First Democratic Debate on Tue. Oct. 13, You guys tuning in?

[pnwmystery]

JFK is generally regarded as one of the greatest Orators in history. "Ask not......." is one of the most famous lines spoken. Compare that sentiment with Sanders platform. Shame on you people.

Yeah, JFK also said this.

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

 

[ginwilly]

That's so much horseshit and you know it this country has been struggling for almost 100 years to get healthcare, the cost of healthcare is the #1 contributor to the rising deficit, Romney tried the single payer option in Massachusetts and it worked so Obama just made it work for the rest of the country and now more folks have healthcare cause they can afford it. The pukes are just mad that count blackula stole their idea and made it work for millions of folks.

Remember that batcrazy bitch (Bachmann) who claimed that there were going to be death panels, grandma was going to die, babies were going to die or that jobs were going to be lost. That's all the pukes are good for doomsday talk. The Democratic party isn't the best thing going but they do help the American public.

The pukes are quick to slap u on the back and tell you "job well done" if you get there but won't lift a finger to help you get there or just make hard to get there.

B4L

The death panel claim was from the original bill that had required end of life council. Death panel was a very flippant way to describe the piece to ignite the most hate. Terrible description, but not untrue. End of life council, death panel... it's not a giant leap.

Massachusetts wanted that version for their state. If you happened to notice what happened in the rest of the country, it was wanted every where. But in true demfuck fashion, you guys know what's best for the rest of the country and we must bend to your will. The shittiest of all the shitty is that you not only didn't know best, you either still can't admit what a cluster it was or you admit it, but put the blame on "those guys".

Do you understand the very basic difference that Mass wanted it, so they got it, the rest of the country didn't want it, but got it anyway. It's not the exact thing either. Romneycare doesn't bend over and suck the balls of big pharma as well. Romneycare isn't a payoff to hospital corp and insurance quite on the level Obamacare is.

I disagree with pukes being the ones making it hard to get there. There is a very bi-partisan effort to protect cronyism in DC. If you think your team isn't bought and paid for then you are exactly what I described in the last post.

 

[ginwilly]

Yeah, JFK also said this.

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

Are you trying to justify demanding free stuff from your country instead of serving your country (which gets you the free stuff you are demanding btw).

 

[pnwmystery]

Are you trying to justify demanding free stuff from your country instead of serving your country (which gets you the free stuff you are demanding btw).

There are a multitude of ways of serving your country and this has been a fact since the inception of our country. How many of the Founding Fathers actually fought in the Continental Army?

 

[ttystikk]

Now for your consideration,
here is a dyed in the wool leftist who fears that his party is in deep doo doo.
................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Democrats are in denial. Their party is actually in deep trouble.
http://www.vox.com/2015/10/19/9565119/democrats-in-deep-trouble
Some of my favorite takeaways--

The presidency is extremely important, of course. But there are also thousands of critically important offices all the way down the ballot.And the vast majority — 70 percent of state legislatures, more than 60 percent of governors, 55 percent of attorneys general and secretaries of state — are in Republicans hands. And, of course, Republicans control both chambers of Congress.

Not only have Republicans won most elections, but they have a perfectly reasonable plan for trying to recapture the White House. But Democrats have nothing at all in the works to redress their crippling weakness down the ballot.

The GOP might be in chaos, but Democrats are in a torpor.

No US state is so left-wing as to have created an environment in which business interests are economically or politically irrelevant. Vermont is not North Korea, in other words.

But the much more significant question facing the party isn't about the White House — it's about all the other offices in the land. The problem is that control of the presidency seems to have blinded progressive activists to the possibility of even having an argument about what to do about all of them. That will change if and when the GOP seizes the White House, too, and Democrats bottom out. But the truly striking thing is how close to bottom the party is already and how blind it seems to be to that fact.
..............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Whoa Nelly, Yglesias has stumbled upon the harsh truth!

It's quite true that the democrats are thin on the ground when it comes to local, county and state elected positions.

That can be changed as easily as the top tier of candidates, at the same time, on the very same ballot. The awareness of the average voter about these positions and their importance is pretty weak, even after what's her face the republican county clerk refused to sign gay marriage licenses in KY.

 

[ttystikk]

Yeah, JFK also said this.

