Is financial success more often a result of hard work or a consequence of circumstances?

[bearkat42]

What is the definition of "success" in this particular instance?

 

[althor]

I think hard work is important, but a good plan and a little luck go a long way. You can dig ditches all day and get nowhere. You can contract ditch digging jobs and hire people to do it for you and make bank. In that case the ones doing the hard work are making others successful.

But yeah, I've never met a successful person that only works 40hrs/week or less. Hell, most doctors work 100 hrs, but they are the evil 1% and we need to take their money because 7-12 years of college and working 100 hrs/week doesn't mean they earn it, they are just taking from everyone else.



Same experience when I was a teen working a warehouse job. I thought I would work hard and impress people. I was told to slow down and when I was ahead with my work I had to help others catch up. You got punished for doing more work with more work. You got rewarded doing less work by having less work to do. It was definitely motivation to go to college. I have never been wired like that.

Yes Ginwilly, many times the hard worker is the one who is "punished for it". You finish your work then go do someone else's work and you are both making the same wages.

Doctors and lawyers are usually the offspring of the decade priors drs and lawyers. They are usually the only ones that can afford the schooling required. And the reason that most doctors don't even want to be drs and it shows.
People in general are quite dumb and will complain about waiting an hour to see a Dr but will gladly pay 200$ to go see an entertainer play a sport or sing songs.
Priorities and expectation play a role here aswell.

Oh I disagree completely about complaining about waiting an hour for a doctor. That is complete bullshit. Why have an appointment when you (and they) know there is no way they will be seeing you at your appointment time?

That pisses me off and when I have options, I leave. If I can be on time so can they.

 

[ginwilly]

Yes Ginwilly, many times the hard worker is the one who is "punished for it". You finish your work then go do someone else's work and you are both making the same wages.

That's the union mentality that destroyed our auto industry, and hurt the steel industry. Steel workers in are in DC now demanding a bailout. It's not getting any attention though, steel is dirty...

 

[torontoke]

Yes Ginwilly, many times the hard worker is the one who is "punished for it". You finish your work then go do someone else's work and you are both making the same wages.

Oh I disagree completely about complaining about waiting an hour for a doctor. That is complete bullshit. Why have an appointment when you (and they) know there is no way they will be seeing you at your appointment time?

That pisses me off and when I have options, I leave. If I can be on time so can they.

I don't disagree with you!
That drives me insane. I have 4 different drs and spend at least 10-15 hours a month in waiting rooms each month.
But it's because the Drs don't give a rats ass. They didn't even want to be Drs to begin with. So they overbook to make as much as possible.

 

[ginwilly]

Doctors and lawyers are usually the offspring of the decade priors drs and lawyers. They are usually the only ones that can afford the schooling required. And the reason that most doctors don't even want to be drs and it shows.
People in general are quite dumb and will complain about waiting an hour to see a Dr but will gladly pay 200$ to go see an entertainer play a sport or sing songs.
Priorities and expectation play a role here aswell.

I met a lot of second and third generation doctors, a few rich kid docs and a lot of broke ones that worked through school and are up to their eyeballs in debt. You can tell a difference for sure. There's quite a few that started in the medical field as something else and went back to school while working as a nurse or pharmacist. Those don't seem to have the superiority complex the offspring do.

Cool story bro time. We've all heard of Ty Cobb the baseball player but his Dad was a doctor that had his school paid for by his own doctor with the caveat that he pays it forward. It's been going on for generations, I think they are up to the 5th one now. Thought it was cool, thought I'd share.

 

[ttystikk]

Still waiting for @Padawanbater2 to show us the depressing statistics.

Having known many members and scions of ultra rich families, I can say that all of the above discussion comes from the perspective of have-nots.

The haves know what they have and keep the vast majority of it locked safely away in trusts and safe investments, living only off the interest. But that isn't risk and it isn't working for a living. This is why our country looks more and more like an aristocracy. And it's why, even if the guy is a worthless waste of skin drug addict, he'll likely have a LOT more in his trust account the day he dies than most of us will ever earn.

And that is WRONG.

 

[bravedave]

Hard work without opportunity just makes others rich.
A majority of the wealthiest people were handed money or their opportunity to hoard it.
.

The statement above is utterly false. The was a recent study, I can find, that puts the rate of self made millionaires at about 67% and those inheriting at only 8%.
What orifice of what propagandist did you pull your information from?
Did Cheesusrice ooze out at the same time? Do you liberals ever deal in the truth? Is it because you know like-minded liberals are too stupid, or ignorant to realize they are being lied to?

 

[ginwilly]

I don't disagree with you!
That drives me insane. I have 4 different drs and spend at least 10-15 hours a month in meeting rooms each month.
But it's because the Drs don't give a rats ass. They didn't even want to be Drs to begin with. So they overbook to make as much as possible.

