Controlling through-the-roof medical costs

see4

Well-Known Member
Your statement is misleading and woefully inaccurate. Your understanding of a free market is lacking.

Can you describe to me how a regulated and licensed market is also a "free market" . You can't.

In a controlled market, (the present one) wherein prohibitions and / or regulatory hurdles are baked in, prices to the consumer will not reach their natural lowest point.

I submit as evidence the cost of marijuana to a retail consumer. In a heavily regulated market, prices remain artificially high.
If marijuana were decriminalized and unregulated, the prices would be SIGNIFICANTLY less.


I didn't even have to break a sweat to put the dunce cap on you. It fits you well

Do you even free market bro? Seriously.

If medicine and health were a completely unregulated free market system, there would be 1 billion people on the planet, not 7. Why? Because only those who could afford to be healthy would be alive and big business would just push them out of the way. Enter, Wal Mart, Best Buy, Macy's -- exit true free market business.
 

VTMi'kmaq

Well-Known Member
I have a doctor in my family, I could care less how many fun facts they can pack in there head before noon, savants do that too! American doctors are (98% egotistical assholes) just my opinion. Maybe its just university of vermont medical staff, boy are they assholes if you throw a problem at them they can't seem to figure out.
 

anzohaze

Well-Known Member
The part that scares me is even if this thing is repealed the price hikes leading up to Obamacare likely wont go down...at least not the price of medication

I mean...hopefully it will force the insurance rackets to lower prices in an attempt to compete, but for those of us like myself that are asthmatics....well....im fucked

hell...1 flowvent inhaler is $475 now
I beg the difference I have insurance and I have asthma I pay at 420 a month for just me with a $5,000 deductible and everything is 100% covered after that including copays so once I hit $5,000 I pay no more
 

FauxRoux

Well-Known Member
I beg the difference I have insurance and I have asthma I pay at 420 a month for just me with a $5,000 deductible and everything is 100% covered after that including copays so once I hit $5,000 I pay no more
You are correct. I'm in around the same ballpark. But if you've followed the price on the receipt for your albutoral and flowvent insurance is covering the difference. Albuteral went from $7 to $55 and Flowvent from $70 to $475..... What I'm saying is if Obamacare gets repealed do you really think the price is going to drop on those? Or do you think you will have to come out of pocket?

Keeping in mind the price hike came from the pharmaceutical manufacturer of those medications lobbying themselves under EPA regulations. They stated they needed to redesign the aerosol delivery system as it was not environmentally friendly. this allowed them to repatent the medication and charge what they like until the patent expires and people can start making a generic alternative again.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2011/07/cost-increase-asthma-inhalers-expensive
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
You are correct. I'm in around the same ballpark. But if you've followed the price on the receipt for your albutoral and flowvent insurance is covering the difference. Albuteral went from $7 to $55 and Flowvent from $70 to $475..... What I'm saying is if Obamacare gets repealed do you really think the price is going to drop on those? Or do you think you will have to come out of pocket?

Keeping in mind the price hike came from the pharmaceutical manufacturer of those medications lobbying themselves under EPA regulations. They stated they needed to redesign the aerosol delivery system as it was not environmentally friendly. this allowed them to repatent the medication and charge what they like until the patent expires and people can start making a generic alternative again.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2011/07/cost-increase-asthma-inhalers-expensive
Harvoni cost of treatment
90k
Same company sells overseas for 5k or less
 

anzohaze

Well-Known Member
What's the biggest l
Crock of shit with doctors is that there all practices. If the fuck up its sorry. In my case as many people's I have a auto shop and if we mess up were the worst liats ever but docs can screw up and never fix you the first time and its no. Iggie lets try again and then i will continually keep charing for there fucm ups. A doctor just proves they can sit in school. I mean fuck they have a database so if your patient Says this that and this they can put into a data base and give the most common problem with them...
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
Do you even free market bro? Seriously.

If medicine and health were a completely unregulated free market system, there would be 1 billion people on the planet, not 7. Why? Because only those who could afford to be healthy would be alive and big business would just push them out of the way. Enter, Wal Mart, Best Buy, Macy's -- exit true free market business.

Not really. In a free market, government protectionism would, by definition, cease to exist, otherwise it wouldn't BE a free market... which makes your faulty observations about Corporations "taking over" absurd.

Corporations, or more correctly, service providers, without government protectionism would have to provide good service at a competitive rate or somebody else will since the artificial constraints to enter a given market would have been lifted.
 

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
Not really. In a free market, government protectionism would, by definition, cease to exist, otherwise it wouldn't BE a free market... which makes your faulty observations about Corporations "taking over" absurd.

Corporations, or more correctly, service providers, without government protectionism would have to provide good service at a competitive rate or somebody else will since the artificial constraints to enter a given market would have been lifted.
Yeah...get rid of government altogether, right? Let's go back to smoke covering towns...rivers that are orange with waste, dead fish covering beaches...

If fucking corporations did the right things to begin with...you wouldn't need 'protectionism'...

But corporations think about profits first and second...and the hell with everything else...
 

FauxRoux

Well-Known Member
I have a doctor in my family, I could care less how many fun facts they can pack in there head before noon, savants do that too! American doctors are (98% egotistical assholes) just my opinion. Maybe its just university of vermont medical staff, boy are they assholes if you throw a problem at them they can't seem to figure out.
There has been some evidence that shows a much higher rate of psychopathic and sociopathic tendencies in surgeons, less so in doctors/nurses.