What do our opponents mean when they apply to us the label "Liberal?" If by "Liberal" they mean, as they want people to believe, someone who is soft in his policies abroad, who is against local government, and who is unconcerned with the taxpayer's dollar, then the record of this party and its members demonstrate that we are not that kind of "Liberal." But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

That sure sounds like JFK to me. Bernie doesn't have the same charisma, but he definitely has a similar outlook on governance.

 

[ginwilly]

There are a multitude of ways of serving your country and this has been a fact since the inception of our country. How many of the Founding Fathers actually fought in the Continental Army?

Agreed, it doesn't have to be the armed services that gets you free education and healthcare for life, there are many other civic minded organizations that do the same.

If you are willing to serve your country, your country is willing to take care of you (for the most part, exceptions to every rule). I don't know very many people who are against this.

At one time Obama talked about mandatory service. I'm against making it mandatory, but Obama even agreed that the free ticket should come with strings.

 

[ginwilly]

It's quite true that the democrats are thin on the ground when it comes to local, county and state elected positions.

That can be changed as easily as the top tier of candidates, at the same time, on the very same ballot. The awareness of the average voter about these positions and their importance is pretty weak, even after what's her face the republican county clerk refused to sign gay marriage licenses in KY.

Let you in on a secret. I really don't think of dems as single block, I know there are many diverse positions under the umbrella. I don't blame all dems for that shitty bill, just the ones who in spite of evidence to the contrary still defend it as something it's not. Some of you guys realize we dropped the ball and actually can admit it.

I blame part of that on the pubs trying to make it out to be something it's not too. It put you guys in defense mode. That's what lying does, I just went after dems because the ACA is their baby and some fool was blaming pubs for it sucking. That's why we don't accomplish anything important (I know you guys think the ACA is important, but it's not what it should have been), that's why we are still fighting wars almost 7 years after the idiot left, that's why the NSA is still invading our privacy, that's why our debt continues to explode, because it's always the other guys fault.

 

[Wavels]

That sure sounds like JFK to me. Bernie doesn't have the same charisma, but he definitely has a similar outlook on governance.

Except for their contrasting viewpoints on rates of taxation.
Bernie---higher, higher.
JFK---lower, lower.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I don't know very many people who are against this.

I'm against that

Access to healthcare should be as fundamental to American life as access to education or fire/police service, as it is in every other modern western country on Earth. Collectively, we've agreed these things are fundamental to the function of society we hope to enjoy, they're necessary to foster growth and promote domestic tranquility, just as much as any of the other socialized services our taxes provide.

 

[ginwilly]

I'm against that

Access to healthcare should be as fundamental to American life as access to education or fire/police service, as it is in every other modern western country on Earth. Collectively, we've agreed these things are fundamental to the function of society we hope to enjoy, they're necessary to foster growth and promote domestic tranquility, just as much as any of the other socialized services our taxes provide.

I meant against taking care of people who volunteered services to this country. Even the hardcore righties are cool with taking care of soldiers.

Surely you are not against taking care of service people which is what your flippant reply would imply.

 

[Padawanbater2]

I meant against taking care of people who volunteered services to this country. Even the hardcore righties are cool with taking care of soldiers.

Surely you are not against taking care of service people which is what your flippant reply would imply.

I was referring to your idea that people should have to "serve their country" to be afforded healthcare

 

[MuyLocoNC]

I meant against taking care of people who volunteered services to this country. Even the hardcore righties are cool with taking care of soldiers.

Surely you are not against taking care of service people which is what your flippant reply would imply.

Conservatives are cool with taking care of soldiers who receive injuries during their service and taking care of them exceptionally well. However, once a soldier has transitioned out of the military, if he/she has no injuries, they're on their own.

It's amazing how the left continues to conveniently add so many things to the list of "rights".

Healthcare isn't a right, unless you're talking the right to administer it to yourself. All through human history, doctors have been paid for providing a service. You have no more "right" to their skills and labor than you do to the pastries of the local baker.

 

[pnwmystery]

Conservatives are cool with taking care of soldiers who receive injuries during their service and taking care of them exceptionally well. However, once a soldier has transitioned out of the military, if he/she has no injuries, they're on their own.

It's amazing how the left continues to conveniently add so many things to the list of "rights".

Healthcare isn't a right, unless you're talking the right to administer it to yourself. All through human history, doctors have been paid for providing a service. You have no more "right" to their skills and labor than you do to the pastries of the local baker.

Oh really? Conservatives are cool with taking care of veterans?

