Mutations pop up all the time, sometimes its just a matter of finding them in already established landrace populations, as youve stated and sometimes they are created like in breeding pigeons, bettas, dogs etc random mutations like "super red" or a lot of the various shapes and colors, not all of these are present in wild populations which suggest that they were created through basic human breeding practices, A regular occurence that happens quite often especially if your selecting through thousands of individuals fgrom a given population.
The reason I stress genetic diversity so much is exactly because of the points your bringing up, We as humans do not create most of the fantastic variety of life we see all around us, we do however destroy most of it and in 100 years when all the pure landraces are extinct and only the strains being maintained in our closets are around anymore we will miss the diversity we lost through these lazy breeding practices. I dont know what traits and genes will be valuable to our future generations and dont have a lot to gain from making the strain so uniform that it cant perform without being outcrossed.
Just look at pigs in america, weve almost wiped out the landrace populations in favor of what grows fastest, provides greatest yield, best tasting (american opinion) meat and can handle the terribly unsanitary conditions there subjected to, now we are struggling to hold on to the last members of the dwindling landrace populations that have qualities like slow growing, thick marbling, and ability to mother a litter. Those traits were utterly worthless to the old factory farm system and now were seeing the folly of just eliminating every trait that we dont view as "valuable" because the super antibiotic pumped pigs dont perform as well on natural sunlight and grass like a pig should.
Im not trying to be a dick here but have you ever selfed a plant that many times? Ive been breeding (plants + animals) a pretty good amount of time and seen a lot of stuff that makes me think... and rethink things I thought I knew. sure on paper it sounds good but just try it, try it and tell me how quickly your line runs into severe inbreeding depression. breeding on paper and what actually happens in real world application can be drastically different, aside from just getting a number wrong or something (think math, gotta start the equation all the way over to determine the point of error) living things just dont do what we want them to all the time, youd be surprised.
This is why im trying to get into tissue culture and start figuring out the answer to questions like "what happens if you self an auto 4, 5 ,6 times?"
Well, I wouldn't want every strain to be stabilized to the point where certain traits are lost, and I would be keeping seeds from each generation while in the process of stabilizing a strain, so the genetics would never be gone forever. I'd just know exactly what each seed was going to produce, and how that bud's effects will be. A lot of other plant communities are sticklers about having stuff stabilized for several generations with only one common pheno. It's not that I don't want certain traits because they are useless. I just rather know what seeds from which batch will produce those traits. I'd rather have a few lines of stable BKR's that are all noticeably different, than one line that produces several phenos.
Don't worry, you don't sound like a dick. No, I haven't selfed a plant several times. That said, I don't believe that the depression you are mentioning is made up, I just don't think it's due to the selfing (directly), but rather the fact that all negative traits get reinforced due to the fact that when selfing, one parent acting as both parents. If you self a plant with hermie tendencies, you will likely get many more hermies in the offspring than if you crossed it with a plant that did not hermie easily. I think once you have a relatively uniform set of offspring, selfing shouldn't be much worse than regular inbreeding, if at all. However, in the beginning when there are a ton of different genotypes, some of which will likely be runts/hermies/etc., it is riskier, since you might be selfing one that has undesirable traits, instead of one of the ones that is good all around.
As for making a strain for a doomsday/extinction scenario, I agree that I'd want as many pheno's as possible, and I'd stick to regs vs fems, so they could grow and evolve on their own if thrown into the wild.
I also know that there are unexpected variables that can and will pop up when dealing with anything living, so it's hard to be 100%, but at least knowing the theory helps you figure out what went wrong tho.
As far as tissue culture goes, I have been interested in trying it on some auto's as well. I've done it on other plants that are much more finicky than cannabis, so I think it should be very doable. It just takes a lot of patience and trial/error to get consistently positive results. I've been curious if you can keep an autoflower culture alive indefinitely, and only replate and then plant out clones that would start their "life cycle timer" once given hormones for regular growth instead of just undifferentiated cell division. I might be able to flask up some seeds in the near future to test it out. No promises yet, tho.
i selfed a couple of HLG's akr's which were S1 i guess when i got them made a batch for
me and then made a batch for my lil bro from the ones i made i ended up sending him some of the first batch because most of what i sent him could of been classified as males .... and the ones i got from highlow were frosty firey goodness that i literally had one hermi from ( out of maybe 30 seeds or so ??? its been a while but he hooked it up ) and it was in the dark for a few days (atleast 3) solid during a move so i dont even blame genetics alot of plants would of done it ... but the s3 batch ?? i guess i'll call it for labeling purposes was pure junk .... but it was a fem of a fem of a fem batch started from a fem seed
and not just one the majority of them started budding beautifully , crazy trichs , smell was amazingly dog shitty and then damn near all at the same time started tea baggin me ... called the lil bro and same issue
"
me and then made a batch for my lil bro from the ones i made i ended up sending him some of the first batch because most of what i sent him could of been classified as males ...."
You took HLG's AKR f1's and selfed to make f2's for yourself, and THEN made f3's from a selfed f2, and the f3's were mostly hermies?
Being that you are working with AKR which has known hermie issues, I wouldn't be surprised if you inadvertently selected for the high hermie tendency one of those 2 times. If you were to make another genetic line from one of HGL's f1's, I don't think you'd necessarily have the same results. I may be wrong tho. I'll have to try it for myself with some of the HLG AKR f1's I have in storage.
WTF happened here ^^^^^^^^^^ Oh well here it is again.
plant 1 and plant 2 are pollinated by who?
How the hell am I suppose to know.
I knew I skipped something.
I am currently TMisting a fem Berry Ryder. How about dusting these 12 F1s with this Berry pollen to start.
OR
I can start a BKR and TMist that. Then hit the 12 F1s with this BKR pollen.
Thoughts??
I'm guessing start a BKR. The Berry would be going backwards. Right?
Thanks fellers.
If you dusted the 12 with the pollen from that berry they would probably still be some nice seeds and probably produce some very nice plants but itll take you a step closer to being a berry ryder knock off and not an original strain.
If you pop an F1 BKR and dut the 12 with her I think thats the better option but do you think youll have time to sync up the pollen collection with a dusting?
maybe keep the pollen from the berry as backup (and for possible use on certain bud sites if thats what you wanted to do)
and try spraying down 1 of the 12 that looks really nice and getting pollen for her, then running another 12 and dusting them with that pollen and youd still be on track with your F2 run and have gone through roughly 25 specimens. Which just gives you a greater chance of finding someone real special.
@bf80255 He mentioned wanting his new strain to be more like BR than AKR, so he'll have to backcross eventually. Doing so 1-3 times in the beginning should give him a batch of f1's that is mostly BR with some AKR traits in there, ready to be bred out for more generations. Is there any reason why you would avoid doing it that way, if you wanted the same things he does (BR dominant offspring)? The other option I can think of would be breeding his BKR's to f2/f3, and then crossing back to BR to add the dominance that he's looking for.
BKR f1 seeds
thats why i have no issue hand feeding a tray of them cause its all smokable in the end even the cull's
confused me ...