Russian jet shot down by Turkey

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/18/turkey-cut-islamic-state-supply-lines-erdogan-isis

In June, HDP success at the polls denied Erdoğan his parliamentary majority. Erdoğan’s response was ingenious. He called for new elections, declared he was “going to war” with Isis, made one token symbolic attack on them and then proceeded to unleash the full force of his military against PKK forces in Turkey and Iraq, while denouncing the HDP as “terrorist supporters” for their association with them.
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
turkey is known as a US way to get arms across to ISIS USA arms ISIS via through Turkey trains ISIS and rebels in TURKEY Russia is just flying close by letting everyone know WTF is going on :)
Do not for one minute think Putin will back away or do nothing Already USA, Turkey are worried as many US sponsered rebels are being cut off of there supplies, and russia already doing 100 sorties a day which will double 200 sorties shortly
Turkey and USA in reality are shitting there pants
The Pentagon will stop putting rebel fighters through training in neighboring countries, as these countries will be targeted by putin Nato or not ..
Putin made it clear when he talked about countries and yes even NATO countries supporting ISIS and the rebels which if he spills it out what are other countries to think then of USA turkey etc
Putin is going to gain popularity and people will join his cause once he shows who the real evil is This does not look to fucking good for USA
a program that was designed to ensure that fighters were properly vetted before they could get their hands on American weapons and ammunition. The new plan will simply funnel weapons through rebel leaders who are already in the fight and appear to be making some headway…..

Washington’s experience in Syria and other recent wars shows that proxy fighters are usually fickle and that weapons thrust into a war with no real oversight often end up having disastrous effects……..The initial plan was dubious. The new one is hallucinatory.
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
turkey is known as a US way to get arms across to ISIS USA arms ISIS via through Turkey trains ISIS and rebels in TURKEY Russia is just flying close by letting everyone know WTF is going on :)
Do not for one minute think Putin will back away or do nothing Already USA, Turkey are worried as many US sponsered rebels are being cut off of there supplies, and russia already doing 100 sorties a day which will double 200 sorties shortly
Turkey and USA in reality are shitting there pants
The Pentagon will stop putting rebel fighters through training in neighboring countries, as these countries will be targeted by putin Nato or not ..
Putin made it clear when he talked about countries and yes even NATO countries supporting ISIS and the rebels which if he spills it out what are other countries to think then of USA turkey etc
Putin is going to gain popularity and people will join his cause once he shows who the real evil is This does not look to fucking good for USA
a program that was designed to ensure that fighters were properly vetted before they could get their hands on American weapons and ammunition. The new plan will simply funnel weapons through rebel leaders who are already in the fight and appear to be making some headway…..

Washington’s experience in Syria and other recent wars shows that proxy fighters are usually fickle and that weapons thrust into a war with no real oversight often end up having disastrous effects……..The initial plan was dubious. The new one is hallucinatory.
Lots of unfounded conspiracies with, an anti USA slant.
Have anything that makes sense?
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
Lots of unfounded conspiracies with, an anti USA slant.
Have anything that makes sense?
Russia has been saying for a while it had some dirt on the US admin helping al quada and isis.

Would be an interesting day if they ever decided to share it.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
turkey is known as a US way to get arms across to ISIS USA arms ISIS via through Turkey trains ISIS and rebels in TURKEY Russia is just flying close by letting everyone know WTF is going on :)
Do not for one minute think Putin will back away or do nothing Already USA, Turkey are worried as many US sponsered rebels are being cut off of there supplies, and russia already doing 100 sorties a day which will double 200 sorties shortly
Turkey and USA in reality are shitting there pants
The Pentagon will stop putting rebel fighters through training in neighboring countries, as these countries will be targeted by putin Nato or not ..
Putin made it clear when he talked about countries and yes even NATO countries supporting ISIS and the rebels which if he spills it out what are other countries to think then of USA turkey etc
Putin is going to gain popularity and people will join his cause once he shows who the real evil is This does not look to fucking good for USA
a program that was designed to ensure that fighters were properly vetted before they could get their hands on American weapons and ammunition. The new plan will simply funnel weapons through rebel leaders who are already in the fight and appear to be making some headway…..