"While Congressional Republicans wave the flag with one hand, they are trying to cut benefits for 70,000 veterans with the other. President Obama has vowed to veto the bill, and House Democrats are promising to sustain that veto.

On Tuesday, President Obama threatened to veto the Republican bill, “The Administration strongly opposes House passage of H.R. 2029, making appropriations for military construction, the Department of Veterans Affairs, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2016, and for other purposes. The bill fails to fully fund critical priorities, including veterans’ medical care and military and VA construction. Furthermore, the legislation includes a highly problematic ideological rider that would constrain the President’s ability to protect our national security. If the President were presented with H.R. 2029, his senior advisors would recommend that he veto the bill.”"

"Senate GOP Obstructionists Throw Veterans Under The Bus-Vote Down Bill To Help Vets In Need Of Jobs"

"the Chairperson of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs announced on Thursday that at least one Republican Senator was holding up a bill which would provide a cost of living adjustment (COLA) on benefits for disabled veterans and the spouses and children of deceased veterans."

"Forty Republican members of the United States Senate betrayed veterans today when they decided that denying President Obama a victory was more important than spending $1 billion to create jobs for vets."

"GOP Voted Against 7 Bills to Help Veterans

H.R. 466 – Wounded Veteran Job Security Act became H. R. 2875.

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 – Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1172 -- Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act"

"Veterans Affairs Secretary Bob McDonald told the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention here on Tuesday that veterans are being hurt by an ideology in Washington that demands huge VA budget cuts and a system that will keep the best qualified people from joining the department."

""Republicans beat back a Democratic attempt to provide almost $2 billion in additional health care funding for veterans. rejecting claims that Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are in crisis.""

"The U.S. Marshal Service announced Tuesday that it had captured one of America’s Most Wanted fugitives who is accused of creating a fake charity for Navy veterans that funneled some of the $100 million collected to Republican candidates....

Republican Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli reportedly personally pleaded with Thompson for donations and received $55,000 for his effort, making Thompson Cuccinelli's second-largest donor. Cuccinelli was eventually forced to turn over the tainted money to veterans support groups."

"2007 - Questions are being raised about the new commander in charge of the Army's Walter Reed Army Medical Center, a day after the previous general in charge was fired.

The shuffle at Walter Reed takes place two weeks after a series of articles in The Washington Post exposed troubling conditions at the Washington, D.C., facility."

"2007 - Witnesses told a House panel Monday that wounded U.S. soldiers are forced to struggle against a nightmarish and untrustworthy Army medical system that leaves veterans stranded in unfit conditions.

Two Iraq war veterans and the wife of a third gave heartbreaking, at times stunning, tales of neglect at the now notorious Walter Reed Army Medical Center."

"Conservative Rep. Michele Bachmann is taking heat from the nation's largest combat veterans' organization for proposing, as part of a broad list of spending cuts, a combination of reductions and caps in veterans' benefits."


The first one I can see you saying something like blah blah blah, it's really Obama's fault and he wants to cut Veterans and he's just doing this for political reasons, but the shoe sure does fit on the other foot. Republicans are wanting to pass the very bare minimum that they can get away with while spending it in other places, while the current administration wants our veterans taken care of. On all the others, I'm really waiting to hear your excuses.

 

[MuyLocoNC]

Oh really? Conservatives are cool with taking care of veterans?

"While Congressional Republicans wave the flag with one hand, they are trying to cut benefits for 70,000 veterans with the other. President Obama has vowed to veto the bill, and House Democrats are promising to sustain that veto.

On Tuesday, President Obama threatened to veto the Republican bill, “The Administration strongly opposes House passage of H.R. 2029, making appropriations for military construction, the Department of Veterans Affairs, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2016, and for other purposes. The bill fails to fully fund critical priorities, including veterans’ medical care and military and VA construction. Furthermore, the legislation includes a highly problematic ideological rider that would constrain the President’s ability to protect our national security. If the President were presented with H.R. 2029, his senior advisors would recommend that he veto the bill.”"

"Senate GOP Obstructionists Throw Veterans Under The Bus-Vote Down Bill To Help Vets In Need Of Jobs"

"the Chairperson of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs announced on Thursday that at least one Republican Senator was holding up a bill which would provide a cost of living adjustment (COLA) on benefits for disabled veterans and the spouses and children of deceased veterans."

