banana's = more females

outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
Haha this reminds me of the myth that drying banana skin and ripping it will get you bent. Yes, a mate and I debunked that over 25 years ago.

I do a bit of a tribal rain dance and war cry to get my female ratio up. If I were high enough, I'd probably believe it actually works too :bigjoint:

Each to their own. No bananas going into my tent, green or otherwise. That would be bug suicide where I live.

I might bang the wife in my tent before my next grow. See if some actual female hormones can increase the number of ladies :hump:
 
jebcorlis

jebcorlis

Active Member
outlier said:
Haha this reminds me of the myth that drying banana skin and ripping it will get you bent. Yes, a mate and I debunked that over 25 years ago.

I do a bit of a tribal rain dance and war cry to get my female ratio up. If I were high enough, I'd probably believe it actually works too :bigjoint:

Each to their own. No bananas going into my tent, green or otherwise. That would be bug suicide where I live.

I might bang the wife in my tent before my next grow. See if some actual female hormones can increase the number of ladies :hump:
Click to expand...
I actually did that banged the missus in the tent cause she got horny as we were setting it up Hahaha all jokes aside though the bannanas do give of ethylene and that combined with an optimum environment does produce more females
 
outlier

outlier

Well-Known Member
jebcorlis said:
I actually did that banged the missus in the tent cause she got horny as we were setting it up Hahaha all jokes aside though the bannanas do give of ethylene and that combined with an optimum environment does produce more females
Click to expand...
Haha! I wasn't implying that you are wrong. It's just not something I can't afford to try, not here in this bug thriving environment.

I would've thought plant sex is determined by a chromosome, similar to how the sex of a human-being is determined. But I know SFA about it, so am not qualified to say.

I will still continue my own rituals though. And yes, I'm trying to tee up the wife to test out my new theory. She's not that impressed though :bigjoint:
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
I believe some plants can feel the chemical nature in its environment via its stomata's. I also believe they can feel radiation regardless of spectrum.
Not sure if ethylene actually promotes flowering, but the plant should feel etethylene if it is present.
This whole chemical radiation thing is just a personal belief. I have not tried it with scientific data, therefore its just bullshit in my head

Interesting pdf.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.ijeat.org/attachments/File/v3i5/E3165063514.pdf&ved=0CDIQFjAHahUKEwi6yfWOgPvIAhVX2mMKHfVODE0&usg=AFQjCNF4XzRXiSS9Iof7i9W17vU4j6w9YA
 
SPLFreak808

SPLFreak808

Well-Known Member
outlier said:
Haha this reminds me of the myth that drying banana skin and ripping it will get you bent. Yes, a mate and I debunked that over 25 years ago.

I do a bit of a tribal rain dance and war cry to get my female ratio up. If I were high enough, I'd probably believe it actually works too :bigjoint:

Each to their own. No bananas going into my tent, green or otherwise. That would be bug suicide where I live.

I might bang the wife in my tent before my next grow. See if some actual female hormones can increase the number of ladies :hump:
Click to expand...
Lol! Did you forget the methylene chloride?
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
jebcorlis said:
I will say again I put 1 bunch of bananas in with seedlings and I get no males my environment is also dialed in perfectly the bananas are green and I take them out when they yellow and I eat them.

Try it, you don't let anything go rotten, it is a fact that thia works you should just give it a go
Click to expand...
Jeb, How much of an effect on the results do you think this point has?

I'm NOT saying it has no effect (banana's) YET. Nor am I saying that all that information that came from that exact "book", Is bogus.
I question the true power and actual truth of the alleged "effect" it's self.
Hold on, let me check something here.

Using the "Google" method and asking "How to make seeds produce more females" I got these and found NO reference to the use of ethylene gas to effect seed sex....I'll give you my conclusions on this idea of ethylene at the end.

http://bcseeds.com/how-to-produce-more-females-from-seed-a-5.html

In the next link the writer brings up the fact that feminized seeds can and do produce male plants. He talks about how to avoid that problem and goes on to basically cover the same ground as the first - NO ETHYLENE mentioned.
http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/how-to-improve-female-male-ratio-of-cannabis-plant.html

This link, again contains the same stuff - NO GAS
https://cannabisgrowing.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/top-7-tips-to-grow-more-female-plants-from-standard-cannabis-seeds/

Now the pages add up and I get no mention of ethylene gas use......
Now I put in using ethylene gas.....One method is to use the peels from 2 bananas and change every 3 days for 5-6 times....15 to 16 days of exposure......Interesting, takes a while eh?