Washington’s experience in Syria and other recent wars shows that proxy fighters are usually fickle and that weapons thrust into a war with no real oversight often end up having disastrous effects……..The initial plan was dubious. The new one is hallucinatory.
Stopped reading after USA arms ISIS.
Crazy shit you read on the internet.
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Does anyone actually know why they made the imaginary no fly zone ??? the Turks made it clear they want to invade Syria from the North only if USA backs them with air support ,, USA is by no means ready to do this ,,
What turkey has done is possibly caused Russia to do something extremely drastic Don't kid your self if Russia ordered 500 missiles to be dropped on strategic spots in turkey, USA , Nato ?? would be back peddling and not joining in as fast as many think they would it would be re evaluation time ,, for NATO
like saying 911 bombing and few days later the bombing campaign in Iraq wat did NATO do ??? other then condemn USA they did nothing to stop it same thing will happen here
Turkey wants a war maybe Putin will give him one then we can see how Turkey cries to USA for back up
The Turks had indicated a long time ago that they were prepared to send forces in if the United States provided cover and support. So, we should create safe zones. We should create no-fly zones. We should enforce those for any planes that would threaten people in those areas, whether they’re Syrian planes or Russian planes. We should give the Russians full notice that any violations or attacks on those zones would constitute an attack that we would have to respond to.

Nobody wants this. There are bad decisions that have to be made here, but that’s where we are right now. And I think unless we do that, we will continue to see people get killed, we will continue to see people flee Syria, so there aren’t any good solutions. We have to find the least worst options.
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
Does anyone actually know why they made the imaginary no fly zone ??? the Turks made it clear they want to invade Syria from the North only if USA backs them with air support ,, USA is by no means ready to do this ,,
What turkey has done is possibly caused Russia to do something extremely drastic Don't kid your self if Russia ordered 500 missiles to be dropped on strategic spots in turkey, USA , Nato ?? would be back peddling and not joining in as fast as many think they would it would be re evaluation time ,, for NATO
like saying 911 bombing and few days later the bombing campaign in Iraq wat did NATO do ??? other then condemn USA they did nothing to stop it same thing will happen here
Turkey wants a war maybe Putin will give him one then we can see how Turkey cries to USA for back up
The Turks had indicated a long time ago that they were prepared to send forces in if the United States provided cover and support. So, we should create safe zones. We should create no-fly zones. We should enforce those for any planes that would threaten people in those areas, whether they’re Syrian planes or Russian planes. We should give the Russians full notice that any violations or attacks on those zones would constitute an attack that we would have to respond to.

Nobody wants this. There are bad decisions that have to be made here, but that’s where we are right now. And I think unless we do that, we will continue to see people get killed, we will continue to see people flee Syria, so there aren’t any good solutions. We have to find the least worst options.
You gonna supply links or just keep releasing mini novels?
 

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
Russia has been saying for a while it had some dirt on the US admin helping al quada and isis.