"Forty Republican members of the United States Senate betrayed veterans today when they decided that denying President Obama a victory was more important than spending $1 billion to create jobs for vets."

"GOP Voted Against 7 Bills to Help Veterans

H.R. 466 – Wounded Veteran Job Security Act became H. R. 2875.

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 – Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1172 -- Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act"

"Veterans Affairs Secretary Bob McDonald told the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention here on Tuesday that veterans are being hurt by an ideology in Washington that demands huge VA budget cuts and a system that will keep the best qualified people from joining the department."

""Republicans beat back a Democratic attempt to provide almost $2 billion in additional health care funding for veterans. rejecting claims that Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are in crisis.""

"The U.S. Marshal Service announced Tuesday that it had captured one of America’s Most Wanted fugitives who is accused of creating a fake charity for Navy veterans that funneled some of the $100 million collected to Republican candidates....

Republican Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli reportedly personally pleaded with Thompson for donations and received $55,000 for his effort, making Thompson Cuccinelli's second-largest donor. Cuccinelli was eventually forced to turn over the tainted money to veterans support groups."

"2007 - Questions are being raised about the new commander in charge of the Army's Walter Reed Army Medical Center, a day after the previous general in charge was fired.

The shuffle at Walter Reed takes place two weeks after a series of articles in The Washington Post exposed troubling conditions at the Washington, D.C., facility."

"2007 - Witnesses told a House panel Monday that wounded U.S. soldiers are forced to struggle against a nightmarish and untrustworthy Army medical system that leaves veterans stranded in unfit conditions.

Two Iraq war veterans and the wife of a third gave heartbreaking, at times stunning, tales of neglect at the now notorious Walter Reed Army Medical Center."

"Conservative Rep. Michele Bachmann is taking heat from the nation's largest combat veterans' organization for proposing, as part of a broad list of spending cuts, a combination of reductions and caps in veterans' benefits."


The first one I can see you saying something like blah blah blah, it's really Obama's fault and he wants to cut Veterans and he's just doing this for political reasons, but the shoe sure does fit on the other foot. Republicans are wanting to pass the very bare minimum that they can get away with while spending it in other places, while the current administration wants our veterans taken care of. On all the others, I'm really waiting to hear your excuses.

No, I don't need to say any of that. All I need to do is point to almost every line in your post. See where it says "Republicans", I'll give you a second....didja go back and look? I said Conservatives. Nice try.

 

[pnwmystery]

No, I don't need to say any of that. All I need to do is point to almost every line in your post. See where it says "Republicans", I'll give you a second....didja go back and look? I said Conservatives. Nice try.

Oh so suddenly Republicans are liberals now? Or are they actually a conservative party? Well let's take a look at what the GOP says about their views... " It will take honest results-oriented, conservative leadership to enact good policies for our people." Oh shit. Ruh roh.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Conservatives are cool with taking care of soldiers who receive injuries during their service and taking care of them exceptionally well. However, once a soldier has transitioned out of the military, if he/she has no injuries, they're on their own.

It's amazing how the left continues to conveniently add so many things to the list of "rights".

Healthcare isn't a right, unless you're talking the right to administer it to yourself. All through human history, doctors have been paid for providing a service. You have no more "right" to their skills and labor than you do to the pastries of the local baker.

Why do you have a right to a police officers skills or a firefighters skills or a soldiers skills for that matter?

 

[green217]

I haven't voted for a republican in over a decade.

Now here's where even though I think pubs suck, I think dems are whiny, dishonest, idiots.

You passed a bill without one single republican vote, (or one, can't remember exactly). This means it was passed strictly across party lines. You could have put free unicorns and bikini waxes and it would not have gotten any more pub votes then it did.

How in the fuck, given those facts, can you say the bill would have been better, but republicans? You had to buy off your own party to get this p.o.s. to pass. Think about that, you had to make promises, back room deals, and bribes to your own party, insurance companies, pharma and hospital corps just to pass what you wanted. Now that's it passed and people realize it wasn't what was promised, it's because pubs. How does that even make sense? You could pass anything you wanted, you passed this. Own it at least.

One thing I'm seeing pubs do these days is admit how much their party sucks. If the dems had any honesty or intelligence they would do the same and maybe we could have real change. Instead, we get herp derp pubs fault derp!
What the dems did to health care in this country is unforgivable. It's only unforgivable because none of you are asking for forgiveness, you are just blaming the other guy for your shit. If you guys would have admitted to yourselves you were duped, it was your party's fault they lied, your fault for believing the lies, we might have actually been able to come up with something better. Something that didn't entrench everything that was wrong with healthcare even deeper.