I've seen doctors called to the hospital for an emergency and leave patients in the waiting room without letting them know. Hey, I get that emergencies happen, just tell me and I'll come back later, don't make me sit here for hours.

Those are the ones who bother me the most. I understand your time is more valuable in a monetary sense mr doc, but my time is just as valuable to me.

 

[torontoke]

The statement above is utterly false. The was a recent study, I can find, that puts the rate of self made millionaires at about 67% and those inheriting at only 8%.
What orifice of what propagandist did you pull your information from?
Did Cheesusrice ooze out at the same time? Do you liberals ever deal in the truth? Is it because you know like-minded liberals are too stupid, or ignorant to realize they are being lied to?

I wish I were the arguing for the sake of arguing type but I'm not.
So your right brave Dave discussion over you've convinced us all with your witty banter and top notch stats.

 

[UncleBuck]

Hard work is sometimes thwarted by liberal mindsets.

you wouldn't last a day working with me and my neighbor, both dyed in the wool liberals who listen to NPR n the way to work and meditative zen music on our phones as we work.

you probably wouldn't even make it to lunch.

why? because you are stupid.

 

[UncleBuck]

I've never met a successful person that only works 40hrs/week or less.

you should meet my pa in law. pulling in a good half million a year, on vacation for more than half of it.

 

[UncleBuck]

That's the union mentality that destroyed our auto industry, and hurt the steel industry.

if we wanted to hear a whole bunch of unsupported, nonsense fox news talking points, we'd tune in to fox news.

head on back to your klan chapter, steve. you'll be more appreciated there.

 

[UncleBuck]

What orifice of what propagandist did you pull your information from?
Did Cheesusrice ooze out at the same time? Do you liberals ever deal in the truth? Is it because you know like-minded liberals are too stupid, or ignorant to realize they are being lied to?

were you aware that global warming is real, manmade, and that it is not simply a conspiracy being perpetrated by NASA to give you tax breaks on energy efficient appliances?

 

[ttystikk]

The statement above is utterly false. The was a recent study, I can find, that puts the rate of self made millionaires at about 67% and those inheriting at only 8%.
What orifice of what propagandist did you pull your information from?
Did Cheesusrice ooze out at the same time? Do you liberals ever deal in the truth? Is it because you know like-minded liberals are too stupid, or ignorant to realize they are being lied to?

Those statistics are wildly out of date. Quoting fifty year old stats is not going to build credibility.

 

[UncleBuck]

Those statistics are wildly out of date. Quoting fifty year old stats is not going to build credibility.

he hasn't even cited those stats, so we can ignore them completely.

that which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed the same way.

 

[ttystikk]

he hasn't even cited those stats, so we can ignore them completely.

that which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed the same way.

An excellent point. What do you think of my assessment of wealth in this country?;

Still waiting for @Padawanbater2 to show us the depressing statistics.

Having known many members and scions of ultra rich families, I can say that all of the above discussion comes from the perspective of have-nots.

The haves know what they have and keep the vast majority of it locked safely away in trusts and safe investments, living only off the interest. But that isn't risk and it isn't working for a living. This is why our country looks more and more like an aristocracy. And it's why, even if the guy is a worthless waste of skin drug addict, he'll likely have a LOT more in his trust account the day he dies than most of us will ever earn.

And that is WRONG.

 

[UncleBuck]

An excellent point. What do you think of my assessment of wealth in this country?;

i agree that we do not have a meritocracy in the slightest.

tht brings us back to another thread padawan started, where he pointed out that rich high school dropout losers do better in life than poor people who do very well in college.

a hefty, hefty inheritance tax would solve that one though.

 

[ttystikk]

i agree that we do not have a meritocracy in the slightest.

tht brings us back to another thread padawan started, where he pointed out that rich high school dropout losers do better in life than poor people who do very well in college.

a hefty, hefty inheritance tax would solve that one though.

You mean like the 'death tax' our Founding Fathers enacted, because they knew that aristocracies were inimical to the idea of a People's Democracy?

 

[UncleBuck]

You mean like the 'death tax' our Founding Fathers enacted, because they knew that aristocracies were inimical to the idea of a People's Democracy?

i believe that progressive republican theodore roosevel championed the estate tax, actually. but yes.

"We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community … The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and … a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate."

 

[ttystikk]

i believe that progressive republican theodore roosevel championed the estate tax, actually. but yes.

"We grudge no man a fortune in civil life if it is honorably obtained and well used. It is not even enough that it should have been gained without doing damage to the community. We should permit it to be gained only so long as the gaining represents benefit to the community … The really big fortune, the swollen fortune, by the mere fact of its size, acquires qualities which differentiate it in kind as well as in degree from what is possessed by men of relatively small means. Therefore, I believe in a graduated income tax on big fortunes, and … a graduated inheritance tax on big fortunes, properly safeguarded against evasion, and increasing rapidly in amount with the size of the estate."

I believe there was a sizeable estate tax from the foundation of the Union, but I'm not certain.