Russian jet shot down by Turkey

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
He hasn't provoked anything. It's patently clear the Turks did this to provoke Russia. They're upset that Russia is actually making life difficult for ISIS who has been both fighting the Kurds and the Assad regime at the same time. They had news cameras setup to film the whole thing for christ sakes before hand. Their whole story is crap too. The plane would have stalled if it lingered in that area as long as claimed. These planes must travel at high speeds because they have very low surface area. And the plane landed 4km inside Syrian territory. NATO provoked Russia in Ukraine too backing a Neo Nazi led coupe.

More over NATO rules of engagement do NOT allow for this kind of aggressive action. And aggressive nations do not have the backing of NATO. The rules for border incursions - because they happen accidentally all the time - is if the plane has a clear exit path and is not lingering there is no justification for response and even if you're going to shoot you're supposed to warn them.

They claim to have warned them 10 times in 18 seconds :rolleyes:

Russia has pretty much made it clear they will not submit to US hegemony. So has China. Who are also being provoked in the pacific quite dramatically.
Russia signed a treaty of eternal nonaggression WITH UKRAINE, along with the United States and Great Britain. My father (career state department officer) was deeply involved in the negotiations, which included dismantling Ukraine's nuclear missile force and promising to reprocess and burn all the nuclear material in our nuclear power plants. We've been living up to every detail of our agreement for almost twenty years.

So you got that backwards.

Now, China has dramatically changed its stance in the South China Sea and aggressively seeks to control territory that it never claimed before. This makes them an 'aggressor'. You really need an education.

Clown shoes.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Sure you wasn't there :roll:
You just happen to know exactly how it was done. Arson seems to be your area of expertise.
Yeah, me and anyone else who can read the newspaper or watch the news on TV. Still not going to even attempt to defend your lies anymore?
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Yeah, me and anyone else who can read the newspaper or watch the news on TV. Still not going to even attempt to defend your lies anymore?
Red why does everyone who loves you end up dead ? Whats the best way to burn people up in a fire, please tell us again
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
Actually, it is all correct. Pretending you can't be bothered when the truth is you are unable is just another example of your dishonesty. It's like dealing with a child........
Before US intervention Iraq was a mainly secular state, when the US got involved Saddam used Islam to rally the people against the Americans.

Quit the bullshit Fox Spin, facts don't give a shit whether you believe them or not.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Before US intervention Iraq was a mainly secular state, when the US got involved Saddam used Islam to rally the people against the Americans.

Quit the bullshit Fox Spin, facts don't give a shit whether you believe them or not.
He used nationalism, not religion. Facts are an unknown to you. Lies are lies, even when you've convinced yourself they're true.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Something about pouring gas under the front door if I remember correctly...
So, you don't like my answer and feel compelled to answer for me. This is why nobody but a fool would believe anything you say.
@schuylaar.... This is where you're supposed to say "I believe him" and prove my point for me.
 

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Something about pouring gas under the front door if I remember correctly...
Yeah that's it.
He used something to guide the gas/fuel under the door quickly. Red might be the dumbest here on RIU, but he sure can burn down his trailer and family and get away with it
 

Harrekin

Well-Known Member
So, you don't like my answer and feel compelled to answer for me. This is why nobody but a fool would believe anything you say.
@schuylaar.... This is where you're supposed to say "I believe him" and prove my point for me.
You deleted the post so I'm just reminding Londonfog of your (in)famous method.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
The fucking irony of that statement.

Shouldn't you be at your Ayrian Brotherhood meeting?
Pretty sure my Jewish name would disqualify me for membership. Seems you never argue with my actual statements, but with statements that you try to pretend I made.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
You still crying? I don't care enough to care.
You still lying? You obviously do care. It ain't like trying to pretend you have somehow caused me to cry is demonstrative of not caring. In fact, it demonstrates quit the opposite.
 

OGEvilgenius

Well-Known Member
Russia signed a treaty of eternal nonaggression WITH UKRAINE, along with the United States and Great Britain. My father (career state department officer) was deeply involved in the negotiations, which included dismantling Ukraine's nuclear missile force and promising to reprocess and burn all the nuclear material in our nuclear power plants. We've been living up to every detail of our agreement for almost twenty years.

So you got that backwards.

Now, China has dramatically changed its stance in the South China Sea and aggressively seeks to control territory that it never claimed before. This makes them an 'aggressor'. You really need an education.

Clown shoes.
China has always laid claim to all these different areas. They still lay claim to parts of fucking Thailand. They are aggressive about what they view as their own territory.

Unless the deal includes the option to overthrow the democratically elected government with a coup led by Neo Nazi's and financed by outside influences then I don't think you have. Your obvious biases not withstanding.

The leak of a pirated U.S. diplomatic phone call involving plots to install new leaders in the Ukraine created an extraordinary embarrassment for the United States and illustrated the dangers of pervasive surveillance.

The call involved U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Victoria Nuland, left, one of the country's most prominent diplomats for years. She is connected to the bipartisan neo-con / neo-liberal movement that her Kagan family helps lead along with such powerful media conduits as the Washington Post.

Nuland can be heard saying "F__ the E.U." on the call to U.S. Ambassador to the Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt, right, as they ponder moves to pressure the Ukraine's pro-Russia government and the European Union in hopes of new, Western-aligned leadership for the Ukraine.

Nuland and Pyatt dismissed the prospects for dissident leader Vitali Klitschko, a former world champion heavyweight boxer, to assume a top post in the government.

“I don’t think it’s necessary,” Nuland said. “I don’t think it’s a good idea.” Pyatt agreed.

