Led Users Unite!

[Organja]

Insane difference! I remember the jumbo ufo from pro source worldwide. Ha! Good times in early led days.

^^^^
Big difference with LED growing since you started this thread, huh?

 

[GlowGod]

Organja, I remember the Jumbo LED it was crazy but without those early days with the 1/4 watt LED's or 15 watt light bright looking panels, we would not have the successful lights available today!

Grower Update:
A lot of people have wondered what I have been doing over the last 3 years in the LED community.
After moving out to CO I have continued to develop my LED bread seeds.
While the seeds will grow well in most lighting conditions these strains have not even seen a florescent or HPS or MH only LED's.
Taking the dominant plants and inbreeding and backcrossing until I reached a resinous stable pheno I could be proud of.

Attached are some photos of the latest breeding project.
Again still focusing on the purple spectrum for flowering with 24hrs of pure RED Led's once a week to enhance resin production.
All contained in a Lighthouse Hydro Grow Tent (6.5 x 6.5 x 6.5) erected upside down so you can use the front zipper in a top down manner for air flow and extra ventilation if needed.

The Photos Below Are Showing The 2 Main Pheno Types From My Pink Pu$$y Hybrid Collection Selectively Breed Over The Last Five Years.
Notice how the dominant type is a Seriously Dominant Kush Hybrid
Keep an eye out for my grow journal, I've been busy and still have to write it & post it....

Also keep me in mind as I will be looking for LED Seed Testers in October 2015!

 

[littlejacob]

Bonjour
THANK YOU...I win a bet because of you!
I bet my friends(about a year ago...) that in the near future there will be led/cob specific strains...and they did laugh at me...
If I were in US.....
I hope you will explain us the advantage to buy such strains!!
Have a great day ★

 

[AllDayToker]

Defiantly curious as well.

 

[AllDayToker]

Fresh order of some CXB3070 ADs



Can't wait to get these over my ladies!

Doing a little harvesting right now.

The CXBs will be replacing my current setup, which is a 600w HPS next to an Apollo Purple Sun 392w COB LED panel (180 to 190w actual draw).

For just some panel from amazon, it's outperforming my 600w HPS.

ANYWAYS, with a little background here is a pic while I was trimming earlier, as well as one before lights came on. Both pictures are from the plant mostly under the Purple Sun. Really happy with the quality for a 200$ light.

 

[GlowGod]

The simplest explanation would be to look at the seed banks. They offer 2 types indoor and outdoor.

But lets break this down to just regular gardening and not Hydro and Weed just indoor / outdoor plants

Outdoor would use all the strength of the sun with every spectrum and probably even some we have not identified yet.
HPS will burn more of an orange yellow to attempt to mimic the red spectrum of the sun used for flower production
MH will burn more of the blue white color attempting to mimic the blue spectrum used for Veg

Another thing to note is plants in nature out in the woods and forests are feed by the sun not by nutrients.
We use nutrients in indoor greenhouses in an attempt to make up what the plant is not getting from the lights and soil.

This is why when LED"s first came out, people were like all you need is red and blue lights. Its true you can grow under only red and only blue or a combination of both depending on what your doing.. But even NASA eventually used Green LED's to make the vegetables more appealing.

However, we here in the LED community of growers learned early on that other colors do other things to your plants, and its not as simple as add white light casue it has everything.

The other colors do other things to your plants such as (I cant find the chart atm but I want to say it went like):
Far Red for example makes good resin production
Yellow/Orange tend to make stronger leaves and increase flower production
Blue - Green tends to make a stronger cellular wall for stalk and stem development - Veg Growth
Purple mimics the light received in the shade makes a denser larger flowers
To go one step further you can create a LED to burn at a specific nanometer or color
- for example BUE is a range of 440nm- 520nm but the Blue LED will be specific like 450nm for a medium peak at royal blue.

So if your breeding plants under LED"s and the plant has no idea what real light is or white light is.
It will be forced to learn to absorb more of the LED color to grow.
Then overtime and based on what your using your developing different traits to absorb or eat that light source to produce the same thing time and time again.
Here you can see my spectrum of color makes a strong stalk. I have no fans or movement in the tent to create a stronger plant by stress, mine has a stronger stem from what I provide in the environment but mainly from the light source I know this because I have Sichuan buttons, cherry tomato's and chili peppers. They do not get the same food they get water only.






This is why indoor plants can be grown outdoors and outdoor plants can be grown indoors. The plant will absorb light regardless but the domain traits that it was breed for may now mutate differently.

LED's however, are using a concentrated light source at specific spectrums where you can control things like UV and IR and the color it receives, but if I take that plant from a LED tent directly outside it will burn because its not expecting that light source. At this point it may thin out and become week, almost translucent and then recover but that's really a mutation happening causing new growth to adjust to the shock.

I think I got way off track rambling on here but I hope I explained it before I got too high.

