First Democratic Debate on Tue. Oct. 13, You guys tuning in?

MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Why do you have a right to a police officers skills or a firefighters skills or a soldiers skills for that matter?
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A right? Absolutely not. If they are paid, they can elect to provide those skills. If they choose to sign a contract, they may be compelled to provide those skills. Beyond that, you have no right to their skills or labor.
 
pnwmystery

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
Money for veterans has tripled during a time when most of the WWII vets have died off.

Money is not a problem for the VA but when you can't think past first level checkers, it will always be the answer.

We've tripled the money but it still sucks. Obviously that's because we should have quadrupled the money or quintupled....
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Well 1) there is such a thing as inflation so saying "We should spend the same exact amount of money we did in 1945 now in 2015" is not a good argument. 2) Should we cut services? No.
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
pnwmystery said:
Oh so suddenly Republicans are liberals now? Or are they actually a conservative party? Well let's take a look at what the GOP says about their views... " It will take honest results-oriented, conservative leadership to enact good policies for our people." Oh shit. Ruh roh.
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Again, your mistake is confusing Republicans and the GOP with Conservatives. Calling yourself a rockstar doesn't mean you are one if you can't play a note.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
A right? Absolutely not. If they are paid, they can elect to provide those skills. If they choose to sign a contract, they may be compelled to provide those skills. Beyond that, you have no right to their skills or labor.
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If I pay for something, am I not entitled to what I paid for?
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
pnwmystery said:
Well 1) there is such a thing as inflation so saying "We should spend the same exact amount of money we did in 1945 now in 2015" is not a good argument. 2) Should we cut services? No.
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You make an excellent point, if inflation is 300% since 2000. Is that your claim?

Look at your argument pnw, first you said it was because pukes cut funding when in fact funding has tripled, now it's inflation so we should spend more now than in 1945. Another reason to hate the dem party, it's more important to win an argument then tell the truth. I've never seen a bigger collection of ends justify the means type people and it's gross.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Not GOP said:
just name calling? I hate to see it from you Cheesy. You're so much better than that....
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lol you new here? search his name and racist. He has more posts calling someone a racist than most people here have posts. His percentage of posts calling people racist might even be higher than the village idiot's. That's his go to argument.
 
pnwmystery

pnwmystery

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
You make an excellent point, if inflation is 300% since 2000. Is that your claim?

Look at your argument pnw, first you said it was because pukes cut funding when in fact funding has tripled, now it's inflation so we should spend more now than in 1945. Another reason to hate the dem party, it's more important to win an argument then tell the truth. I've never seen a bigger collection of ends justify the means type people and it's gross.
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Whoopsies misunderstood your statement my mistake. I thought you said since WWII, but where in fact you said "Since WWII veterans are dying off." However, should WWII veterans be the only people entitled to this? Nah, and has spending tripled since 2000? Hardly.



Here we can clearly see it's only increased 104% 2001-2009, so that's hardly triple. You can keep trying to deny it all you want, but it's Republicans who want to cut a lot of the VA benefits and not the other way around. The excuse that "We shouldn't need to spend more money," is a little bit of a poor one when healthcare costs have been going up, and in the long term we want to try to bring them down by a single payer system (look to just about every other 1st world nation with universal healthcare, it's cheap and the argument that their populations are smaller than ours doesn't fly). However, once again, should we be cutting benefits to veterans? And why should we be cutting their benefits? We already know VA hospitals are pretty bad so should we just get rid of them or should we try to bolster them?
 
Not GOP

Not GOP

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
lol you new here? search his name and racist. He has more posts calling someone a racist than most people here have posts. His percentage of posts calling people racist might even be higher than the village idiot's. That's his go to argument.
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AAwww come on... Give him some time to work up an argument. For all we know, he has the text equivalent of a speech impediment. I believe that there is always a little bit of good in everybody.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
pnwmystery said:
Whoopsies misunderstood your statement my mistake. I thought you said since WWII, but where in fact you said "Since WWII veterans are dying off." However, should WWII veterans be the only people entitled to this? Nah, and has spending tripled since 2000? Hardly.



Here we can clearly see it's only increased 104% 2001-2009, so that's hardly triple. You can keep trying to deny it all you want, but it's Republicans who want to cut a lot of the VA benefits and not the other way around. The excuse that "We shouldn't need to spend more money," is a little bit of a poor one when healthcare costs have been going up, and in the long term we want to try to bring them down by a single payer system (look to just about every other 1st world nation with universal healthcare, it's cheap and the argument that their populations are smaller than ours doesn't fly).