Would be an interesting day if they ever decided to share it.
Blah blah blah
Russia has 100s of billions in investments with Turkey.
They ain't gonna do shit
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
officials claimed a third incident on Monday, when an unidentified MiG-29 fighter jet locked its radar for four and a half minutes on eight Turkish F-16 jets that were on patrol on their side of the border, in apparent preparation to open fire.
(“US, NATO step up threats to Russia over Syria“, World Socialist Web Site)
This was no mistake. The only time a fighter pilot adopts these protocols is when he plans to take down an enemy plane. This was a message, and while it might have been over-the-heads of the politicians and the media but, I assure you, every general in the Turkish High-Command knows what’s it means. This is a wake-up call. Moscow is indicating that there’s a new sheriff in town and that Turkey had better behave itself or there’s going to be trouble. There’s not going to be any US-Turkey no-fly zone over North Syria, there’s not going to be any aerial attacks on Syrian sites from the Turkish side of the border, and there certainly is not going to be any ground invasion of Turkish troops into Syria. The Russian Aerospace Defence Forces now control the skies over Syria and they are determined to defend Syria’s sovereign borders. That’s the message. Period.
This is a good example of how “preemption” can actually prevent conflicts rather than starting them. By firing a shot over Turkey’s bow, Moscow has dampened Erdogan’s plan to annex part of N. Syria and declare it a “safe zone”. Turkey will have to scrap that plan now realizing that any attempt to seize-and-hold Syrian territory will trigger a swift and powerful Russian retaliation. Seen in this light, Russia’s incursion looks like an extremely effective way to prevent a broader war by simply telegraphing to potential adversaries what they can and can’t do. Simply put: Putin has rewritten the rules of the game in Syria and Erdogan had better comply or else. Here’s more on Turkey from Patrick Cockburn in The Independent:
A Turkish ground invasion into Syria, though still a possibility, would now be riskier with Russian aircraft operating in areas where Turkey would be most likely to launch an incursion.
The danger for the Turks is that they now have two Kurdish quasi-states, one in Syria and one in Iraq, immediately to the south. Worse, the Syrian-Kurdish one…is run by the Democratic Union Party (PYD) which is effectively the Syrian branch of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) which has been fighting the Turkish state since 1984. Any insurgency by the PKK in Kurdish areas in south-east Turkey in future will be strengthened by the fact that the PKK has a de facto state of its own.
It appears that Turkey’s four-year attempt to overthrow President Bashar al-Assad has failed. It is unclear what Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan can do about this since support from Nato is at this stage purely rhetorical. As for Turkey’s relations with Russia, Mr Erdogan says that any attack on Turkey is an attack on Nato and that “if Russia loses a friend like Turkey with whom it has co-operated on many issues, it will lose a lot.” But in Syria, at least, it appears that it is Turkey that is the loser.
(“Russia in Syria: Russian Radar Locks on to Turkish Fighter Jets“, The Unz Review)
Poor Erdogan. He rolled the dice and came up snake-eyes. He figured he could expand his would-be Ottoman Empire into Northern Syria, and now his dream is in a shambles. Should he deploy his warplanes to N Syria and openly challenge the Russian airforce? No, he’s not that foolish. He’s going to stay on his side of the border, stomp his feet, and lash out at “evil Putin”, but at the end of the day, he’ll do nothing.
And Washington’s not going to do anything either. Yes, Hillary and McCain have been calling for a no-fly zone over Syria, but that’s not going to happen. Putin won’t allow it and neither will the Security Council. And, on what pretext anyway? Is Obama really going to request a no-fly zone on the basis that Putin is killing “moderate” terrorists along with the “extreme” terrorists? That’s not a very compelling argument, in fact, even the American people are having a hard time swallowing that one. If Obama wants something from Putin, he’s going to have sit-down at a bargaining table and hash out a deal. So far, he has refused to do that, because he still thinks regime change is within his grasp. There are signs of this everywhere like this article in Turkey’s Today’s Zaman titled “İncirlik base to increase capacity by 2,250 to accommodate new personnel”:
A tent city within İncirlik has been undergoing reconstruction for modern prefabricated houses, which will host 2,250 US military personnel, the Doğan news agency reported on Friday. During the Gulf War of 1991, a tent city was established to accommodate military personnel serving with Operation Provide Comfort (OPC) and was shut down with the end of the OPC.
On Aug. 20, work began to transform the site of the tent city into a new area named “Patriot Town.” After construction is completed, the İncirlik base will have the largest capacity among the US bases in Europe…
The expansion of the İncirlik base’s capacity comes at a time when Russia has launched the biggest intervention in the Middle East in decades….Moscow’s intervention means the conflict in Syria has been transformed from a proxy war.. into an international conflict in which the world’s main military powers… are directly involved in fighting.
 