Watching the healthcare debacle unfold made me hate the democratic party and the democrats who blindly waved their pom poms telling us how great it was. Now that it's shown how bad it is, the pom poms are put down and "It's their fault" is picked up. You guys suck as humans.

They all fucking suck none of them are for me or you, they only care about the 1%.

 

[ginwilly]

They all fucking suck none of them are for me or you, they only care about the 1%.

I think it's actually 1% of the 1%. They don't mind raising taxes on doctors and lawyers and people who work for a living, it's the investment guys that are getting all of the favors.

 

[ginwilly]

Oh really? Conservatives are cool with taking care of veterans?

"While Congressional Republicans wave the flag with one hand, they are trying to cut benefits for 70,000 veterans with the other. President Obama has vowed to veto the bill, and House Democrats are promising to sustain that veto.

On Tuesday, President Obama threatened to veto the Republican bill, “The Administration strongly opposes House passage of H.R. 2029, making appropriations for military construction, the Department of Veterans Affairs, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2016, and for other purposes. The bill fails to fully fund critical priorities, including veterans’ medical care and military and VA construction. Furthermore, the legislation includes a highly problematic ideological rider that would constrain the President’s ability to protect our national security. If the President were presented with H.R. 2029, his senior advisors would recommend that he veto the bill.”"

"Senate GOP Obstructionists Throw Veterans Under The Bus-Vote Down Bill To Help Vets In Need Of Jobs"

"the Chairperson of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs announced on Thursday that at least one Republican Senator was holding up a bill which would provide a cost of living adjustment (COLA) on benefits for disabled veterans and the spouses and children of deceased veterans."

"Forty Republican members of the United States Senate betrayed veterans today when they decided that denying President Obama a victory was more important than spending $1 billion to create jobs for vets."

"GOP Voted Against 7 Bills to Help Veterans

H.R. 466 – Wounded Veteran Job Security Act became H. R. 2875.

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 – Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1172 -- Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act"

"Veterans Affairs Secretary Bob McDonald told the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention here on Tuesday that veterans are being hurt by an ideology in Washington that demands huge VA budget cuts and a system that will keep the best qualified people from joining the department."

""Republicans beat back a Democratic attempt to provide almost $2 billion in additional health care funding for veterans. rejecting claims that Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are in crisis.""

"The U.S. Marshal Service announced Tuesday that it had captured one of America’s Most Wanted fugitives who is accused of creating a fake charity for Navy veterans that funneled some of the $100 million collected to Republican candidates....

Republican Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli reportedly personally pleaded with Thompson for donations and received $55,000 for his effort, making Thompson Cuccinelli's second-largest donor. Cuccinelli was eventually forced to turn over the tainted money to veterans support groups."

"2007 - Questions are being raised about the new commander in charge of the Army's Walter Reed Army Medical Center, a day after the previous general in charge was fired.

The shuffle at Walter Reed takes place two weeks after a series of articles in The Washington Post exposed troubling conditions at the Washington, D.C., facility."

"2007 - Witnesses told a House panel Monday that wounded U.S. soldiers are forced to struggle against a nightmarish and untrustworthy Army medical system that leaves veterans stranded in unfit conditions.

Two Iraq war veterans and the wife of a third gave heartbreaking, at times stunning, tales of neglect at the now notorious Walter Reed Army Medical Center."

"Conservative Rep. Michele Bachmann is taking heat from the nation's largest combat veterans' organization for proposing, as part of a broad list of spending cuts, a combination of reductions and caps in veterans' benefits."


The first one I can see you saying something like blah blah blah, it's really Obama's fault and he wants to cut Veterans and he's just doing this for political reasons, but the shoe sure does fit on the other foot. Republicans are wanting to pass the very bare minimum that they can get away with while spending it in other places, while the current administration wants our veterans taken care of. On all the others, I'm really waiting to hear your excuses.

Money for veterans has tripled during a time when most of the WWII vets have died off.

Money is not a problem for the VA but when you can't think past first level checkers, it will always be the answer.

We've tripled the money but it still sucks. Obviously that's because we should have quadrupled the money or quintupled....