Found someone who did the estrogen and says he got very poor results. Why do I feel that problem was environmental in his grow....

Here is Jorge Cervantes's High Times piece from this year.....There is NO seed treatment spoken of in this. Only the treatment of seedlings! Now this makes a LOT more sense to me as the most critical time in the the plant becoming one sex or the other is in weeks 3-4 and I use the lower lighting time to help myself - NO 24/0 for me.....Anyway Jorge talks about gassing the seedlings - not seeds in this piece.

http://www.hightimes.com/read/jorges-cannabis-encyclopedia-ensure-female-seedlings

This is interesting - "Ethylene gas impacts ABA and other plant stress hormones." Hmm......now what do you think that effects? I would be inclined to say - REVERSAL, as stress makes herming a worry late in bloom! This makes sense as running your plant for too long in bloom tends to bring out naners...

Enough of this! To many links to nothing but forums. Time to cross ref this in some text books....back soon

Here's the first thing I found
List of Plant Responses to Ethylene

* Seedling triple response, thickening and shortening of hypocotyl with pronounced apical hook. This is thought to be a seedling's reaction to an obstacle in the soil such a stone, allowing it to push past the obstruction.
* In pollination, when the pollen reaches the stigma, the precursor of the ethylene, ACC, is secreted to the petal, the ACC releases ethylene with ACC oxidase.
* Stimulates leaf and flower senescence
* Stimulates senescence of mature xylem cells in preparation for plant use
* Inhibits shoot growth except in some habitually flooded plants like rice
* Induces leaf abscission
* Induces seed germination
* Induces root hair growth – increasing the efficiency of water and mineral absorption
* Induces the growth of adventitious roots during flooding
* Stimulates epinasty – leaf petiole grows out, leaf hangs down and curls into itself
* Stimulates fruit ripening
* Induces a climacteric rise in respiration in some fruit which causes a release of additional ethylene. This can be the one bad apple in a barrel spoiling the rest phenomenon.
* Affects neighboring individuals
* Disease/wounding resistance
* Triple response when applied to seedlings – stem elongation slows, the stem thickens, and curvature causes the stem to start growing horizontally. This strategy is thought to allow a seedling grow around an obstacle
* Inhibits stem growth outside of seedling stage
* Stimulates stem and cell broadening and lateral branch growth also outside of seedling stage
* Synthesis is stimulated by auxin and maybe cytokinin as well
* Ethylene levels are decreased by light
* The flooding of roots stimulates the production of ACC which travels through the xylem to the stem and leaves where it is converted to the gas
* Interference with auxin transport (with high auxin concentrations)
* Inhibits stomatal closing except in some water plants or habitually flooded ones such as some rice varieties, where the opposite occurs (conserving CO2 and O2)
* Where ethylene induces stomatal closing, it also induces stem elongation
* Induces flowering in pineapples

Now this is from a paper from Cornell University on plant Hormones.

Ethylene

Nature: The gas ethylene (C2H4) is synthesized from methionine in many tissues in response to stress. It does not seem to be essential for normal vegetative growth. It is the only hydrocarbon with a pronounced effect on plants.

Sites of Biosynthesis: Ethylene is synthesized by most tissues in response to stress. In particular, it is synthesized in tissues undergoing senescence or ripening.

Transport:Being a gas, ethylene moves by diffusion from its site of synthesis.

Effects:


  • Release from dormancy.
  • Shoot and root growth and differentiation.
  • Adventitious root formation.
  • Leaf and fruit abscission.
  • Flower induction in some plants.
  • Induction of femaleness in dioecious flowers.
  • Flower opening.
  • Flower and leaf senescence.
  • Fruit ripening.
Commercial uses:

Ethylene enjoys a wide variety of uses, but its gaseous nature precludes its use in nonenclosed spaces. Ethylene itself can be used to enhance the ripening of fruits such as bananas in storage following their shipment in an unripe condition; this is of great benefit, since the green bananas are rugged and do not bruise or spoil easily. The tender ripe bananas can then be carried safely to market from the nearby warehouse. Recently, an ethylene-producing liquid chemical, 2-chloroethylphosphonic acid (commercially called Ethrel or Ethephon) has been introduced into commerce. This compound is sprayed onto the plant at a slightly acid pH. When it enters the cells and encounters the cytoplasm at about neutral pH, it breaks down to release gaseous ethylene. Numerous commercial applications for this compound have appeared, mostly in relation to the natural effects of ethylene:


