having the problems it is already......In a way, the problems you have are blocking the problems you would get otherwise....


Skip the Avid and go directly to Forbid 4F for the Mites - Works better and far less to no human toxicity...

 

[undercovergrow]

welcome to RIU @shloppyjoe

looks like @Dr. Who has you sorted all out - good luck on the rest of your grow! that would be awesome to have the amount of room you've got!

 

[shloppyjoe]

High Iron, K def and Mg def..... Yes even with all the stuff your using......Your locking out nutrition with low pH for soil and some of your problems are compounded by the others....

First off, Soil pH needs are more flexible then hydro.....But your treating it like hydro.....and their reacting like hydro......ALL in-going solutions should be 6.7 for you......

How are you mixing all that stuff? Explain it exactly how you do it.

I suspect the screwing is in how you mix your ferts and amendments to start with!!!!

The plants are getting nutrient every feeding? Not good.

There is just so much wrong going on here I'm surprised they're looking this good, for being in soil.....

I think you should figure out just how you want to grow. Soil or hydro and not combine the two....Soil does not make a good hydro media! I think your seeing directly the proof of that here!

Even if you got this fixed and continued with your nutrients.....Dyna Gro Grow is too high in P&K and the Bloom is just that to another level altogether....You would discover that real fast if this was not having the problems it is already......In a way, the problems you have are blocking the problems you would get otherwise....


Skip the Avid and go directly to Forbid 4F for the Mites - Works better and far less to no human toxicity...

I'm mixing the nutes in the order it was given in 5 gallon buckets starting with R/O. Vigorously stirring between each nute. Like I said before I had 3 runs previously using basically the same nute schedule. I'm not saying it could be better because I know it could! Being new I worry about feeding just water...it being virtually like hydro these babies from flower on are feeding from the bottom. Also I've always heard that instead of using ph up or down that I should just use more pro-tekt to raise ph or more grow to lower it. The reason being that ph up or down doesn't mix well with nutes? I would love to hear your opinion on this! It's one reason I use more pro-tekt that I need. I hear the silica can't lockout nutes but again it's just what I was told. I would have to use even more to get the ph up to 6.7.

I sprayed power wash last night before lights went out to see if it helps em out any. I might start knocking down the nute levels and stop using bloom and cut everything else in half. I know they love what I feed em in Veg!

 

[Dr. Who]

Ok, Si first and mixed well,,,,that's good - always do the Si first....

Your solution of cutting out the bloom and halving the rest is spot on!

For pH up try Baking Soda! Works great......
Organic and will not react with the other things like Si can.....That's right, Silica can bind with the Ca and lock it out.....That's why Si first but, the adding more Si to raise your pH IS effecting this anyway (I say this because of the iron problem - Ca, Mg and especially Iron go hand in hand.....Throw one off and the others are effected, so lets cut the extra Si use out. Not only that the Si raises K levels quite sharply and K over use effects uptake of N in a bad way.

For down use powdered citric acid - here's a cheap source:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=5caf&gclid=CjwKEAjwpuSvBRDSkaes4OasuEESJACfwIc_zWz43Kg_H9hamP-UeSAGGLqwBYre5UVdXHJekwNXJxoCiyPw_wcB&kpid=5caf

another solution could be Sulfuric acid (car parts store)

pH down will work fine....The thing I think your hearing is that Phosphoric acid is bad for plants. That is quite true for Organic's as it kills micro beasties and is tough on roots. Phosphoric is generally the acid used to make down.....The thing is your not using enough to actually hurt the plant in by far the most case's...for synthetic nute use.

I might suggest Mad Farmers "get down" This is a three part formula that holds pH better then most and has only 1/3rd the Phosphoric and was my favorite when doing hydro.....VERY stable.....The best liquid down available in my book! Far more stable then powdered citric.....I would choose this.

Keep your res at 6.5 - 6.7 with soil as the media for a while and see how that works for you...

Halving your nutrient mix will do wonders in your situation....In soil it's feed - water - feed - water.....So halving will get you there..

Here is a situation where I might actually say Flush here..Do a small flush say 2x the pot size and let the pot dry down to watering and restart with that 1/2 strength nutes....

Do those things and you should finish out fine and run better next time....I might look at Rockwool for tray media and maybe get away from soil.....But that's up to you....

Good Luck

Doc

 

[shloppyjoe]

Ok, Si first and mixed well,,,,that's good - always do the Si first....

Your solution of cutting out the bloom and halving the rest is spot on!

For pH up try Baking Soda! Works great......
Organic and will not react with the other things like Si can.....That's right, Silica can bind with the Ca and lock it out.....That's why Si first but, the adding more Si to raise your pH IS effecting this anyway (I say this because of the iron problem - Ca, Mg and especially Iron go hand in hand.....Throw one off and the others are effected, so lets cut the extra Si use out. Not only that the Si raises K levels quite sharply and K over use effects uptake of N in a bad way.