However, once again, should we be cutting benefits to veterans? And why should we be cutting their benefits?
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Takes a lib to call a decrease in the increase a cut.

I'll give you chance to actually look up 2015 numbers and retract what you are trying to pass off with 2009 numbers. Look up the new proposed 2016 budget by Obama and ask why he's trying to take away the VA choice program after promising it to veterans last year. But those damn pubs.....

Funding was as follows for the years you chose to ignore:

2009:$97.7 billion;

2010:$127.2 billion;

2011: $125.5 billion;

2012: $126.8 billion;

2013: $139.1 billion;

2014: $153.8 billion;

2015: $163.9 billion.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/politics/fact-check/2014/05/23/az-fact-check-obama-va-funding-increases/9464699/

Keep trying, keep saying it's a funding problem in spite of gems like this
Miller said he is committed to providing VA “the resources it needs” but warned that the budget would be tightly scrutinized and called Obama’s proposal to reallocate some money from the Veterans Choice Act to other areas of the VA a “non-starter.”

“For its part, VA has left hundreds of millions in health care funding unspent since 2010 as thousands of veterans languished on waiting lists and squandered more than $1 billion on a host of botched construction projects, acquisition failures and extravagant employee conferences,” Miller said. “That’s why we will ensure President Obama’s Fiscal Year 2016 VA budget request receives the scrutiny it is due over the coming weeks.”

Oh yeah, all they need is more money. Even though we are spending historically high amounts never before reached by the VA, if we just spend more it would solve the problem.

Nope, intellectually lazy people should not run the country. If you can't solve a problem without taking more money from them, then you need to let someone else try.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
pnwmystery said:
Whoopsies misunderstood your statement my mistake. I thought you said since WWII, but where in fact you said "Since WWII veterans are dying off." However, should WWII veterans be the only people entitled to this? Nah, and has spending tripled since 2000? Hardly.



Here we can clearly see it's only increased 104% 2001-2009, so that's hardly triple. You can keep trying to deny it all you want, but it's Republicans who want to cut a lot of the VA benefits and not the other way around. The excuse that "We shouldn't need to spend more money," is a little bit of a poor one when healthcare costs have been going up, and in the long term we want to try to bring them down by a single payer system (look to just about every other 1st world nation with universal healthcare, it's cheap and the argument that their populations are smaller than ours doesn't fly). However, once again, should we be cutting benefits to veterans? And why should we be cutting their benefits? We already know VA hospitals are pretty bad so should we just get rid of them or should we try to bolster them?
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IMO, when we made the commitment to enter into 2 decades long wars, that's when we wrote the check for veterans benefits 100%. I'm probably one of the biggest critics of the military-industrial complex, but if you send Americans to fight in a war, you are morally obligated to provide everything they need when they come home. Veterans waiting in line for months and years to receive treatment, many of them dying during the waiting periods, is completely unacceptable. It's the same kind of deal with the 9/11 first responders and all the health problems associated with cleaning up the attacks, republicans in congress fought to defund their healthcare treatment and it took Jon Stewart putting pressure on them via the Daily Show to change it.

Republicans want to send Americans to fight in wars, but they don't want to pay for their medical treatment when they come home half blown apart or with PTSD or brain trauma.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
pnwmystery said:
Oh really? Conservatives are cool with taking care of veterans?

"While Congressional Republicans wave the flag with one hand, they are trying to cut benefits for 70,000 veterans with the other. President Obama has vowed to veto the bill, and House Democrats are promising to sustain that veto.

On Tuesday, President Obama threatened to veto the Republican bill, “The Administration strongly opposes House passage of H.R. 2029, making appropriations for military construction, the Department of Veterans Affairs, and related agencies for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2016, and for other purposes. The bill fails to fully fund critical priorities, including veterans’ medical care and military and VA construction. Furthermore, the legislation includes a highly problematic ideological rider that would constrain the President’s ability to protect our national security. If the President were presented with H.R. 2029, his senior advisors would recommend that he veto the bill.”"