  • The most important commercial use involves enhancing latex flow in rubber trees in Southeast Asia. When a rubber tree is "tapped," the latex flows for a certain period before the cut seals and the flow stops. Ethephon delays the healing of the cut so that the latex flow continues for a longer period, thus yielding more latex with less tapping.
  • Enhancement of uniform fruit ripening and coloration. This has been shown to be of particular value in field tomatoes picked at a single time by machine.
  • Acceleration of fruit abscission for mechanical harvesting. This provides a potential area of use in a wide variety of fruits such as grapes, cherries, and citrus.
  • Promotion of female flower production in cucurbits (cucumber, squash, melon) so as to increase the number of fruits produced per plant.
  • Promotion of flower initiation and controlled ripening in pineapples.


    After reading several texts, looking for this exact thing (ethylene effecting seeds). I can only find effects upon actual growing plants. It's apparent that ethylene affects growing seedlings to be predominately more female in expression!

    Here's something that is available as a pdf on exactly this point

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjTyN2y-_vIAhXKOz4KHTlaBX4&url=https://pbsociety.org.pl/journals/index.php/asbp/article/download/asbp.1978.013/4115&usg=AFQjCNHVdVizLbGrh7EJdHgZ8S-GLawWKQ&sig2=li-6p4mvUvLznqaJpuSO3Q


    There is no available actual scientific information on the exact subject.
    I must therefor conclude that the effect of ethylene on seeds is something that could be possible and yet improbable!

    This is relegated to the list of Cannabis growing hype/myth in my book!

    IF you can find actual science to back up your conclusions - I will then believe this theory!

    DO NOT go back and list that BS Robert A. Nelson/Mobius Rex nonsense of a cut and paste job interspersed with complete nonfactual gibberish..

    Doc
 
BDOGKush

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
It's pretty amusing you all bitch when the info comes from Cervantes, you want scientific proof.

I post a quote from one of the most well respected botanist of the post WW II era and that's still not enough. Dr. Who wants to focus on Robert A Nelson instead of the study by J Heslop Harrison that was being cited.

Not surprising though, everyone on RIU knows everything there is to know about botany and there is nothing left to learn or discuss.
 
BDOGKush

BDOGKush

Well-Known Member
International Journal of Molecular Science

Ethylene (C2H4) was the first example of a gaseous signaling molecule involved in biological systems and was discovered more than a century ago. Ethylene regulates a variety of developmental and stress responses in plants, including seed germination, cell elongation, cell fate, sex determination, fruit ripening, flower senescence, leaf abscission, defense against pathogens, and responses to mechanical trauma and cold and salt stresses.

http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/15/9/16331/pdf
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
BDOGKush said:
In Cannabis, auxins and ethylene have feminizing e€ects (Heslop-Harrison, 1956; Mohan Ram and Jaiswal, 1970) whereas cytokinins and gibberellins have masculinizing e€ects (Atal, 1959; Chailakhan, 1979). "

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/229837627_Auxin_and_Sexuality_in_Cannabis_sativa
Click to expand...
Um, yeah. With all do respect BDOG. That whole thing about ethylene affecting the sex of plants. Is related to the direct exposure to actual plants in every book and paper I have reviewed on the subject in relation to this thread! None of the texts refer to banana's in any shape or form as the source of the gas! It was all supplied by tank.....or as an acid form.....and none of that was used on seeds!

So then. Barring actual findings on the use of ethylene on seeds....I call this as not verifiable and therefore, at best, improbable!

Your on the right track but, to correlate effects on plants vs (an open living thing that is IN the living cycle vs. a rather closed and in effect, non "working" until germinated.) seeds. Is a L-O-N-G stretch and more of a presumptive jump to an improbable conclusion!

It would seem that you bow at the Jorge Cervantes alter. He has many, many good methods and he has some proven bogus belief's...Most book writers do. So what? It's up to you, the grower, to actually find the truth, through either experience or research.