 

[AllDayToker]

The simplest explanation would be to look at the seed banks. They offer 2 types indoor and outdoor.

But lets break this down to just regular gardening and not Hydro and Weed just indoor / outdoor plants

Outdoor would use all the strength of the sun with every spectrum and probably even some we have not identified yet.
HPS will burn more of an orange yellow to attempt to mimic the red spectrum of the sun used for flower production
MH will burn more of the blue white color attempting to mimic the blue spectrum used for Veg

Another thing to note is plants in nature out in the woods and forests are feed by the sun not by nutrients.
We use nutrients in indoor greenhouses in an attempt to make up what the plant is not getting from the lights and soil.

This is why when LED"s first came out, people were like all you need is red and blue lights. Its true you can grow under only red and only blue or a combination of both depending on what your doing.. But even NASA eventually used Green LED's to make the vegetables more appealing.

However, we here in the LED community of growers learned early on that other colors do other things to your plants, and its not as simple as add white light casue it has everything.

The other colors do other things to your plants such as (I cant find the chart atm but I want to say it went like):
Far Red for example makes good resin production
Yellow/Orange tend to make stronger leaves and increase flower production
Blue - Green tends to make a stronger cellular wall for stalk and stem development - Veg Growth
Purple mimics the light received in the shade makes a denser larger flowers
To go one step further you can create a LED to burn at a specific nanometer or color
- for example BUE is a range of 440nm- 520nm but the Blue LED will be specific like 450nm for a medium peak at royal blue.

So if your breeding plants under LED"s and the plant has no idea what real light is or white light is.
It will be forced to learn to absorb more of the LED color to grow.
Then overtime and based on what your using your developing different traits to absorb or eat that light source to produce the same thing time and time again.
Here you can see my spectrum of color makes a strong stalk. I have no fans or movement in the tent to create a stronger plant by stress, mine has a stronger stem from what I provide in the environment but mainly from the light source I know this because I have Sichuan buttons, cherry tomato's and chili peppers. They do not get the same food they get water only.

View attachment 3507331

View attachment 3507332

View attachment 3507333
This is why indoor plants can be grown outdoors and outdoor plants can be grown indoors. The plant will absorb light regardless but the domain traits that it was breed for may now mutate differently.

LED's however, are using a concentrated light source at specific spectrums where you can control things like UV and IR and the color it receives, but if I take that plant from a LED tent directly outside it will burn because its not expecting that light source. At this point it may thin out and become week, almost translucent and then recover but that's really a mutation happening causing new growth to adjust to the shock.

I think I got way off track rambling on here but I hope I explained it before I got too high.

Makes since to me.

I'd love to see a side by side. Starting a seed under each and see the difference.

But wouldn't the leds make a difference compared to the HPS anyways? Regardless of the color of light you're giving them?

 

[GlowGod]

Kind of.. But you can't use like Green LED's and expect to get the same or better results.

but the rule of thumb was something like a 1000watt HPS would be close to a 450w LED
But then its a difference of footprint and area, and closeness to plants.

That's why I like the grow tent's they increase that footprint by consistently reflecting the light and bouncing it around.
There is no loss of light & led's have so little heat produced when compared to HPS so the environment is easier to control.

 

[littlejacob]

Bonjour
But do the plants gonna.react the same under the multiple spectrum we can find...they're not the same as yours...sometime very different...I guess!
And what about white cob (cxa/b vero)
Have a great day ★

 

[GlowGod]

little,

That is why I'm looking for LED grower's to become seed tester's.
I think that after 5 years of breeding under these LED's that they will perform well for any LED grower!

However, until people try it with their lights & post the results its only a theory
But I feel confident it will happen.
If it does not then I will re-produce my lights for sale.

 

[BM9AGS]

little,

That is why I'm looking for LED grower's to become seed tester's.
I think that after 5 years of breeding under these LED's that they will perform well for any LED grower!

However, until people try it with their lights & post the results its only a theory
But I feel confident it will happen.
If it does not then I will re-produce my lights for sale.

I'm here in Colorado and would be happy to test for you!

 

[littlejacob]

I did like too...but I am too far from US...but I am curious...what kind of.strain? indica...sativa...hybrid....? Flo time...? I try US strain for the first time atm.! And I am going to test more in the future...I use to buy spanish or dutch strain...but I want to try chemdawg, gs cookie, s diesel and maybe one day gg4...look like you have very good strains (more+different)
Good luck with led strains...
Have a great day ★

 

[mc130p]

I don't believe that enough generations of a plant can be ran in a person's lifetime to affect the biophysical utilization of light. Thousands of plants will be needed....many, many generations. In general, all cells try to adapt to their environment through changes in genetic expression patterns, but the genes themselves are unchanged. Furthermore, any "indoor" strain can be grown outside and vice versa. "Outdoor" strains don't need 'different' light.