But go figure you can find a disproportionate number of assholes in professions where society places either alot of power or social standing in what you do combined with a huge income.(granted that's a huge generalization)

http://time.com/32647/which-professions-have-the-most-psychopaths-the-fewest/
 

see4

Well-Known Member
Not really. In a free market, government protectionism would, by definition, cease to exist, otherwise it wouldn't BE a free market... which makes your faulty observations about Corporations "taking over" absurd.

Corporations, or more correctly, service providers, without government protectionism would have to provide good service at a competitive rate or somebody else will since the artificial constraints to enter a given market would have been lifted.
You were able to completely misread what I wrote, or read it correctly but was utterly unable to fully grasp the ideas. That is my fault, I clearly was not able to spell it out for you in simple enough terms. Let me try again.

Business, more specifically, corporations exist to earn revenue by any means necessary; and government is there to make sure corporations do not earn that dollar in unscrupulous ways. Ya feel me so far bruh? Ok cool, moving along.

If government were to cease regulating and providing corporate oversight, more likely than not corporations would begin taking advantage of consumers, both informed and the not. And the idea that people would simply stop purchasing services or goods from those companies is simply absurd. Your notion of a free market, in that sense, is absurd. You may not agree, but are you still with me? Ok good.

Did you know, that at this very moment advertisers on national television are sending high frequency beeps that apps on your smart phone are picking up and sending back gathering consumer metrics without your knowledge? Would you argue that is a fair and just thing? Would you argue that government has no right to regulate that? Arstechnica -- read up on it. It's a nasty little discovery.

Anyway, I'm done. Viva la France!!
 

texasjack

Well-Known Member
a start would be listing the costs of all medical procedures and tests. Your average person has no idea. Second would be making everyone pay a percentage. The whole industry would instantly be forced to drop prices because no one could afford it.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Your statement is misleading and woefully inaccurate.
no.

we have the most free market type of healthcare system right now, and we pay the most and don't cover all of our citizens.

every single other wealthy, developed nation like ours has massive government control within the healthcare sector, and they all= pay less, and they all cover their citizens universally.

literally 100% of the evidence available works against your claim. since you have zero actual evidence, all you will be able to do is to spout off about some imaginary utopia in which your stupid ideas magically work after being sprinkled with libertarian pedophile pixie dust.

spare us.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Not really. In a free market, government protectionism would, by definition, cease to exist, otherwise it wouldn't BE a free market... which makes your faulty observations about Corporations "taking over" absurd.

Corporations, or more correctly, service providers, without government protectionism would have to provide good service at a competitive rate or somebody else will since the artificial constraints to enter a given market would have been lifted.
You can't believe the shit you type.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
So I went to the eye doctor last month. Routine 2 year check up. He is a good eye doctor and tries to provide the most recent up to date diagnostic tests...

His office got 3 new diagnostic testing machines since I was there 2 years ago. Each one cost as much as a Mercedes, and replaced older machines that cost as much as a Mercedes a few years ago...

I got retinal scans, peripheral vision scan test, retinal photos that are retained for future comparisons, special photos of inner eye blood vessels to check for macular degeneration, glaucoma checks, etc.

My insurance receipt came back with these procedures...over $900 they paid out...

This was good quality medical care... The office is compassionate to those who don't have insurance. They charge an uninsured patient $75 and they get the same tests I did. Those new diagnostic testing machines are sitting there...and the office uses them to check everyone, insurance or not, as they should...

So there's your rising medical costs...over $900 on med insurance payout for me...driving up the costs...for a simple eye check up

So, the question is...how can you improve the system/lower costs...?

Eliminate some of the diagnostic equipment?
Make the uninsured pay more (that they don't have) or refuse them service?
Tell the Dr. to charge me less...after he spent $100K on new equipment to better serve me and others?

Obviously, my medical insurance is paying for others who don't have it for whatever reason...
And doctors want the best medical equipment they can get...which is pricey
Somebody has to pay for it...what's the solution to this scenario that repeats itself in every medical field?
UNIVERSAL MEDICAL CARE AND COVERAGE. Then there will be no 'uninsured' patient who 'can't afford' to pay.

And before the haters pile in with pronouncements about how the wealthiest nation in human history would be bankrupted by such a scheme, might I suggest looking at the defense budget.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
The part that scares me is even if this thing is repealed the price hikes leading up to Obamacare likely wont go down...at least not the price of medication

I mean...hopefully it will force the insurance rackets to lower prices in an attempt to compete, but for those of us like myself that are asthmatics....well....im fucked

hell...1 flowvent inhaler is $475 now
One fellow asthma sufferer to another, I know how you feel.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
What we have in the US in the form of Obamacare was sold to us...by force...as UHC...but it is not. For it to be UHC it would need to be a set universal price, regulated to avoid taking advantage of the people by the pharmaceutical industry, which we are seeing in spades.

I'm liberal but I'm not stupid. Obama sold us out to big business on this one....one might argue it was to get our foot in the UHC door....but that might be giving him too much credit.
He tried to introduce universal health care and even his own party balked, remember? He passed the bill he COULD. Don't like it? Tell all your REPUBLICAN friends.
 
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