Doing this for as long as I have. You tend to learn to understand what sounds a bit of a reach.
Seeds effected by ethylene make my alarms go off....
Doesn't mean I'm rite, But it remains to be "proven" in my book......I mean just how would you be able to estimate the results as the %'s given?

PEACE, dude!

Doc
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
BDOGKush said:
International Journal of Molecular Science

Ethylene (C2H4) was the first example of a gaseous signaling molecule involved in biological systems and was discovered more than a century ago. Ethylene regulates a variety of developmental and stress responses in plants, including seed germination, cell elongation, cell fate, sex determination, fruit ripening, flower senescence, leaf abscission, defense against pathogens, and responses to mechanical trauma and cold and salt stresses.

http://www.mdpi.com/1422-0067/15/9/16331/pdf
Click to expand...
I read that.
You need to read all 20 pages......The relationship given for seed germination is not correlated to sexual determination.....The use of the ethylene in correlation to sexual determination was in the seedling stage as tested.

You jumped to a conclusion by reading 2 pages of 20.....

Doc
 
jebcorlis

jebcorlis

Active Member
Dr. Who said:
Jeb, How much of an effect on the results do you think this point has?

I'm NOT saying it has no effect (banana's) YET. Nor am I saying that all that information that came from that exact "book", Is bogus.
I question the true power and actual truth of the alleged "effect" it's self.
Hold on, let me check something here.

Using the "Google" method and asking "How to make seeds produce more females" I got these and found NO reference to the use of ethylene gas to effect seed sex....I'll give you my conclusions on this idea of ethylene at the end.

http://bcseeds.com/how-to-produce-more-females-from-seed-a-5.html

In the next link the writer brings up the fact that feminized seeds can and do produce male plants. He talks about how to avoid that problem and goes on to basically cover the same ground as the first - NO ETHYLENE mentioned.
http://www.1stmarijuanagrowerspage.com/how-to-improve-female-male-ratio-of-cannabis-plant.html

This link, again contains the same stuff - NO GAS
https://cannabisgrowing.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/top-7-tips-to-grow-more-female-plants-from-standard-cannabis-seeds/

Now the pages add up and I get no mention of ethylene gas use......
Now I put in using ethylene gas.....One method is to use the peels from 2 bananas and change every 3 days for 5-6 times....15 to 16 days of exposure......Interesting, takes a while eh?

Found someone who did the estrogen and says he got very poor results. Why do I feel that problem was environmental in his grow....

Here is Jorge Cervantes's High Times piece from this year.....There is NO seed treatment spoken of in this. Only the treatment of seedlings! Now this makes a LOT more sense to me as the most critical time in the the plant becoming one sex or the other is in weeks 3-4 and I use the lower lighting time to help myself - NO 24/0 for me.....Anyway Jorge talks about gassing the seedlings - not seeds in this piece.

http://www.hightimes.com/read/jorges-cannabis-encyclopedia-ensure-female-seedlings

This is interesting - "Ethylene gas impacts ABA and other plant stress hormones." Hmm......now what do you think that effects? I would be inclined to say - REVERSAL, as stress makes herming a worry late in bloom! This makes sense as running your plant for too long in bloom tends to bring out naners...

Enough of this! To many links to nothing but forums. Time to cross ref this in some text books....back soon

Here's the first thing I found
List of Plant Responses to Ethylene

* Seedling triple response, thickening and shortening of hypocotyl with pronounced apical hook. This is thought to be a seedling's reaction to an obstacle in the soil such a stone, allowing it to push past the obstruction.
* In pollination, when the pollen reaches the stigma, the precursor of the ethylene, ACC, is secreted to the petal, the ACC releases ethylene with ACC oxidase.
* Stimulates leaf and flower senescence
* Stimulates senescence of mature xylem cells in preparation for plant use
* Inhibits shoot growth except in some habitually flooded plants like rice
* Induces leaf abscission
* Induces seed germination
* Induces root hair growth – increasing the efficiency of water and mineral absorption
* Induces the growth of adventitious roots during flooding
* Stimulates epinasty – leaf petiole grows out, leaf hangs down and curls into itself
* Stimulates fruit ripening
* Induces a climacteric rise in respiration in some fruit which causes a release of additional ethylene. This can be the one bad apple in a barrel spoiling the rest phenomenon.
* Affects neighboring individuals
* Disease/wounding resistance
* Triple response when applied to seedlings – stem elongation slows, the stem thickens, and curvature causes the stem to start growing horizontally. This strategy is thought to allow a seedling grow around an obstacle
* Inhibits stem growth outside of seedling stage
* Stimulates stem and cell broadening and lateral branch growth also outside of seedling stage
* Synthesis is stimulated by auxin and maybe cytokinin as well
* Ethylene levels are decreased by light
* The flooding of roots stimulates the production of ACC which travels through the xylem to the stem and leaves where it is converted to the gas
* Interference with auxin transport (with high auxin concentrations)
* Inhibits stomatal closing except in some water plants or habitually flooded ones such as some rice varieties, where the opposite occurs (conserving CO2 and O2)
* Where ethylene induces stomatal closing, it also induces stem elongation
* Induces flowering in pineapples

