ttystikk
Well-Known Member
May I see your light? You've just made an excellent defense of the reasons why I'm planning my own high wattage COB array.
Turns out there are lots of things that an HPS lamp can't do but a COB can.
Area 51 Why wait, seems you can buy cree cobs lights now
- Thread starter Tim Fox
- Start date
Turns out there are lots of things that an HPS lamp can't do but a COB can.
AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
There's so much more than efficiency to be considered in the equation and that's where the disconnect lays between some of you and me. I can think of at least one example where 100% efficiency doesn't even come close to matching, let alone doubling, 20% efficiency in terms of production.
The reality that a bunch of you're trying to dismiss is that a majority of people want to save as much money as they can without sacrificing any output. The issue lays with technology. COBS are fairly new to the lighting scene and aren't cheap, where as bulbs have been around since Edison.
Point incase - COB fixtures can't be sold solely on higher efficiencies, not this early in the game, as the cost associated with running softer is cost prohibitive on a commercial level for typical growers. Don't believe me, look at Supra's excel sheets.
@Stephenj37826
If there was no gain in efficiency then why did ~900W of COBS considerably outperform 1000W HID? The same outcome occurred with ~450W of COB against 600W HID.
If I didn't know any better I'd say both sides have trolls and as you know, trolls gotta eat! Gargoyles too but they're nocturnal and I'm not staying up for them.
The reality that a bunch of you're trying to dismiss is that a majority of people want to save as much money as they can without sacrificing any output. The issue lays with technology. COBS are fairly new to the lighting scene and aren't cheap, where as bulbs have been around since Edison.
Point incase - COB fixtures can't be sold solely on higher efficiencies, not this early in the game, as the cost associated with running softer is cost prohibitive on a commercial level for typical growers. Don't believe me, look at Supra's excel sheets.
@Stephenj37826
If there was no gain in efficiency then why did ~900W of COBS considerably outperform 1000W HID? The same outcome occurred with ~450W of COB against 600W HID.
If I didn't know any better I'd say both sides have trolls and as you know, trolls gotta eat! Gargoyles too but they're nocturnal and I'm not staying up for them.
IlovePlants
Well-Known Member
I think that it is only a matter of time before they make a COB that is as easy to plug and play as HID currently is. This argument spawns back to the dawn of LED growing 5+ years ago. The whole idea behind LEDs was to boost the spectrum of light to amplify production while cutting out bullshit. Turns out some plants thrive on bullshit, and they need it to grow properly. Now it's all about the white LEDs. This technology has been proving itself year after year, getting more and more efficient. I personally think that companies such as Indagrow and probably Gavita are just waiting for the cost of the COBs relative to installation cost to decrease. Currently it takes some time to built quality lights, and the drivers can add a bit of cost too, but I think eventually we will see more advanced and compact drivers that will allow some companies to put cobs onto regular sockets. Running at the right amperage, and with the correct heat sink we could see this happen extremely soon. I honestly think that we may see a renaissance in NM specific lighting for the horticultural hobbyist, but I think that unless some of us growers get involved it may be a bit off. There is a reason that vertical farms use pink/blurple light. It is extremely efficient, and yet almost no one is implementing this lighting into their grows on this forum because of our past experience with them.
Everyone was so psyched to get white LEDs that they didn't even realize that the technology is just a bit more efficient than HID, right now we aren't breaking ground on state of the art efficiencies in both photon production and cost that blow HID out of the water. Cost will always be high as long as the chips and drivers stay the price they are at currently, but in 2 years these chips will be cheap, add in some nm specific wavelengths and I think it will be impossible to surpass LED's efficiency barring the advancement of new technologies. I think that Indagrow was onto something with their pontoon, and I think that Growmau5 is showed us how efficient combining these principals can be. I'm not a light specialist, but I think that companies like A51, ApacheTech, Advanced Led Lights, Spyder and Amare are onto something by combining Monos and full spectrum lighting. In the future I think we will have lights that barely use wattage in Veg compared to running 3000k COBs, but it will contain those chips for use in flowering. I also think that we may eventually see Cree Cobs with Han's spectrum. Just some food for thought. Regardless of my opinion and the opinion of others, I think that the future for LEDs in general is extremely bright, and the pun was 100% intentional.
Sincerely,
IlovePlants
Tim Fox
Well-Known Member
I watched a TV DOC on MJ recently and they filmed an indoor grower who was using 1000 watt hps and growing in a warehouse and he said he "tried" led to see if it was feasable to switch, so he ran a side by side room with led and hps, and he got a huge loss in harvest weight, so he ditched LED, he did show the "light" he bought and he had it veggin some plants, but it was a huge ass BLURPLE panel,, and I sighed a big UGH sigh,
but then he said something that stuck with me, the grower could not run DIY panels because his insurance would not allow it, the DIY panels were not UL listed and other things,
I get the feeling that for a big operation that is above board, Legal in legal states,, that they have to buy a plug and play type fixture to pass inspections and pass state regulations and insurance stuff??
thoughts?
Stephenj37826
Well-Known Member
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
Everyone is already arguing about this over in the Spectrum King "think I've been led astray" post and one other about certified lights for a greenhouse
AquariusPanta
Well-Known Member
Thank you for the treat!
How much might one of those bad toys go for? Assembly time can't be too high, which is something every manufacturer desires
hyroot
Well-Known Member
Lights for commercial green houses not only have to have UL certs but they have to be rated for damp environments. Without the proper safety certs the growers can be fined. In Co. Last year gardens were fined anywhere from $5'000 to $70,000 for not having lighting with proper certs. If you noticed in Gg's thread where I asked him about getting UL certs on the plc lights. if the new regulations here go into effect.
that gives GG an advantage since he is buddies with apache.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This would be correct.
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
Seems legit to me. Insurance companies are notoriously prickish about this stuff. That's one of the good things about a black market. It won't be long until someone gets a good COB panel UL-listed. Within 2 years I bet.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
You're making a strong business case for it. Imagine what other possibilities that might open up...
why 2 years? does it take that long to get ul certified?
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
I'm not saying it won't happen tomorrow, I'm just saying inside of a two-year timeframe there will be a commercially-viable COB-based panel that can be insured, and then we'll see commercial facilities move toward them. The listing/certification process takes a fair bit of time and no small amount of money. Pure speculation on my part, as to the timeline we can expect to see them in the wild.
I can't wait to see your comparison grows, I think they will shut up a lot of the doubters.
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Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
/me quickly scans thread to see if I called anyone names, remembers I didn't, and notices that many posts have been deleted.
all posts deleted had name calling in them or quoted
you guys are ridiculous in this led section
same shit everyday new thread
Michael Huntherz
Well-Known Member
Did you just call us ridiculous?
That's accurate.
It really is #SSDD in here and I don't mean Sun Shine Day Dream.
<3
captainmorgan
Well-Known Member
Some of the reasons for all the arguing,just to name a few.
Spamming competitors threads
People selling lights that have never grown
People selling lights with no business ethics
People selling lights that are filled with false claims
People that promote LED but don't understand what they promote
People that don't believe in LED tech
People that just like to argue
People that try to defend the tech and correct false claims
Spamming competitors threads
People selling lights that have never grown
People selling lights with no business ethics
People selling lights that are filled with false claims
People that promote LED but don't understand what they promote
People that don't believe in LED tech
People that just like to argue
People that try to defend the tech and correct false claims