 

[Old-School]

I am in Colorado as well.
I am willing to try this out for you. I also will plant the same seeds outdoors next season for a comparison.

 

[GlowGod]

mc130p I understand your statement, however, we would not have as many varieties of plants that we have in from human interference if the results could not be seen within a few generations. People would have given up on the process of selective breeding if it took thousands of years.

mc130p the best dispute I have for your argument is man's interference in corn to produce the ears of corn that you can purchase in the store today.



You don't need thousands of generations to effect change. Change is a mutation caused by the environment. To create change from an individual mutation in to a population may take thousands of generations for the mutation to effect the population of a species as a whole, but that's not selective breeding.

Here, we are talking about the selective breeding of a favorable mutation.

(The below excerpt can be found here in full detail: http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/vista/html_pubs/PLBREED/pl_breed.html)

Artificial Breeding selection is the process that humans use to obtain more desirable types of plants. Thousands of years ago people learned that saving seed from the kind of plant they wanted to continue growing would increase the chances of getting a plant similar to the original. But our ancestors didn't know what their chances of success were nor did they understand the processes by which traits were changed or maintained. It wasn't until the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries that humans began to understand the laws of heredity and the processes of plant reproduction. Even today these fundamentals aren't completely understood. But enough is known so that we can select plants for breeding with considerably more assurance of success than our primitive ancestors did.)

If that is how it happens outdoors why wouldn't this process be the same from an artificial environment?

 

[mc130p]

It has literally taken us centuries to get that corn we have today. Furthermore, from a resources and effort standpoint, it's easier to just improve your lighting than to try to develop a plant that can thrive in sub-optimal conditions.

 

[BM9AGS]

It has literally taken us centuries to get that corn we have today. Furthermore, from a resources and effort standpoint, it's easier to just improve your lighting than to try to develop a plant that can thrive in sub-optimal conditions.

All this talk of change makes me remember of how stupid Obama supporters are.....anyway

We have micro evolution. Adaptation can happen in 1 generation and passed to the next. There are written studies on this adaptation. The plant wishes to survive and will make the best with what it gets. So the only question is how do we measure this. the plant doesn't know our intentions so it could mutate or evolve in ways we don't prefer. But it's ability to make and give its future generations a chance will likely be its main goal. I bet the temperatures under led cause the most adaptation....would be interesting to see a botanical biochemists to weigh in on this subject.

A study done on an organism showed that there was the most significant adaptation or evolution in the first 2000 generations. over the next 8000 generations it haven't changed much at all.

We just don't know if it will evolve in our favor.

 

[PSUAGRO.]

It has literally taken us centuries to get that corn we have today. Furthermore, from a resources and effort standpoint, it's easier to just improve your lighting than to try to develop a plant that can thrive in sub-optimal conditions.

GMO can speed things up a bit......................golden rice has saved millions of children's eyesight for decades, it's not all the devil's work, there are definite cons though.. Some of us are excited about major food crops that require no pesticide or fungicide use, the pros would out weigh the cons for our environment imo====.our ag practices need to change asap

edit.............phone/swype sucks

 

[GlowGod]

Mpc you prove my point.

The corn started as a small plant with a few seeds that were coated in starch, these were kept and planted the following year and then they produced more starch coated seeds, so from 2-3 kernels you now have 5-6 kernels and they would take the best crop from that year and plant it the following, again taking the best to plant the next year to increase the number of starch coated seeds the plant produced. Eventually leading to rows of kernels thus leading to the cob of corn then to the abundance of kernels on a cob of corn like we have today.

My point was if they could not see the change in the plant, they would never have continued the process to get the results we have today.

Which is a small individual mutation (selective breeding) eventually effecting the population as a whole (dominant trait over many generations).

If people could not increase the yield from year to year they would have given-up, and the corn today would never exist.

Furthermore, there are many people in this thread that would support the claim that LED's are an improvement to lighting and that using LED's are not sub-optimal growing conditions but rather an improvement in the growing environment arguing that the LED environment is an improvement on a HID/MH-HPS environment.

 

[mc130p]

GMO can speed things up a bit......................golden rice has saved millions of children's eyesight for decades, it's not all the devil's work, there are definite cons though.. Some of us are excited about major food crops that require no pesticide or fungicide use, the pros would out weigh the cons for our environment imo====.our ag practices need to change asap

edit.............phone/swype sucks

That's right it could speed things up, but even GMO takes years to develop....and it involves a lot more than just shining a purple light on the plant and hoping for an eventual 'mutation.' The guy has never once mentioned any sort of genetic test. How will he verify that he has a plant that has a genetic mutation? Which genes, exactly, are involved?

What if I said that two plants, with the exact same genetic content, will look different when grown in different environments? Was a plant's DNA mutated, or did the plants try to optimize their function with respect to their environment through changes in genetic expression patterns?