Now this is from a paper from Cornell University on plant Hormones.

Ethylene

Nature: The gas ethylene (C2H4) is synthesized from methionine in many tissues in response to stress. It does not seem to be essential for normal vegetative growth. It is the only hydrocarbon with a pronounced effect on plants.

Sites of Biosynthesis: Ethylene is synthesized by most tissues in response to stress. In particular, it is synthesized in tissues undergoing senescence or ripening.

Transport:Being a gas, ethylene moves by diffusion from its site of synthesis.

Effects:

  • Release from dormancy.
  • Shoot and root growth and differentiation.
  • Adventitious root formation.
  • Leaf and fruit abscission.
  • Flower induction in some plants.
  • Induction of femaleness in dioecious flowers.
  • Flower opening.
  • Flower and leaf senescence.
  • Fruit ripening.
Commercial uses:
Ethylene enjoys a wide variety of uses, but its gaseous nature precludes its use in nonenclosed spaces. Ethylene itself can be used to enhance the ripening of fruits such as bananas in storage following their shipment in an unripe condition; this is of great benefit, since the green bananas are rugged and do not bruise or spoil easily. The tender ripe bananas can then be carried safely to market from the nearby warehouse. Recently, an ethylene-producing liquid chemical, 2-chloroethylphosphonic acid (commercially called Ethrel or Ethephon) has been introduced into commerce. This compound is sprayed onto the plant at a slightly acid pH. When it enters the cells and encounters the cytoplasm at about neutral pH, it breaks down to release gaseous ethylene. Numerous commercial applications for this compound have appeared, mostly in relation to the natural effects of ethylene:

  • The most important commercial use involves enhancing latex flow in rubber trees in Southeast Asia. When a rubber tree is "tapped," the latex flows for a certain period before the cut seals and the flow stops. Ethephon delays the healing of the cut so that the latex flow continues for a longer period, thus yielding more latex with less tapping.
  • Enhancement of uniform fruit ripening and coloration. This has been shown to be of particular value in field tomatoes picked at a single time by machine.
  • Acceleration of fruit abscission for mechanical harvesting. This provides a potential area of use in a wide variety of fruits such as grapes, cherries, and citrus.
  • Promotion of female flower production in cucurbits (cucumber, squash, melon) so as to increase the number of fruits produced per plant.
  • Promotion of flower initiation and controlled ripening in pineapples.


    After reading several texts, looking for this exact thing (ethylene effecting seeds). I can only find effects upon actual growing plants. It's apparent that ethylene affects growing seedlings to be predominately more female in expression!

    Here's something that is available as a pdf on exactly this point

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjTyN2y-_vIAhXKOz4KHTlaBX4&url=https://pbsociety.org.pl/journals/index.php/asbp/article/download/asbp.1978.013/4115&usg=AFQjCNHVdVizLbGrh7EJdHgZ8S-GLawWKQ&sig2=li-6p4mvUvLznqaJpuSO3Q


    There is no available actual scientific information on the exact subject.
    I must therefor conclude that the effect of ethylene on seeds is something that could be possible and yet improbable!

    This is relegated to the list of Cannabis growing hype/myth in my book!

    IF you can find actual science to back up your conclusions - I will then believe this theory!

    DO NOT go back and list that BS Robert A. Nelson/Mobius Rex nonsense of a cut and paste job interspersed with complete nonfactual gibberish..

    Doc
Click to expand...
I did not say anything about seeds I said seedlings so basically you have backed what I'm saying
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top