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Truth is do you think Putin will do nothing ??? i would think again It is very bad news for Turkey that a Russian jet was shot down. Putin will not leave this unanswered, he might retaliate in different ways, for example by cutting off Turkey’s natural gas supply from Russia over the winter. He might also choose to reply in kind, in a similarly aggressive manner in Syria. But one thing is certain: Putin will not stand for this
The option with the least fanfare — cutting off Turkey's supply of natural gas — could still seriously sting. Turkey gets "60 percent of its natural gas" from Russia, the country's "second-largest trading partner . With Turkey's "growing economy and little of its own energy supplies to fuel it
Turkey is heavily reliant — almost dependent — on Russia for natural gas imports
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
officials claimed a third incident on Monday, when an unidentified MiG-29 fighter jet locked its radar for four and a half minutes on eight Turkish F-16 jets that were on patrol on their side of the border, in apparent preparation to open fire.
(“US, NATO step up threats to Russia over Syria“, World Socialist Web Site)
This was no mistake. The only time a fighter pilot adopts these protocols is when he plans to take down an enemy plane. This was a message, and while it might have been over-the-heads of the politicians and the media but, I assure you, every general in the Turkish High-Command knows what’s it means. This is a wake-up call. Moscow is indicating that there’s a new sheriff in town and that Turkey had better behave itself or there’s going to be trouble. There’s not going to be any US-Turkey no-fly zone over North Syria, there’s not going to be any aerial attacks on Syrian sites from the Turkish side of the border, and there certainly is not going to be any ground invasion of Turkish troops into Syria. The Russian Aerospace Defence Forces now control the skies over Syria and they are determined to defend Syria’s sovereign borders. That’s the message. Period.
This is a good example of how “preemption” can actually prevent conflicts rather than starting them. By firing a shot over Turkey’s bow, Moscow has dampened Erdogan’s plan to annex part of N. Syria and declare it a “safe zone”. Turkey will have to scrap that plan now realizing that any attempt to seize-and-hold Syrian territory will trigger a swift and powerful Russian retaliation. Seen in this light, Russia’s incursion looks like an extremely effective way to prevent a broader war by simply telegraphing to potential adversaries what they can and can’t do. Simply put: Putin has rewritten the rules of the game in Syria and Erdogan had better comply or else. Here’s more on Turkey from Patrick Cockburn in The Independent:
A Turkish ground invasion into Syria, though still a possibility, would now be riskier with Russian aircraft operating in areas where Turkey would be most likely to launch an incursion.
The danger for the Turks is that they now have two Kurdish quasi-states, one in Syria and one in Iraq, immediately to the south. Worse, the Syrian-Kurdish one…is run by the Democratic Union Party (PYD) which is effectively the Syrian branch of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) which has been fighting the Turkish state since 1984. Any insurgency by the PKK in Kurdish areas in south-east Turkey in future will be strengthened by the fact that the PKK has a de facto state of its own.
It appears that Turkey’s four-year attempt to overthrow President Bashar al-Assad has failed. It is unclear what Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan can do about this since support from Nato is at this stage purely rhetorical. As for Turkey’s relations with Russia, Mr Erdogan says that any attack on Turkey is an attack on Nato and that “if Russia loses a friend like Turkey with whom it has co-operated on many issues, it will lose a lot.” But in Syria, at least, it appears that it is Turkey that is the loser.
(“Russia in Syria: Russian Radar Locks on to Turkish Fighter Jets“, The Unz Review)
Poor Erdogan. He rolled the dice and came up snake-eyes. He figured he could expand his would-be Ottoman Empire into Northern Syria, and now his dream is in a shambles. Should he deploy his warplanes to N Syria and openly challenge the Russian airforce? No, he’s not that foolish. He’s going to stay on his side of the border, stomp his feet, and lash out at “evil Putin”, but at the end of the day, he’ll do nothing.
And Washington’s not going to do anything either. Yes, Hillary and McCain have been calling for a no-fly zone over Syria, but that’s not going to happen. Putin won’t allow it and neither will the Security Council. And, on what pretext anyway? Is Obama really going to request a no-fly zone on the basis that Putin is killing “moderate” terrorists along with the “extreme” terrorists? That’s not a very compelling argument, in fact, even the American people are having a hard time swallowing that one. If Obama wants something from Putin, he’s going to have sit-down at a bargaining table and hash out a deal. So far, he has refused to do that, because he still thinks regime change is within his grasp. There are signs of this everywhere like this article in Turkey’s Today’s Zaman titled “İncirlik base to increase capacity by 2,250 to accommodate new personnel”:
A tent city within İncirlik has been undergoing reconstruction for modern prefabricated houses, which will host 2,250 US military personnel, the Doğan news agency reported on Friday. During the Gulf War of 1991, a tent city was established to accommodate military personnel serving with Operation Provide Comfort (OPC) and was shut down with the end of the OPC.
On Aug. 20, work began to transform the site of the tent city into a new area named “Patriot Town.” After construction is completed, the İncirlik base will have the largest capacity among the US bases in Europe…
The expansion of the İncirlik base’s capacity comes at a time when Russia has launched the biggest intervention in the Middle East in decades….Moscow’s intervention means the conflict in Syria has been transformed from a proxy war.. into an international conflict in which the world’s main military powers… are directly involved in fighting.
I assume this opinionated hack job has a change of view now that Turkey shot that aircraft the fuck down. Next time please leave link to were you got your copy/paste job from. Sucks having to go find an article written in October.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/10/09/putins-endgame-in-syria/
 

OddBall1st

Well-Known Member
Obama sides with Turkey.....


...Did anyone think otherwise ?

The US, France and Russia are all on track to fight ISIS at home in Syria. The US has been at it for the longest. For the US to say Turkey has a right to shoot a war plane conducting that business on the Turkish border in it`s defense, while knowing full well that the plane was no threat to Turkey anything,.....is assisting ISIS by way of ISIS close support in Turkey.

He`s an asshole.....A Presidential asshole.

Anybody hear from the save our ass meeting Turkey called a few hours ago ?
 
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