Also, they briefly mention United Nations Secretary-Generation Ban Ki-moon, with the seeming implication he is a willing ally if not functionary in their plans to reorient the Ukraine's leadership.

"State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki acknowledged that the recording was authentic and said Nuland had apologized to E.U. officials. But U.S. officials were also quick to point the finger at Russia, which has bristled at U.S. involvement in Ukraine," the Washington Post reported. "The recording surfaced on YouTube on Thursday, just as Nuland arrived in Ukraine for talks. It was also widely viewed on a Russian-language Web site, where it appeared online along with a photo montage of Nuland, Pyatt, and opposition figures. The Russian caption reads, 'Puppets of the Maidan,' the colloquial name for Kiev’s Independence Square."

My new book Presidential Puppetry: Obama Romney and Their Masters devotes significant attention to the bipartisan role of the Nuland and the Kagan family in diplomatic affairs, especially in fostering wars and anti-Russian efforts in the Mideast and the former Soviet republics.

Nuland's husband is Robert Kagan, a think tank scholar, Washington Post columnist and one of the most prominent early advocates (beginning in the mid-1990s) of a United States war against Iraq. The Bush administration launched that war in 2003.

Nuland served during that Bush administration at the State Department. After President Obama's election she continued as the main spokeswoman for Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.



This week's controversy in the Ukraine arose after President Viktor Yanukovych last fall left a trade partnership with the European Union.

He said the country would join a Russian economic alliance instead. "That offer came with a $15 billion loan that U.S. and European officials came close to calling a bribe," the Post has reported.

Nuland, in the phone call, offers to arrange for Vice President Biden, right, to pressure Yanukovych to compromises.



The vice president would give an “attaboy,” Nuland said. Beltway insiders, if no one else, would note how confident Nuland was in predicting if not planning the actions of Biden, ostensibly her superior. The Drudge Report, by coincidence, circulated Feb. 7 a story that Biden was inclined to run for the presidency in 2016 because he could not foresee a reason to rule it out.

Surveillance Age Diplomacy
State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the United States is not trying to influence the political outcome.

“It shouldn’t be a surprise," Psaki said, "that at any point there have been discussions about recent events and offers and what is happening on the ground.”

Publicly, the United States insists that the Ukraine public should decide its internal affairs. However, Nuland made a show of handing out donuts to anti-government demonstrators in December. More important, Nuland's remarks released Feb. 6 conveyed -- as only a tape recording can do -- a tone of arrogance and other authority as a decision-maker.
http://www.justice-integrity.org/faq/627-top-u-s-diplomat-caught-on-tape-in-profane-plot

It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war
Seumas Milne

The threat of war in Ukraine is growing. As the unelected government in Kiev declares itself unable to control the rebellion in the country's east, John Kerry brands Russia a rogue state. The US and the European Union step up sanctions against the Kremlin, accusing it of destabilising Ukraine. The White House is reported to be set on a new cold war policy with the aim of turning Russia into a "pariah state".

That might be more explicable if what is going on in eastern Ukraine now were not the mirror image of what took place in Kiev a couple of months ago. Then, it was armed protesters in Maidan Square seizing government buildings and demanding a change of government and constitution. US and European leaders championed the "masked militants" and denounced the elected government for its crackdown, just as they now back the unelected government's use of force against rebels occupying police stations and town halls in cities such as Slavyansk and Donetsk.

"America is with you," Senator John McCain told demonstrators then, standing shoulder to shoulder with the leader of the far-right Svoboda party as the US ambassador haggled with the state department over who would make up the new Ukrainian government.

When the Ukrainian president was replaced by a US-selected administration, in an entirely unconstitutional takeover, politicians such as William Hague brazenly misled parliament about the legality of what had taken place: the imposition of a pro-western government on Russia's most neuralgic and politically divided neighbour.

Putin bit back, taking a leaf out of the US street-protest playbook – even though, as in Kiev, the protests that spread from Crimea to eastern Ukraine evidently have mass support. But what had been a glorious cry for freedom in Kiev became infiltration and insatiable aggression in Sevastopol and Luhansk.

After Crimeans voted overwhelmingly to join Russia, the bulk of the western media abandoned any hint of even-handed coverage. So Putin is now routinely compared to Hitler, while the role of the fascistic right on the streets and in the new Ukrainian regime has been airbrushed out of most reporting as Putinist propaganda.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

I can pull an article from the CFR saying essentially the same thing.

The US has the most aggressive foreign policy in the world, by far. Russia has been a relative isolationist but they have been forced into many bad situations because it seems really apparent that US leadership wants a large scale conflict.
 

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
China has always laid claim to all these different areas. They still lay claim to parts of fucking Thailand. They are aggressive about what they view as their own territory.

Unless the deal includes the option to overthrow the democratically elected government with a coup led by Neo Nazi's and financed by outside influences then I don't think you have. Your obvious biases not withstanding.



http://www.justice-integrity.org/faq/627-top-u-s-diplomat-caught-on-tape-in-profane-plot



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

I can pull an article from the CFR saying essentially the same thing.

The US has the most aggressive foreign policy in the world, by far. Russia has been a relative isolationist but they have been forced into many bad situations because it seems really apparent that US leadership wants a large scale conflict.
Just because China makes a territorial claim doesn't mean it's automatically valid.

I'll agree that the United States definitely does want to pick fights, because it's profitable to those who have the most influence over our politicians.

If you don't like this, and I certainly don't, then it's time to stop parroting Ruin Paul and find a candidate who's actually talking about effective solutions.

He's not hard to find; Bernie Sanders is the ONLY one.
 
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