"Senate GOP Obstructionists Throw Veterans Under The Bus-Vote Down Bill To Help Vets In Need Of Jobs"

"the Chairperson of the U.S. Senate Committee on Veterans’ Affairs announced on Thursday that at least one Republican Senator was holding up a bill which would provide a cost of living adjustment (COLA) on benefits for disabled veterans and the spouses and children of deceased veterans."

"Forty Republican members of the United States Senate betrayed veterans today when they decided that denying President Obama a victory was more important than spending $1 billion to create jobs for vets."

"GOP Voted Against 7 Bills to Help Veterans

H.R. 466 – Wounded Veteran Job Security Act became H. R. 2875.

H.R. 1168 -- Veterans Retraining Act

H.R. 1171 – Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program Reauthorization

H.R. 1172 -- Requiring List on VA Website of Organizations Providing Scholarships for Veterans

H.R. 1293 -- Disabled Veterans Home Improvement and Structural Alteration Grant Increase Act of 2009

H.R. 1803 -- Veterans Business Center Act

H.R. 2352 – Job Creation Through Entrepreneurship Act"

"Veterans Affairs Secretary Bob McDonald told the Veterans of Foreign Wars convention here on Tuesday that veterans are being hurt by an ideology in Washington that demands huge VA budget cuts and a system that will keep the best qualified people from joining the department."

""Republicans beat back a Democratic attempt to provide almost $2 billion in additional health care funding for veterans. rejecting claims that Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are in crisis.""

"The U.S. Marshal Service announced Tuesday that it had captured one of America’s Most Wanted fugitives who is accused of creating a fake charity for Navy veterans that funneled some of the $100 million collected to Republican candidates....

Republican Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli reportedly personally pleaded with Thompson for donations and received $55,000 for his effort, making Thompson Cuccinelli's second-largest donor. Cuccinelli was eventually forced to turn over the tainted money to veterans support groups."

"2007 - Questions are being raised about the new commander in charge of the Army's Walter Reed Army Medical Center, a day after the previous general in charge was fired.

The shuffle at Walter Reed takes place two weeks after a series of articles in The Washington Post exposed troubling conditions at the Washington, D.C., facility."

"2007 - Witnesses told a House panel Monday that wounded U.S. soldiers are forced to struggle against a nightmarish and untrustworthy Army medical system that leaves veterans stranded in unfit conditions.

Two Iraq war veterans and the wife of a third gave heartbreaking, at times stunning, tales of neglect at the now notorious Walter Reed Army Medical Center."

"Conservative Rep. Michele Bachmann is taking heat from the nation's largest combat veterans' organization for proposing, as part of a broad list of spending cuts, a combination of reductions and caps in veterans' benefits."


The first one I can see you saying something like blah blah blah, it's really Obama's fault and he wants to cut Veterans and he's just doing this for political reasons, but the shoe sure does fit on the other foot. Republicans are wanting to pass the very bare minimum that they can get away with while spending it in other places, while the current administration wants our veterans taken care of. On all the others, I'm really waiting to hear your excuses.
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Thanks for clearing that up! The only time a republican is interested in service personnel is at recruitment time. After that, they're just grist for the mill, live bodies to man the sexy toys that 'earn' their makers billions... all paid for by the hapless taxpayer, all but completely shut out of any part of the decision making process.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
IMO, when we made the commitment to enter into 2 decades long wars, that's when we wrote the check for veterans benefits 100%. I'm probably one of the biggest critics of the military-industrial complex, but if you send Americans to fight in a war, you are morally obligated to provide everything they need when they come home. Veterans waiting in line for months and years to receive treatment, many of them dying during the waiting periods, is completely unacceptable. It's the same kind of deal with the 9/11 first responders and all the health problems associated with cleaning up the attacks, republicans in congress fought to defund their healthcare treatment and it took Jon Stewart putting pressure on them via the Daily Show to change it.

Republicans want to send Americans to fight in wars, but they don't want to pay for their medical treatment when they come home half blown apart or with PTSD or brain trauma.
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TELL IT!
 
Blunted 4 lyfe

Blunted 4 lyfe

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
No, I don't need to say any of that. All I need to do is point to almost every line in your post. See where it says "Republicans", I'll give you a second....didja go back and look? I said Conservatives. Nice try.
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Those were exactly who voted against those bill namely tea party/freedom caucus and where are they? In the House. Who is in charge of the House? Republicans.

Republicans/conservatives same shit.

B4L
 
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