For down use powdered citric acid - here's a cheap source:

http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=5caf&gclid=CjwKEAjwpuSvBRDSkaes4OasuEESJACfwIc_zWz43Kg_H9hamP-UeSAGGLqwBYre5UVdXHJekwNXJxoCiyPw_wcB&kpid=5caf

another solution could be Sulfuric acid (car parts store)

pH down will work fine....The thing I think your hearing is that Phosphoric acid is bad for plants. That is quite true for Organic's as it kills micro beasties and is tough on roots. Phosphoric is generally the acid used to make down.....The thing is your not using enough to actually hurt the plant in by far the most case's...for synthetic nute use.

I might suggest Mad Farmers "get down" This is a three part formula that holds pH better then most and has only 1/3rd the Phosphoric and was my favorite when doing hydro.....VERY stable.....The best liquid down available in my book! Far more stable then powdered citric.....I would choose this.

Keep your res at 6.5 - 6.7 with soil as the media for a while and see how that works for you...

Halving your nutrient mix will do wonders in your situation....In soil it's feed - water - feed - water.....So halving will get you there..

Here is a situation where I might actually say Flush here..Do a small flush say 2x the pot size and let the pot dry down to watering and restart with that 1/2 strength nutes....

Do those things and you should finish out fine and run better next time....I might look at Rockwool for tray media and maybe get away from soil.....But that's up to you....

Good Luck



Doc

Thanks doc! I'm going to do a flush tomorrow and cut back on the Si use! Next run I'm starting a more flexible perpetual garden and I'll do side by side comparisons with the same strains with different media's, nute levels and different nutes altogether.

It means a lot that you gave me sincere time and input! Much respect! Love this community
!

 

[shloppyjoe]

Quick update. I've scrapped everything I was using!

Here is what they've been getting for the past few days and will continue to get until harvest time: 10ml Pro Tekt, 25ml Foilage Pro & 10ml CalMag. This feeding ph's to a stable 6.11. Approximately .11 higher than the previous feeding schedule. I wasn't sure yet what all the other fancy nutes were doing for me anyway. (Big Bud, Overdrive, Bud Candy) I've been told less is more many times, especially with the autopots.

@Dr. Who :I've been thinking about what you said on flushing. I've been told once you start bottom feeding you should never water from the top? When I've flushed I just used ph'd water in the res. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I also am not fond of the idea of trying out a new medium. I like soil growing but with autopots I feel I start with soil in the autopot in vegetative growth with top feeding and as soon as I start them on the res bottom feeding the roots are only feeding in the bottom composed of perlite. I'm very interested in whether or not the plant continues to feed from the soil or if all the roots suspend uptake and just take from the submerged bottom 2" of perlite?

I'm still researching the subject and considering trying out different methods. We'll see.

Here's a rather crappy picture of my happy plants though! (new camera I couldn't figure out the HDR options to take away the yellow)

 

[Dr. Who]

Quick update. I've scrapped everything I was using!

Here is what they've been getting for the past few days and will continue to get until harvest time: 10ml Pro Tekt, 25ml Foilage Pro & 10ml CalMag. This feeding ph's to a stable 6.11. Approximately .11 higher than the previous feeding schedule. I wasn't sure yet what all the other fancy nutes were doing for me anyway. (Big Bud, Overdrive, Bud Candy) I've been told less is more many times, especially with the autopots.

@Dr. Who :I've been thinking about what you said on flushing. I've been told once you start bottom feeding you should never water from the top? When I've flushed I just used ph'd water in the res. Do you have any thoughts on this?

I also am not fond of the idea of trying out a new medium. I like soil growing but with autopots I feel I start with soil in the autopot in vegetative growth with top feeding and as soon as I start them on the res bottom feeding the roots are only feeding in the bottom composed of perlite. I'm very interested in whether or not the plant continues to feed from the soil or if all the roots suspend uptake and just take from the submerged bottom 2" of perlite?

I'm still researching the subject and considering trying out different methods. We'll see.

Here's a rather crappy picture of my happy plants though! (new camera I couldn't figure out the HDR options to take away the yellow)

If you follow a proper slow dry and cure (I know it takes long and you want to try your harvest - buckle down, be patient and just do it). You will be rewarded with smooth and tasty smoke.......
Flushing does nothing in reality!

I do it like this.
I dry in a specific area with the temps at 70F with normal indoor swing, say +/- 3F
The RH is kept around a target of 60% and 50 to 70% is held....
I dry till the stems "crack" and not "bend" - I target this to take about 10 -14 days (The amounts dried at one time effect this time. If It takes less time to dry.....Raise temp and RH by 5 & 5 and see how that does......It needs to take at LEAST 7 days!

I cure buy putting the dried product in Mason jars and sealing them...
Everyday they are cracked open for about 3-5 min and the tops are only "off to the side" and not completely off.
I do this for 2 weeks.....
Try it at 1 weeks and keep some going for another week.....You should "see" a difference in the 2......i think the 2 week is stronger and more intense. Now I like to hit 3 weeks + for my personal.....If the product gets too dry and "crumbly" - Bovita packs work well......I don't have that problem as I use 1/2 and 1 gallon Mason's

Doc


I know, Change is hard to do.......I still say RockWool is my go to media for Ebb Trays....I really think you answered your own question on if the roots still feed from the soil.....They were and they contributed to the problem.....That should chill with nute concentrations at 50%......You may even have to reduce a bit further. We'll see with that.....If so, another 10% would be a starting place...

Grow on bro